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Offline Dr. Dan

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Question about this past Torah Parasha
« on: December 11, 2011, 12:58:12 PM »
For anyone here who understands the following, I need a few explanations.. Thanks

This is the parasha where Jacob goes to meet Esau after many years.

In this parasha, there is a little blurb that comes out of no where about Reuven.  It mentions that he slept with one of Jacob's hand maiden's, Bilah, and that Jacob "knew about it".  Why was this mentioned and what is the significance?

Also in this parasha, there is a special mention of the death of Devorah and her burial.  Why is this important and significant?

Thanks.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline muman613

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Re: Question about this past Torah Parasha
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2011, 01:09:21 PM »
For anyone here who understands the following, I need a few explanations.. Thanks

This is the parasha where Jacob goes to meet Esau after many years.

In this parasha, there is a little blurb that comes out of no where about Reuven.  It mentions that he slept with one of Jacob's hand maiden's, Bilah, and that Jacob "knew about it".  Why was this mentioned and what is the significance?

Also in this parasha, there is a special mention of the death of Devorah and her burial.  Why is this important and significant?

Thanks.

I don't think he 'slept with' a handmaiden. Are you referring to the instance where he moved the bed of his father? This is an explanation of what happened in that incident...


http://www.vbm-torah.org/archive/intparsha67/08-67vayishlach.htm

Quote
REUVEN'S SIN:
 
The pasuk (Bereishit 35:22) tells us: "When Yisrael dwelled in that land, Reuven went and slept with Bilha, his father's concubine, and Yisrael heard."
 
Rashi cites the midrash brought on Shabbat 55b:
 
Because he switched around his [father's] bed, the Torah treats him as if he slept with her.  Now, why did he switch and desecrate his bed?  When Rachel died, Yaakov took his bed, which was placed most frequently in Rachel's tent rather than the other tents, and Yaakov put his bed in Bilha's tent.  Reuven came to protest his mother's insult.  He said: "If my mother's sister was a rival-wife to my mother, should the maidservant of my mother's sister now become a rival-wife to my mother?"  Therefore, he made the switch.
 
According to the Torah text, Reuven slept with Bilha.  According to the midrash, he simply adjusted his father's sleeping arrangements, obviously an unwelcome intrusion into his father's personal life, but not quite the same degree of sin!  What is the truth here?  Is the midrash not making an attempt to whitewash Reuven's severe crime?  Why does the midrash feel a need to distort the facts of the matter?
 
Perhaps to emphasize our question, the "headline" for this midrash as it appears on Shabbat 55b is: "If you think that Reuven sinned, you are mistaken."  How are we to understand this rabbinic statement?  Clearly Reuven sinned—it is explicitly written in the Torah text!  How can Chazal utterly disregard the peshat?

PESHAT: SONS, FATHERS AND CONCUBINES.
 
If Reuven actually did sleep with Bilha, then what was his motive?  Ostensibly, we may be talking about a love affair between Reuven and Bilha.  However, I believe that from a perspective which views all of Tanakh, a second possibility comes into focus.
 
There are many instances in Tanakh in which a son attempts to engage in sexual relations with his father's concubine.  The two cases that stand out are the stories of Avshalom and of Adoniya, two rebellious sons of King David.  In both of these narratives, there is a political rather than a sexual motive.  In both episodes, the son's act with his father's concubine represents his taking his father's status as king.  By taking the king's wives and engaging in sexual relations with them, the son is assuming his father's position, with all of its political significance.
 
Avshalom stages a rebellion against his father, King David, and temporarily deposes him from the throne, exiling him from Jerusalem.  Avshalom, interested in making a firm statement about his new status as king, asks his advisor Achitofel how he might publicize his new role as monarch.  Achitofel replies (II Shemuel 16:21):
 
"Lie with your father's concubines, whom he left to mind the palace; and when all Israel hears that you have dared the wrath of your father, all who support you will be encouraged."
 
Similarly, in the beginning of I Melakhim, Adoniya stages a coup against David and his promised heir, Shelomo.  David foils this attempt, but after his death, in a rather devious move, Adoniya asks Bat Sheva, the Queen Mother, to approach her son Shelomo and petition him for the right to marry King David's concubine Avishag.  Shelomo responds in horror (I Melakhim 2:22-24):
 
"'Why request Avishag the Shunammit for Adoniya? Request the kingship for him!"
Thereupon King Solomon swore by Lord: "So may G-d do to me and even more, if broaching this matter does not cost Adoniya his life … Adoniya shall be put to death this very day!"
 
These proofs are not the only ones.  One might also talk about Avner (II Shemuel 3:7) and even the case of David's wife Mikhal (ibid., vv. 13-16.) So where does this lead us?  What might we conclude from these episodes?  We can summarize it in a single sentence: in Tanakh, a son sleeping with his father's concubine is not an expression of romance; it is a quintessential act of politics, in which the son is usurping his father's position.
 
THE CASE OF REUVEN.
 
On the basis of that which we have gleaned from other references in Tanakh, we do understand that what takes place between Reuven and Bilha is not some sordid love affair.  The issue at stake is the family leadership and who will succeed Yaakov as patriarch of the family.
 
Rachel has died.  Everyone is fully aware of Rachel's special status in Yaakov's eyes: they all know that she was his first love, his true love.  However, now Rachel is dead.
 
This is not the only important occurrence that takes place at this time; concurrent with Rachel's death is the birth of Yaakov's twelfth and final son.  We do not quite know whether Yaakov and his wives know that they are aiming for a family of twelve sons (though this is Rashi's assumption, and we do indeed find twelve princes of Yishmael in 17:20 and 25:13-16, as well as twelve sons of Nachor in 22:21-24), but we do know in retrospect that the clan is now complete.
 
Naturally, with the family unit whole, the question that must be raised pertains to the leadership of the next generation.  While Rachel is alive, Leah's children feel suppressed and marginalized; with Rachel's death, it is time for Leah's clan to claim their rightful place in the family.  Reuven, firstborn of Leah, expresses in the most explicit way, by sleeping with Bilha, that he intends to succeed his father as the family leader.  His goal is to proclaim that the children of Leah are the natural continuation of Yaakov, not Rachel's children.
 
BACK TO THE MIDRASH.
 
Our midrash discusses the question of switching the beds.  Where does the text allude to this?  In 49:4 and I Divrei Ha-yamim 5:2, Reuven's crime is described as a desecration of his father's yetzu'im.  How is that phrase correctly translated?  Rashi brings references that connect this phrase with the notion of a bed or bedding.  If Reuven had committed a sexual crime, the Torah has very explicit terminology to describe such an act; it is not shy about these things.  Instead, Reuven is described as "defiling his father's bed."  Why the stress upon the bed itself if the sin is so much more grievous?
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Question about this past Torah Parasha
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2011, 01:17:44 PM »
I found this explanation of the death of Devorah:


http://www.torah.org/learning/ravfrand/5768/vayishlach.html

Sending A Delegate From the Previous Generation

This week's parsha records the death of Rivka's nursemaid, Devorah: "Devorah, the wet nurse of Rebecca died and she was buried below Beth-El, below the Allon, and he named it, Allon-bachuth" [Bereshis 35:8]. Rashi wonders what Rivka's nanny was doing in Yaakov's household, such that Yaakov should wind up burying her. The Medrash states that Devorah was 133 years old at the time of her death. Rashi states that Rivka had sent her old nursemaid to Yaakov in fulfillment of her promise to him that she would send word to him when it was time to come home from Padan Aram [Bereshis 27:45]. Devorah died on the journey back home after having carried out this mission.

Rashi's words are very difficult to comprehend. Why would Rivka choose this elderly woman to journey on this long trip to carry out such a mission? Could she not find a more appropriate messenger to send word to her son that it was time to come home?

Rav Dov Weinberger makes a beautiful comment on this Rashi. Yaakov was most reluctant to leave the house of Yitzchak and Rivka. Rikva insisted that he must leave. But Yaakov protested: "What will be with my spirituality? How can I leave this holy household and survive in the house of Lavan the crook?" Rivka promised "I will take you back and I will restore to you what you lost spiritually in the years you were away."

To accomplish such a mission, one cannot send a young kid. On such a mission, one must send a "great grandmother." To restore the idea of what the House of Yitzchak was like in Yaakov's mind, it was necessary to send someone from the older generation. The person who grew up in yesteryear presents an untarnished image. They come from the "old home." Unlike the "younger generation," they represent "the way it is supposed to be."
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Question about this past Torah Parasha
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2011, 01:23:17 PM »
Thank you, Muman.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline muman613

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Re: Question about this past Torah Parasha
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2011, 01:25:45 PM »
Here are the pasuks from Chabads interpretation of the Parasha with Rashis comments:

http://www.chabad.org/parshah/torahreading.asp?AID=15554&p=complete&showrashi=true

Parasha Vayishlach, Genesis/Beresheit 35

22. And it came to pass when Israel sojourned in that land, that Reuben went and lay with Bilhah, his father's concubine, and Israel heard [of it], and so, the sons of Jacob were twelve.

Quote
RASHI:
when Israel sojourned in that land:
Before he came to Hebron, to Isaac, all these [incidents] befell him.

and lay: Since he (Reuben) disarranged his (Jacob’s) bed, Scripture considers it as if he had lain with her. Now why did he disarrange and profane his bed? [It was] because when Rachel died, Jacob took his bed, which had been regularly placed in Rachel’s tent and not in the other tents, and moved it in to Bilhah’s tent. Reuben came and protested his mother’s humiliation. He said,“If my mother’s sister was a rival to my mother, should my mother’s sister’s handmaid [now also] be a rival to my mother?” For this reason, he disarranged it. — [from Shab. 55b]

and so, the sons of Jacob were twelve: [Scripture] commences with the previous topic (i.e. the birth of Benjamin). When Benjamin was born, the marriage bed (i.e. the destined number of sons) was completed, and from then on, it was proper that they be counted, and [so] it (Scripture) counted them. Our Sages, however, interpreted that these words are intended to teach us that all of them (Jacob’s sons) were equal, and all of them were righteous, for Reuben had not sinned. — [from Shab. 55b]
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Question about this past Torah Parasha
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2011, 02:12:42 PM »
Here is a short talk about the incident of the rape of Dinah... I think it has a similar message to Chaims Dvar Torah last week...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Question about this past Torah Parasha
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2011, 03:23:23 PM »
Gd bless Shimon and Levi for acting on behalf of the Jewish people.  Their strong reactions were the reactions of a proud and strong Jew saying, "If you dare touch any of our own, you will get it!"  This is how every Jew should react when one of our own is harmed.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline muman613

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Re: Question about this past Torah Parasha
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2011, 03:30:18 PM »
Gd bless Shimon and Levi for acting on behalf of the Jewish people.  Their strong reactions were the reactions of a proud and strong Jew saying, "If you dare touch any of our own, you will get it!"  This is how every Jew should react when one of our own is harmed.

Indeed this is an example of righteous anger... One reason Yitzak favored Essau was because he was fit to be a warrior and sometimes the Jewish people need mighty leaders who take charge rather than simply follow... That is one lesson from this story...
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Question about this past Torah Parasha
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2011, 10:09:45 PM »
Here is a short talk about the incident of the rape of Dinah... I think it has a similar message to Chaims Dvar Torah last week...



 Pshhee great shiur. Thanks for sharing.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Chai

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Re: Question about this past Torah Parasha
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2011, 12:09:19 AM »
Our view is mainstreaming .