Halachic question it may seem very funny

[mord]

My Brother has been taking care for his friends Donkey,his friend said he would be back in 4 months it's now been a yr. and his friend is somewhere in Europe or mid east.Now my brother is sick of paying for the upkeep food ,lodging.He ask a Rabbi what should he do.The Rabbi said break his neck my brother said when my friend comes back i will.The Rabbi said not your friends neck the donkeys neck.I told my brother the Rabbi is either fooling or a mental case,he said no the Rabbi is serious

[Zelhar]

Is it your brother mord ? if so I really hope he doesn't listen to that cruel rabbi.

[muman613]

My Brother has been taking care for his friends Donkey,his friend said he would be back in 4 months it's now been a yr. and his friend is somewhere in Europe or mid east.Now my brother is sick of paying for the upkeep food ,lodging.He ask a Rabbi what should he do.The Rabbi said break his neck my brother said when my friend comes back i will.The Rabbi said not your friends neck the donkeys neck.I told my brother the Rabbi is either fooling or a mental case,he said no the Rabbi is serious

I would be interested in what the halachic basis of that decision is... I have never heard that..

[mord]

I would be interested in what the halachic basis of that decision is... I have never heard that..

I have no idea but my brother won't do it.

[Daniel Michael ben Avraham]

I do not think that Rabbi has a halachic foot to stand on at all.

As far as your brother goes, he may have a situation where the agreement to care for his friends donkey for 4 months constitutes a verbal contract.  In that case he may have grounds to charge him for the care of the donkey after the 4 months.  I would suggest he consult with a qualified Posek regarding this matter and not just some LOR.  Monetary matters between Jews are serious things that need to be handled with care in order to be 100% correct according to Hashem's will.

If the Posek agrees that your brother may charge his friend after the 4 months is up, then I am sure he will be obligated to inform his friend and give him the option of paying what his due and recover the animal or agree to continue to pay for upkeep of the animal as per a mutually recognized payment plan.  Of course it goes without saying that all of this would have to be carefully constructed so that your brother never charges interest.

I hope some of these ideas help,
דניאל מיכאל בן אברהם

[mord]

I do not think that Rabbi has a halachic foot to stand on at all.

As far as your brother goes, he may have a situation where the agreement to care for his friends donkey for 4 months constitutes a verbal contract.  In that case he may have grounds to charge him for the care of the donkey after the 4 months.  I would suggest he consult with a qualified Posek regarding this manner and not just some LOR.  Monetary matters between Jews are serious things that need to be handled with care in order to be 100% correct according to Hashem's will.

If the Posek agrees that your brother may charge his friend after the 4 months is up, then I am sure he will be obligated to inform his friend and give him the option of paying what his due and recover the animal or agree to continue to pay for upkeep of the animal as per a mutually recognized payment plan.  Of course it goes without saying that all of this would have to be carefully constructed so that your brother never charges interest.

I hope some of these ideas help,
דניאל מיכאל בן אברהם

Yes my brother has no intention of killing it anyhow

[muman613]

There is a positive commandment concerning redeeming a donkey:

http://www.chabad.org/kids/article_cdo/aid/8485/jewish/Positive-Commandment-82.htm

Positive Commandment 82
Breaking the Neck of an Unredeemed First-born Donkey

   

Exodus 34:20 "And if you do not redeem it, you shall break its neck"

The owner of a first-born donkey, who does not redeem it, prevents the priest from receiving his due.

He cannot benefit from this animal and is commanded to kill it by breaking its neck.


http://www.neveh.org/winston/pesach/pesach01.html

[jbeige]

Why doesn't your brother try to find a home for it, maybe he can give it to a petting zoo or something like that.
If you don't mind me asking where is the donkey located?

[cjd]

There is a positive commandment concerning redeeming a donkey:

http://www.chabad.org/kids/article_cdo/aid/8485/jewish/Positive-Commandment-82.htm

Positive Commandment 82
Breaking the Neck of an Unredeemed First-born Donkey

   

Exodus 34:20 "And if you do not redeem it, you shall break its neck"

The owner of a first-born donkey, who does not redeem it, prevents the priest from receiving his due.

He cannot benefit from this animal and is commanded to kill it by breaking its neck.


http://www.neveh.org/winston/pesach/pesach01.html

What do they mean by "Unredeemed" ?

[muman613]

Here is an explanation of the Mitzvah of Redeeming the Donkey:



http://www.torah.org/learning/livinglaw/5766/bo.html

Parshas Bo
Petter Chamor: Drop the Dead Donkey

The Mitzvah: The Torah commands an Israelite to redeem the first issue of his donkey with a lamb or kid. The owner "redeems" his animal by giving a lamb in lieu of his donkey, or the monetary equivalent, to the priest. The owner cannot gain any benefit from this animal. If the donkey is not redeemed, it has to be killed by axing the back of its neck (Exodus 13:13).

The sanctity of a firstborn relates to the precursor to the Exodus: the Tenth Plague that struck the Egyptians. All the firstborns were killed on that fateful night with the exception of the Jewish firstborns. As a result, the firstborns - both man and kosher animal - were sanctified before G-d.

Curiously, the only non-kosher animal subject to the laws of a firstborn is the donkey.

The promiscuous climate of Egypt is synonymous with that of the donkey; in the words of the prophet, "whose flesh is the flesh of donkeys" (Ezekiel 23:20). The word chamor, donkey is symbol of chomor, materialism, of unbridled indulgence in animalistic, physical desires unchecked or governed by the intellect to give it direction, form and purpose.

The donkey is a non-kosher, lowly animal. And the Jewish nation in Egypt descended to a spiritual low - down to the forty-ninth level of spiritual impurity. Almost at the point of no return, nevertheless they were not "irredeemable". This is in line with the principle that a person should never despair from achieving divine mercy. With repentance, the penitent is able to catapult himself onto a higher echelon than the complete righteous (Talmud, Berachos 34).

The juxtaposition of this mitzvah to the Exodus recalls the Death of the Firstborn. This mitzvah symbolically captures the transformation of the Jewish people in the run up to their redemption.

The "Egyptian" donkey is redeemed by the lamb, a kosher animal that is an analogy for Israel tendered by their Heavenly Shepherd (Ezekiel 34:31; ibid 36:37-38). Their sanctity came to the fore in their "redemption" from Egypt wherein they revoked their "materialistic" donkey-like status upon becoming the chosen nation - with a new "form" living with Torah and mitzvos acknowledging "G-d is My Shepherd" (Psalms 23).

Should the owner refuse to redeem his animal, the donkey is to be axed from the back of the neck, the nape. Noam HaMitzvos explains that this symbolizes the wicked that are "stiff-necked" (see e.g. Exodus 33:3: "you are a stiff-necked people) and their unwillingness to repent from their misdeeds. The wicked are "dead" from a spiritual perspective even when still alive (See Talmud Berachos 18). In the same way that it is forbidden to stare at an evil man (Talmud Megillah 27), accordingly, the irredeemable donkey that will not be transferred into a sheep, is killed from behind making it unnecessary to see its face.

One cannot just "drop the dead donkey". Every one of us has the ability to draw away from our past sins, to sanctity ourselves as the holy firstborn - the Jewish nation itself called G-d's Firstborn (Exodus 4:22). However low we may have fallen, we are never irredeemable. With repentance and the transition, we sanctify ourselves and await the future impending redemption from our present exile.

[cjd]

Here is an explanation of the Mitzvah of Redeeming the Donkey:



http://www.torah.org/learning/livinglaw/5766/bo.html

Parshas Bo
Petter Chamor: Drop the Dead Donkey

The Mitzvah: The Torah commands an Israelite to redeem the first issue of his donkey with a lamb or kid. The owner "redeems" his animal by giving a lamb in lieu of his donkey, or the monetary equivalent, to the priest. The owner cannot gain any benefit from this animal. If the donkey is not redeemed, it has to be killed by axing the back of its neck (Exodus 13:13).

The sanctity of a firstborn relates to the precursor to the Exodus: the Tenth Plague that struck the Egyptians. All the firstborns were killed on that fateful night with the exception of the Jewish firstborns. As a result, the firstborns - both man and kosher animal - were sanctified before G-d.

Curiously, the only non-kosher animal subject to the laws of a firstborn is the donkey.

The promiscuous climate of Egypt is synonymous with that of the donkey; in the words of the prophet, "whose flesh is the flesh of donkeys" (Ezekiel 23:20). The word chamor, donkey is symbol of chomor, materialism, of unbridled indulgence in animalistic, physical desires unchecked or governed by the intellect to give it direction, form and purpose.

The donkey is a non-kosher, lowly animal. And the Jewish nation in Egypt descended to a spiritual low - down to the forty-ninth level of spiritual impurity. Almost at the point of no return, nevertheless they were not "irredeemable". This is in line with the principle that a person should never despair from achieving divine mercy. With repentance, the penitent is able to catapult himself onto a higher echelon than the complete righteous (Talmud, Berachos 34).

The juxtaposition of this mitzvah to the Exodus recalls the Death of the Firstborn. This mitzvah symbolically captures the transformation of the Jewish people in the run up to their redemption.

The "Egyptian" donkey is redeemed by the lamb, a kosher animal that is an analogy for Israel tendered by their Heavenly Shepherd (Ezekiel 34:31; ibid 36:37-38). Their sanctity came to the fore in their "redemption" from Egypt wherein they revoked their "materialistic" donkey-like status upon becoming the chosen nation - with a new "form" living with Torah and mitzvos acknowledging "G-d is My Shepherd" (Psalms 23).

Should the owner refuse to redeem his animal, the donkey is to be axed from the back of the neck, the nape. Noam HaMitzvos explains that this symbolizes the wicked that are "stiff-necked" (see e.g. Exodus 33:3: "you are a stiff-necked people) and their unwillingness to repent from their misdeeds. The wicked are "dead" from a spiritual perspective even when still alive (See Talmud Berachos 18). In the same way that it is forbidden to stare at an evil man (Talmud Megillah 27), accordingly, the irredeemable donkey that will not be transferred into a sheep, is killed from behind making it unnecessary to see its face.

One cannot just "drop the dead donkey". Every one of us has the ability to draw away from our past sins, to sanctity ourselves as the holy firstborn - the Jewish nation itself called G-d's Firstborn (Exodus 4:22). However low we may have fallen, we are never irredeemable. With repentance and the transition, we sanctify ourselves and await the future impending redemption from our present exile.

All this has a much deeper meaning than just doing away with a poor donkey... I am surprised that the Torah gives the donkey such a low standing among animals... The poor beast was a very useful animal in the days before the machine age... I am quite surprised that the Jewish sages saw animals like this in such a dim light... I am sure that we are to come away from this passage with something more than just the elimination  of a donkey.

[muman613]

All this has a much deeper meaning than just doing away with a poor donkey... I am surprised that the Torah gives the donkey such a low standing among animals... The poor beast was a very useful animal in the days before the machine age... I am quite surprised that the Jewish sages saw animals like this in such a dim light... I am sure that we are to come away from this passage with something more than just the elimination  of a donkey.

Yes indeed. The intention of redeeming first borns is to sanctify them... Originally the first born Jews had the status of the Kohen, but after the sin of the golden calf the Kehuna/Priesthood was removed from them and given to the descendants of Aaron {Moses brother}. The Levites were the one tribe which did not participate in the sin of the golden calf...

[muman613]

Here is more explanation of the symbolism of the Donkey:




http://ravkooktorah.org/BO_67.htm

Bo: Donkey-Holiness

Immediately before leaving Egypt, the Israelites were commanded to commemorate the final plague of makkat bechorot, the death of the first-born, by consecrating the firstborn:

"When Pharaoh stubbornly refused to let us leave, G-d killed all the first-born in Egypt, both man and beast. I therefore offer to G-d all male firstling animals, and redeem all the first-born of my sons." (Ex. 13:15)

This mitzvah applies not only to people, but also to kosher animals, and — surprisingly — first-born donkeys: "Every firstling donkey must be redeemed with a sheep" (Ex. 13:13).

Why does this holiness of the firstborn apply to donkeys?

The firstborn holiness of donkeys is even more surprising when we consider that these animals are 100% impure. Some non-kosher animals, such as camels and pigs, have only one sign of impurity. Donkeys, however, carry both signs of impurity. The Zohar teaches that the donkey is avi avot hatumah, the ultimate source of impurity.

In addition, 16th century Rabbi Judah Loew ben Bezalel, the Maharal of Prague, noted that the Hebrew word for donkey (chamur) is the same as the word for material (chomer). The donkey, he explained, is a symbol of crassness and physicality (Gevurot Hashem, ch. 29).

So why did the Torah designate this ignoble creature to have the special holiness of bechor that must be redeemed?

Hidden Holiness

One explanation proposed by the Sages in Bechorot 5b is that the donkeys helped facilitate the Exodus as they carried the treasures of Egyptian gold and silver. Yet the Israelites could have used some other pack animal. It would appear that there is something special about the donkey, that it represents an inner truth about the redemption of the Jewish people, both in Egypt and in the future national rebirth of the Messianic Era.

The Israelites in Egypt had sunk to the lowest levels of immorality and impurity. Outwardly, they were indistinguishable from their Egyptian masters. Even the angels were unable to distinguish between the two nations. They questioned G-d's decision to save the Israelites at the Red Sea, protesting, "These are idol worshippers and these are idol worshippers!"

But like the donkey, the impurity of the Jewish people was only on the surface, hiding a great inner holiness. It was a superficial blemish, as it says, "Do not look upon me that I am black; for (it is only) the sun that has tanned me" (Song of Songs 1:6).

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[Daniel Michael ben Avraham]

What does redeeming a first born donkey have to do with his brother's case?

[muman613]

What does redeeming a first born donkey have to do with his brother's case?

That is a good question. Maybe the Rabbi was making a reference to this command... I don't know if the donkey is a first-born... Maybe it was intended as a joke? This is the only mention of 'breaking a donkeys neck' out of all the 613 commandments so I'm pretty sure that the Rabbi was referring to it..

[Dr. Dan]

Aren't democrats symbolized by the donkey?

[mord]

Aren't democrats symbolized by the donkey?

Great point I'll tell my brother to break a dems neck  My brother isn't going to do that he'll either find a petting zoo no not among slutty leftists girls but a real petting zoo or pay the upkeep

[Rubystars]

When I first read this I thought it was the filter that changed the word to donkey but then when I read on I realized you were talking about an actual donkey! Donkeys are cute animals. I certainly hope no harm comes to this one and I'm glad you said he won't harm it. I know taking care of a large animal like that can be expensive though. Maybe he could charge for donkey rides? He might have to get insurance for that though.