The Zohar Definitely Was Written By Rashbi

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I was actually talking about people today.   Especially your local kabbalist who SP apparently went to to "find out" if the Zohar was kosher.

[q_q_]

<snip> 
 I am no way saying Ramban knew modern science or predicted the big bang theory or e=mc squared or anything even close.   That would be ridiculous. 

In theory. Do you think that a legitimate mystic can know things in great detail.  Things that he couldn't have known by any natural means.  Things that scientists learn hundreds of years later by experimentation.

Do you think there are legitimate mystics?

<snip>

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

It was written by Rashbi but only redacted in the times of the Amoraim?   Since when is this what kabbalists believe?  And even if that was the case, that contradicts what Moshe  De Leon claimed and what even you and the kabbalist here claim.   That means it was NOT written by Shimon Bar Yochai, if it was REDACTED IN A LATER PERIOD BY DIFFERENT PEOPLE!

Rabbi Menachem Mendel Kasher has a long responsa on the issue, if I'm not mistaken. I'll try to find it

[edu]

First an introduction.
During the days of Rabbi Moshe Chaim Luzatto, {Ramchal} there was strong opposition from Rabbis in his area, over his kabbalistic writings. My assumption is that they were worried about the rise of another variation of Sabbateanism.
So towards the end of his life, because of the pressures put on him, Rabbi Luzatto decided to write books without reference to Kabbalistic sources, which became very popular in the Jewish world.
One of these books is called Daat Utvunote- Translated into English as the Knowing Heart.
According to Rabbi Triebitz in an audio lecture found at the web site http://hashkafacircle.com/  this book of Rabbi Luzatto seemed to be Mussar or Hashkafa books, however, Rabbi Triebitz  claims that those familiar with the Kabbalistic writings of Rabbi Luzatto will see very clearly that this book is a reflection of his Kabbalistic views.

Now one of the arguments made by the defenders of the Zohar is that because it deals with the secrets of Torah it was not made public to large segments of the Torah world until the time of Rabbi Moshe de Leon (in what secularists call the middle ages). But if so, I would at least expect to see a hidden reflection of the Zohar's ideas in the words of the Torah Giants, such as Rabbi Saadia Gaon and Rambam in the centuries that preceded the revelation of the Zohar to the mainstream. Unlike the writings of Rabbi Luzatto where we find such a reflection, we don't really find them in the writings of those Torah Giants.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

http://machonshilo.org/en/eng/list-ask-the-rav/61-talmudh-tora-education/564-did-r-shimon-bar-yohai-write-the-zohar
Did R. Shimon Bar Yohai Write the Zohar?

Question

Dear Kavod HaRav, Shalom U'Brachot.

What do you think about the Zohar's authenticity? Do you recognize it as the Holy Zohar/ Zohar HaKadosh or do you reject the claim that it comes from the Tanna Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai?

Response

1. The Zohar literature, which includes the Zohar, Zohar Hadash, Midrash HaNe'elam, Tiqune Zohar and several other works, was written, almost certainly by different authors, in 13th century Spain. None of it was written during Mishnaic or even Talmudic times. Much has been written on the subject, including the seminal work of the Ya'abess (R. Ya'aqov Emden) z'l, Mittpahath S’pharim (http://hebrewbooks.org/33319), written some 250 years ago, in which he adduces copious and convincing proof that the Zohar was written in Spain during the period of the Rishonim. Certain parties have endeavoured, with no small success, to make this book unavailable; this should tell you something about the book’s power. For those familiar with the works of the Ya’abess this will come as no surprise. A new edition was printed by HaRav Ben-Ssiyon Kohen z’l of Jerusalem about 15 years ago.

2. I will mention just one example of such proof. According to the Zohar (Sh’moth 48b) the T’kheleth dye was produced from the Hilazon (sea snail) that is found in the Kinereth. In the first place this contradicts Hazal who state (TB Shabath 26a) that the Hilazon is to be found along the Mediterranean coast. Secondly, it contradicts what was common knowledge in the ancient Mediterranean basin regarding the source of this and similar dyes, as described in Greek (Aristotle) and Roman (Pliny the Elder, Natural History, 9: 60-65) sources. Thirdly, no such creature does or can exist in the Kinereth or any body of fresh water, a fact mentioned by Pliny. Fourthly, only a Jewish mystic living and dreaming in 13th century Spain could have been so ignorant of what was common knowledge in Eress Yisrael in the days of Hazal.

3. For those whose perception and understanding of Tora is based upon misinformation, this truth is a bitter pill to swallow. To a person who has invested years, perhaps a lifetime, pursuing a phantom, this will come as a great shock. This is only to be expected. If you discuss this matter with such people and sense their inability to deal with the matter rationally, you might consider changing the subject.

4. The teachings of the Zohar range from profound to inane, from insightful and enlightening to misleading and even heretical. It should only be studied by those of superior intellect who have dedicated themselves for many years to the in-depth study of Tora based on the primary sources. The capacity for critical thought and caution are essential. The masses are to discouraged from studying it.

Rabbi David Bar-Hayim

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

"If you want examples of incorrect messianic predictions by Kabbalists, tell me. I have a list a mile long"

 Please list them here or send them to me.

[muman613]

What Kabbalah I have learned, and that which comes from the Zohar many times, does not contradict the teaching of the Torah, and often it is supported in Mishnah and Talmud. I am not an expert, nor have I studied Zohar, but it is referred to in a lot of Chassidic teachings.

You are entitled to discount the entire corpus of Kabbalah if you like, as it is not essential to live a righteous life. But there is truth in what little Kabbalah I have learned, and I am not quick to discount it.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

What Kabbalah I have learned, and that which comes from the Zohar many times, does not contradict the teaching of the Torah, and often it is supported in Mishnah and Talmud. I am not an expert, nor have I studied Zohar, but it is referred to in a lot of Chassidic teachings.

You are entitled to discount the entire corpus of Kabbalah if you like, as it is not essential to live a righteous life. But there is truth in what little Kabbalah I have learned, and I am not quick to discount it.

 Not everything is wrong or even bad. Its just that the proper teacher can and should bring out the proper and good teachings. I myself learn from all different types of schools of though, some Hassidus as well (Breslov, Chabad (R' Ginsburg) the problems arise when you take everything in and don't question some possible problems with things. Also some people using certain things like "Kabbalah" for their personal use. - Just check today's "Mekubalim" tricking gullible people in following them (Paying $ as well).
 I was at your position as well for some time so I understand. Their are (and will be) transition periods with your thoughts and beliefs. Just be careful not to (accidentally) reject the Torah and Halacha because of association to these ideas. (You can disagree and that is fine, but I only predict).