IDF VS settlers

[Yaakov Mendel]

Or another solution instead of the local Rabbi, first email Rav Bar Chaim Shalitta. He is very logical and exact in the Halacha (Very trustworthy and able to bring the correct Halacha and solution).
 Find his info. @ Machonshilo.org

Thanks, I will ask him.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

I know the Halacha. I am not such an ignoramus on Judaism. I wanted to know your personal judgement on this moral dilemna if you have any. What would YOU do in this position ?

 Who cares how I judge you? Who am I anyway? That's not what matters. What matters is what is right and what G-d commands of us.
 Hopefully not get myself into this problem to begin with. And if already in this situation see if my partner would be willing to sincerely practice Judaism (probably by knowing her already for this time). Tell her I cant be with her since I am taking G-D's words more seriously and maybe ask her to consider converting (properly). Until then be separate, BUT perhaps the converting process can be very quickly especially in this situation (I am not an expect at this, but from the little I know, converting doesn't need to be a 2 year process as some are overextending it to be. Perhaps even a few weeks). Either way just get in touch with a Hacham and say the situation in detail. If she converts fine and well. If not I would personally separate. (And I know this is painful).
 Similar situation happened at the time of Ezra when the Jews returned to Israel and many of them were married to non-Jewesses. It was ordered that they separate and as painful as it was, they did it.

[cjd]

Maybe its not the only possibility available. I don't know I'm not a Rabbi. But definitely a Jew can't be with a non-Jew. And Halahically (that is legally by Jewish law) a (Jewish) man who gets a non-Jewess pregnant, the children aren't even his (halahically). Talk to your local Orthodox Rabbi. Their are options, even where one can be with that person but the status of the person changes from non-Jew to a Jew.

Yaakov is a really nice person because if it were me  after reading some of the posts here on this thread I would have told a few people what they could go do to themselves... At this point would it not be better for Yaakov to expose his family to the nicer aspects of the Jewish religion instead of all this hate and disowning and have the possibility of the children eventually wanting to follow the Jewish faith? Half the Jews I have met over the years here in New York have someone in their family who is non Jewish... I think there would be a large amount of disowned families if people followed the letter of Jewish law.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Yaakov is a really nice person because if it were me  after reading some of the posts here on this thread I would have told a few people what they could go do to themselves... At this point would it not be better for Yaakov to expose his family to the nicer aspects of the Jewish religion instead of all this hate and disowning and have the possibility of the children eventually wanting to follow the Jewish faith? Half the Jews I have met over the years here in New York have someone in their family who is non Jewish... I think there would be a large amount of disowned families if people followed the letter of Jewish law.

 I don't know, maybe you read it that way, but what I'm  saying is actually NOT hateful and perhaps would actually help him. I was only discussing solutions (obviously he would have to take care of it himself- with a (true) Rabbi).
  This is like someone with cancer (G-D forbid) and you telling the doctor you know what don't tell the patient they are I'll. Just let him be. Don't try to take a cure and do the work and perhaps be healthy. You wouldn't want to upset him.
  Same thing with the situation in Israel with the Arabs. What should people like Chaim just be silent and let the country be destroyed without saying the warnings to the consequences that can come about?

[cjd]

I don't know, maybe you read it that way, but what I'm  saying is actually NOT hateful and perhaps would actually help him. I was only discussing solutions (obviously he would have to take care of it himself- with a (true) Rabbi).
  This is like someone with cancer (G-D forbid) and you telling the doctor you know what don't tell the patient they are I'll. Just let him be. Don't try to take a cure and do the work and perhaps be healthy. You wouldn't want to upset him.
  Same thing with the situation in Israel with the Arabs. What should people like Chaim just be silent and let the country be destroyed without saying the warnings to the consequences that can come about?

You make a point here however the fact remains that there are children involved that have the potential if not already to follow the Jewish faith... If he were to turn his back on them or disown them to some extent that potential would be lost.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

You make a point here however the fact remains that there are children involved that have the potential if not already to follow the Jewish faith... If he were to turn his back on them or disown them to some extent that potential would be lost.

  You perhaps didn't understand me. I can sense you are not Jewish and don't understand that children are Jewish according to the mother. And yes they can become Jewish if they soo choose (as can almost any non-Jew) perhaps some would even encourage some people in these situation to. But either way this is not something someone in these situations should solve here with me and you. Like I said contact a Hacham and deal with the particular situation.
 BUT definitely, definitely it would be wrong for some here to not only not be helping but even encouraging negative behavior. Making things dealing with Jewish law seem low and "not a big deal".
 Most here are probably at least against homosexuality. For your own purposes replace Jew marrying "non-Jewess" to man "marrying" another man. Maybe you'll begin to understand. 

[Lisa]

I agree with CJD about Yaakov being a nice person.  He's always been respectful and he expresses himself intelligently in his posts.  He has a daughter to whom he's teaching Judaism.  And from what I understand, the young girl is proud of her Jewish ancestry. 

I see it's very easy for people over the internet to say to someone they've never met to "do this" or "do that."  But ultimately, it's between Yaakov, his family, and his rabbi.  Please let's not get in his face when he's trying to make the best of his life and that of his family.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

I agree with CJD about Yaakov being a nice person.  He's always been respectful and he expresses himself intelligently in his posts.  He has a daughter to whom he's teaching Judaism.  And from what I understand, the young girl is proud of her Jewish ancestry. 

I see it's very easy for people over the internet to say to someone they've never met to "do this" or "do that."  But ultimately, it's between Yaakov, his family, and his rabbi.  Please let's not get in his face when he's trying to make the best of his life and that of his family.

 Honestly, why did you write what you did? No one is attacking anyone here. I suggested he email Harav Bar Chaim Shalitta, and he agreed. That should have been the end of it (here on the forum).

[Lisa]

OK Tag, maybe I could have worded it better.

We know what Jewish law forbids marrying out, as does Yaakov.  But he was assimilated and non-observant when he married.  Now he's trying to make the best of everything being that he's returning to his Jewish roots.  So it's easy to sit and at a keyboard and type here "I would separate,"  or "intermarriage is terrible," etc.  Of course intermarriage is big a problem.  Yaakov is well aware of that.   

But you're absolutely right about him talking to a rabbi.  It should be in person, and not just a one time thing. 

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I have been meaning to make this point to Chaim on Ask JTF for a long time but this seems like a good place to do it.

One thing that I think holds JTF back is the negative tone of it's messengers.  I am not talking about ideology but the way the message gets delivered.  It seems like we can't wait to jump on someone.  I think Chaim unintentionally sets the tone for this.  When he refers to everyone who he has a disagrement with as "piece of excrement", "traitors" etc. it sets a tone.  While I have no problem with being strident and taking strong positions we sometimes come across as people who do nothing but complain and that is not going to advance the cause.  People (at least those who achieve and can be contributors) don't want to associate with people who are angry and negative all the time.  This is not a Larry David show.

I think we see this rub off on young guys like Ron and Brennan Fan (or whatever name he uses now) who think the correct way to communicate is to insult, trash and demean.  

I met settlers who were building homes in unauthorized outposts, who might see years of labor and significant money taken from them.  I met a man from Amona who is next on the list to have his home destroyed.

Some of these people served in elite units of the IDF.  I think they would all vehemently disagree that the Yesha Council people are traitors. One referred to the Price Tag people as a---oles  We might disagree with some of these opinions but we should recongnize
these people as good people who agree with us on 90% of important issues rather than concentrate on the small number of areas of disagreement.  We are a tiny minority of a tiny minority we should at least be able to get along with our own.

Honestly, I have always felt that one of the great strengths of Jtf is that Chaim routinely calls evil people "pieces of excrement."   Most people are not willing to express to what extent traitors really are destroying their people.  Calling them terms like that puts it in a different light that is essential to see.  And it validates those inner feelings people (listeners) have but don't necessarily vocalize and never really grasp how serious it is.  When its vocalized it puts it in proper perspective to have the right attitude toward Jewish traitors who commit expulsions of Jews or give away land to arabs, and toward american traitors who want to establish a massive tyranny of the federal govt and make americans slaves to the UN.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I don't think insulting member's wives is a way to make the forum grow. I think some of you folks that crossed over here from the Hebrew forum are just trying your best to sabotage this board and hurting people in the process.

Unlike Goyim which can be insulting or not based on context, I've never seen anyone use the word 'shiksa' except to be insulting.

I don't believe that any of this true.  Not one word.

Ok maybe one word, I did not know the origin of shiksa.  It is sometimes used in a derogatory but many times I've seen it used just to refer to a non Jewish girl that is tempting for a Jewish man.  For example the famous seinfeld episode with elaine lol

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

True Goy means nation even Jews are called Goy Gadol a big Nation .[Actually there are only about 13 million in the world] but shiksa isn't even a Hebrew term i don't know the translation but I'm pretty sure it's derogatory

Actually the ishmaelim are called goy gadol.  We are called goy echad in davening and in other places referred to with the term.  You're right it does mean nation.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

It seems you have been following the forum quite intensively before finally signing up with this catchy named account. Interesting.

So what?

Lol, and this is what's going to keep members here?  Bizarre insinuations?

[Yaakov Mendel]

He has a daughter to whom he's teaching Judaism.  And from what I understand, the young girl is proud of her Jewish ancestry.  

Absolutely. My daughter goes to Torah classes. Her mother is very respectful of that. My daughter may not be Jewish yet according to the Halacha, but she is receiving much more Jewish education, culture and pride than I received when I was a child although I am a born Jew.
Also, there is no Christian influence whatsoever in our home because my wife, although of Christian descent, is not observant. Not that I despise Christianity, everybody knows here that I respect Christians (my grandfather was saved by a Catholic priest during WWII, by the way). But I am saying this to emphasize that my daughter is not exposed to conflicting religious influences.
So I think that proper conditions are met for my daughter to become Jewish, even if it will be up to her to decide, ultimately.
Actually, the Rabbi at her shul told me that if she continues to attend Torah classes regularly for a few years, a conversion process could be undertaken before she does her bat mitzva; but I am hesitant about that because I want to respect her liberty of conscience, so maybe I'd rather she waited to be an adult so that she can make that decision on her own.

[Yaakov Mendel]

Half the Jews I have met over the years here in New York have someone in their family who is non Jewish... I think there would be a large amount of disowned families if people followed the letter of Jewish law.

True.

[Yaakov Mendel]

Hopefully not get myself into this problem to begin with. And if already in this situation see if my partner would be willing to sincerely practice Judaism (probably by knowing her already for this time). Tell her I cant be with her since I am taking G-D's words more seriously and maybe ask her to consider converting (properly). Until then be separate, BUT perhaps the converting process can be very quickly especially in this situation (I am not an expect at this, but from the little I know, converting doesn't need to be a 2 year process as some are overextending it to be. Perhaps even a few weeks). Either way just get in touch with a Hacham and say the situation in detail. If she converts fine and well. If not I would personally separate. (And I know this is painful).
 Similar situation happened at the time of Ezra when the Jews returned to Israel and many of them were married to non-Jewesses. It was ordered that they separate and as painful as it was, they did it.

I don't think it would be fair for me to ask my wife to convert. She didn't marry me because she wanted to live with an observant Jew. She is an honest agnostic and I respect that.
Telling my wife to convert or to go would be blackmail.
I will not leave my wife anyway. I am convinced that it would be an ugly and unfair thing to do.

[mord]

I don't think it would be fair for me to ask my wife to convert. She didn't marry me because she wanted to live with an observant Jew. She is an honest agnostic and I respect that.
Telling my wife to convert or to go would be blackmail.
I will not leave my wife anyway. I am convinced that it would be an ugly and unfair thing to do.

True besides my friend married a Scottish girl she was in the midst of converting before he meet her he told her to stop,now thats insane.She was crazier to listen to him anyways the reason he didn't want her to convert she would be orthodox and he didn't want to be orthodox

[Yaakov Mendel]

the reason he didn't want her to convert she would be orthodox and he didn't want to be orthodox

There is some Jewish irony in this situation !

[mord]

There is some Jewish irony in this situation !

Very true

[Dr. Dan]

Tag I want to commend you for your thoughtful and kind posts to yaacov.

And yaacov I want to thank you for being kind in your responses to him.

Whatever you do yaacov I hope that Gd gives you the most favorable result for you and your family.  Pray for whatever He feels is best for you and family.

[Spiraling Leopard]

So what?

Lol, and this is what's going to keep members here?  Bizarre insinuations?

What does this thread or my post have to do with keeping members here?
It was about a year and a half ago that Yaakov got some attention on the forum for having married a non-Jewish wife. It is most certainly weird that a new forummember that pops up with huge forumactivity would remember that when he wasn't on the forum yet?

Your choice of words and the problem you have with my post itself are a lot more 'bizarre'.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

What does this thread or my post have to do with keeping members here?
It was about a year and a half ago that Yaakov got some attention on the forum for having married a non-Jewish wife. It is most certainly weird that a new forummember that pops up with huge forumactivity would remember that when he wasn't on the forum yet?

Your choice of words and the problem you have with my post itself are a lot more 'bizarre'.

I chose those words because lately there's been a big discusion on the forum about scaring off new members and according to some people the forum is "too Jewish."  I guess you weren't part of that discussion so I should phrase my comment more constructively.  When you question the motives publicly and make bizarre insinuations, it is not fair to a new member.

What you are claiming about Tag Mechir is not correct.  Most of the comments in this thread with yaakov and others are referring to another thread (from like 2 days ago, not years ago), where this subject with Yaakov came up.  Hence what dr dan was referring to about rereading the other thread. 

[Maimonides]

1) I find it hard to believe that the IDF soldier runs away because he's afraid of the little child. It is likely that there is a greater danger that is not shown by the film, like other ennemies coming towards him in the background.

It is NOT hard to believe, because IDF rules of engagement prohibit them from shooting Arabs who are just throwing rocks.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

It is NOT hard to believe, because IDF rules of engagement prohibit them from shooting Arabs who are just throwing rocks.

Exactly.   You nailed it right on the head.  There's nothing inherently wrong with an IDF soldier and no reason he would have any less courage than anyone else in battle from how he was born.  But the IDF soldiers are trained and raised in a culture of cowardice whereby the idf elite castrates them and turns them against Jews and puts them in utter fear of harming an arab.