What Make Bernie Run - by Rabbi Meir Kahane

[Yaakov Mendel]

But you didn't go back to Judaism. You're aren't only sleeping with a Gentile but you also said that to stop sinning with her is "ugly" and that you will never do such a thing. If that's not too outrageous, When coon said that he doesn't care if Israel is destroyed by Obama and prayed for my violent death, you sided with him. As if Jews and Gentiles (who are also outright Nazis) are equal for you. This all means that you don't give a f-k about Jewish loyalty which you called "tribalism" and "injustice".

Tochacha (Rebuke) is one of the most important demands that G-d has made for us. It's painful and it can't be nice. It must be firm and uncompromising just like a guy who demands his brother to stop taking drugs. You can't even listen to it? very bad. But at least don't pretend that what you're doing is Judaism.

1) I did not support Coon praying for your violent death, that is a lie. On the contrary, I clearly said that he should not have said that.
2) Just because you are a Jew doesn't mean that I will automatically side with you if I think you're wrong. I will do my best to change your mind. And I will not inform against a fellow Jew so that doesn't make me a traitor.
3) I believe Hashem reads through our hearts and minds like an open book. So He knows what we really mean and whether our intentions are good or not. It's up to Him, not to you, to judge whether I am doing the right thing.

[Zelhar]

But you didn't go back to Judaism. You're aren't only sleeping with a Gentile but you also said that to stop sinning with her is "ugly" and that you will never do such a thing. If that's not too outrageous, When coon said that he doesn't care if Israel is destroyed by Obama and prayed for my violent death, you sided with him. As if Jews and Gentiles (who are also outright Nazis) are equal for you. This all means that you don't give a f-k about Jewish loyalty which you called "tribalism" and "injustice".

Tochacha (Rebuke) is one of the most important demands that G-d has made for us. It's painful and it can't be nice. It must be firm and uncompromising just like a guy who demands his brother to stop taking drugs. You can't even listen to it? very bad. But at least don't pretend that what you're doing is Judaism.
 

I think you can state your stand against intermarriage without personal insults. And if you insist on insulting be consistent and rebuke in the most insulting way you can everyone on the forum who violates the shabbat, eats non-kosher, etc.

If you actually care for your fellow Jews though, you should try a different approach.

[edu]

Rabbi Kahane had sympathy and understanding for Jews, who weren't so observant, because they were brought up in secular homes, but that didn't stop him from trying to always demand from them to be more observant in all areas, both for nationalistic commandments and for personal commandments.

When a person sins he causes at least 2 problems. The first problem is that since we believe in reward and punishment, in the long run, we believe it is not in the sinner's interest to sin.
The second problem is that he weakens his general acceptance of G-d being our King and Master and damages Jewish society on the whole and delays the ultimate redemption of mankind.
Those who say, "I am exempt from problem #1 because of my background", still have no solution for problem #2.
Those who read Ohr Haraayon, of Rabbi Kahane will understand that Rabbi Kahane's emphasis on doing commandments and avoiding sins, was out of his deep belief that it is the task of Jews to accept the yoke of heaven in this world and sanctify G-d's name. That is to say his focus was on solving problem #2.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

1) I did not support Coon praying for your violent death, that is a lie. On the contrary, I clearly said that he should not have said that.

You supported him after he said that. You said that it's my fault and then you started mumbling about how he's a good JTFer even though he prayed for my death.

2) Just because you are a Jew doesn't mean that I will automatically side with you if I think you're wrong. I will do my best to change your mind. And I will not inform against a fellow Jew so that doesn't make me a traitor.

I rest my case.

3) I believe Hashem reads through our hearts and minds like an open book. So He knows what we really mean and whether our intentions are good or not. It's up to Him, not to you, to judge whether I am doing the right thing.

This is what get me furious: the hypocrisy That's not Judaism. You can't commit sins and call it Judaism.

And have you looked at Ron's new vicious comment more or less equating my wife with a kurva ("You're aren't only sleeping with a Gentile but you also said that to stop sinning with her is "ugly", those were his words)  

I can't define a relationship between a Jew and a Gentile as something as holy as marriage. It's not. So I call it sleeping with.

[Dr. Dan]

You are not being fair. Not that it matters much, I can live with that and that does not change the fact that you do a very good job as a moderator of this forum, but since you insist, I have to point it out to you.
In this thread, I have raised important questions that a lot of Jews are faced with as a result of assimilation and life in the Exile. The points I have raised are all related to Rabbi Kahane's text given by the initial poster. Instead of debating what I said, Tag Mahir made yet another personal judgement on me and he tried once more to ridicule me in a vulgar manner by portraying me as some kind of hysterical "menstruating woman". Do you think THAT is "cool", to use your own word ? Am I delusional to consider myself attacked ? Really ? And have you looked at Ron's new vicious comment more or less equating my wife with a kurva ("You're aren't only sleeping with a Gentile but you also said that to stop sinning with her is "ugly", those were his words) ? You are absolutely entitled to support Ron and Tag if that's the way you think, but please let me respond. Because it has nothing to do with me as a person. It has to do with principles I stand for and I have the courage to defend against the tide.
 

It's before the menstruation comment that you seen to take every other thing tag is saying personally when he isn't attacking or addressing you.  This thread isn't about you.  But every time tag says something that isn't to you or even about you you start calling him arrogant.  Or in previous posts where you are debating with him, instead of addressing and countering his argument, you use a tone as if he is attacking you when he is only disagreeing.  

I'm trying to be impartial here.  Yes in a debate you don't call each other names.  But really before that menstruation comment, you were feeling attacked, but tag want attacking you.  That's how I saw it.

As far as Ron, what do you expect? At this point, he has insulted every jtf member at least twice.  I am now just focusing in the issues and this essay is amazing.

Me personally, I was practically raised in a similar manner.  Except somewhere in there, my parents did something right.  And so did the "rabbi" up to a certain point.  I think what kahane write isn't completely true because I'm a Jew from the same environment who is here on jtf.

However, while people like me might be an exception to the rule, kahane is right.  The Jewish people should not settle for exceptions.  Every Jew needs to be an exception to the rule in the good direction.

And as far as sinning.  We all sin, but everyday we are given a chance to move away from it.  One of the first steps to being a better Jew is admitting to it without blaming others things for giving you a bad hand in life.  We all have free will.  Yaacov this is not to just you, but to everyone here.  

And I have no interest in pointing out other people's sins here day in and day out if they are unable to humble themselves about it.  That's not just you.  That's anyone else on the forum.

And to tag, I can understand it could get frustrating.  Try to step back and not call someone names if they are already angry.  there is a saying that when a person is fire, don't be fire. Be water.

[Yaakov Mendel]

You supported him after he said that. You said that it's my fault and then you started mumbling about how he's a good JTFer even though he prayed for my death.

I rest my case.

This is what get me furious: the hypocrisy That's not Judaism. You can't commit sins and call it Judaism.


I can't define a relationship between a Jew and a Gentile as something as holy as marriage. It's not. So I call it sleeping with.

For the hundredth time, I NEVER claimed that I was an orthodox Jew, so I don't understand why I am called a hypocrite.
Feel free not to consider me as a Jew if you like. But the Halacha defines me as a Jew. I didn't set the rules.

Despite the disagreements I have with you, I would never wish death upon you, G-d forbid, and I did not support that outrageous statement by Coon. But what do you expect ? You are extremely aggressive and abusive with almost everyone here, so it's not surprising that now and then someone will express bitter feelings towards you.

[Yaakov Mendel]

This thread isn't about you.  

That's exactly what I've been saying from the beginning. Who made this thread personal ? Tag, not me.
I have talked about my personal experience not because I think I'm such an interesting person, but because I am representative of a number of Jews who have been raised in assimilated families.

[Yaakov Mendel]

I hope you guys who are so quick to condemn the non-orthodox Jews, whatever their background and personal circumstances, are exemplary Jews, because G-d hates hypocrites.

[Lisa]

Regarding Rabbi Kahane's excellent essay, what I noticed, and no one here seems to have commented upon was how he let the Jewish establishment have it. 

Anyway, it looks like everyone has had their say here on the topic of intermarriage.  So I think I'll lock this thread for the time being.