Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea

Who is with me on this

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Dr. Dan:
Bottom line we have to share this world with many people who disagree with us. I know that this isn't completely a JTF point of view however I will only speak about Jews in Israel...

Because not all of our ideals are alike, religious or secular, but we share the same territory, that doesn't give the right of one side to impose on the other.  If we are sharing space, we have to learn to get along.  First off, no matter which type of nut your are, you have to expect not everyone will agree with your way of life. Secondly, if you are the nut on the other side of the spectrum, if you are to get along with your neighbor, even if you disagree, you have to show respect.  This means that the secular nut doesn't walk around in a religious community flaunting skin; and this means a religious nut doesn't go forcing his views on an innocent unknowing secular person.  On the other hand, a secular person who realizes which territory she is going in should show respect and cover up out of respect...and that religious person should show more kindness if he wants to rebuke the lack of modesty of the other person..

It's common sense if you ask me..but then again, extremists don't have any common sense.

muman613:
I don't agree completely with what this Rabbi is saying though I understand what he is saying.

I completely respect women as a part of the human race. We are both two parts of a whole for without women nobody here would be alive. Women and Men are both essential for the continuity of the human race despite all the efforts to eliminate this fact of life.

I am not one who believes in equality of all humanity. On one level we all are G-ds creation, we are all holy in our own ways, and we are all special. But our specialty is not the same between all people. All one needs to do is look at the world and we see the fact that some are rich, some are poor, some are happy, some are sad, and some don't care.

If we all were equal we would all be the same. I believe that Hashem has created an incomplete world where no one soul is complete without another. We NEED each other in order to live. Hashem wants us to realize that we all have potential and to help everyone utilize his/her potential for the best.

The Torah is clear, in my humble opinion, that we are not all equal. No man who was not born from a father who was a Kohein can ever be a Kohein. Nobody can study to become a Levi. Our family is not our choice, it is given to us, as life is given to us. Hashem gives us our personality traits and our DNA which dictates our physical traits. It is our free will which molds what we were given into who we are and who we will become.

Regarding women it is important to remember this dynamic, that women need men as much as men need women. We are not the same because a man does not want a woman who is the same as he is, he should want a woman who will improve who he will be. And the woman should want a man who will improve who she is and who she will be.

So women should want to dress modestly not because it is shameful to show yourself, not because you can't be proud of how you look... Women should want to dress modestly to allow the men to be able to concentrate more on their Torah study, and more on their business dealings. And it has been found that men often are more attracted to a women who is modest than one who is immodest.

All I ask is for women who are trying to understand this issue in Judaism is to remember that we are really all working to make this world a better place. It is not because we believe women to be inferior or something to be ashamed of.

I do think the constant comparing the custom of gender separation to Islam is counterproductive. Obviously Judaism doesn't put the sin on the woman, it puts the sin on the man for having these impure thoughts. But sometimes the woman could be more considerate by understanding why some Jewish men act this way.

See Gil Ronens opinion : http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/11071

Confederate Kahanist:

--- Quote from: Lisa on January 06, 2012, 12:28:08 PM ---Notice how the most backwards societies are those where there are almost no limits on male sexual behavior?  Muslim countries are the best example.  Rather than men being responsible for their behavior, they make their women cover up completely.  In fact some mullahs have argued that an uncovered woman is like a piece of meat with flies swarming on it.  In other words an uncovered "immodestly dressed" woman is fair game for men, whenever, or wherever the urge takes them. 

--- End quote ---

What's funny is that liberals and feminists tend to support this behavior in the muzzie world.

Debbie Shafer:
Yes, We should be able to control our emotions and urges....after all we are thinkers who should be able to control our base passions, and implement Godly principles, Mind over Matter!   What an excuse to blame it on the beauty and the Curves of Women!

Chai:

http://www.divineinformation.com/videos-english/the-path-of-the-just-series-4-2/

Not sure what you dont agree with but this is what rabbi mizrachi says he not only agrees but goes even further start at 1:04 till the end.



--- Quote from: muman613 on January 06, 2012, 03:59:20 PM ---I don't agree completely with what this Rabbi is saying though I understand what he is saying.

I completely respect women as a part of the human race. We are both two parts of a whole for without women nobody here would be alive. Women and Men are both essential for the continuity of the human race despite all the efforts to eliminate this fact of life.

I am not one who believes in equality of all humanity. On one level we all are G-ds creation, we are all holy in our own ways, and we are all special. But our specialty is not the same between all people. All one needs to do is look at the world and we see the fact that some are rich, some are poor, some are happy, some are sad, and some don't care.

If we all were equal we would all be the same. I believe that Hashem has created an incomplete world where no one soul is complete without another. We NEED each other in order to live. Hashem wants us to realize that we all have potential and to help everyone utilize his/her potential for the best.

The Torah is clear, in my humble opinion, that we are not all equal. No man who was not born from a father who was a Kohein can ever be a Kohein. Nobody can study to become a Levi. Our family is not our choice, it is given to us, as life is given to us. Hashem gives us our personality traits and our DNA which dictates our physical traits. It is our free will which molds what we were given into who we are and who we will become.

Regarding women it is important to remember this dynamic, that women need men as much as men need women. We are not the same because a man does not want a woman who is the same as he is, he should want a woman who will improve who he will be. And the woman should want a man who will improve who she is and who she will be.

So women should want to dress modestly not because it is shameful to show yourself, not because you can't be proud of how you look... Women should want to dress modestly to allow the men to be able to concentrate more on their Torah study, and more on their business dealings. And it has been found that men often are more attracted to a women who is modest than one who is immodest.

All I ask is for women who are trying to understand this issue in Judaism is to remember that we are really all working to make this world a better place. It is not because we believe women to be inferior or something to be ashamed of.

I do think the constant comparing the custom of gender separation to Islam is counterproductive. Obviously Judaism doesn't put the sin on the woman, it puts the sin on the man for having these impure thoughts. But sometimes the woman could be more considerate by understanding why some Jewish men act this way.

See Gil Ronens opinion : http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/11071

--- End quote ---

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