Author Topic: jewish intermarriage vs. homosexuality (Read 2622 times)

Dr. Dan · « **on:** February 11, 2012, 07:24:09 AM »

I was trying to rationalize the following thoughts and want to hear your opinions:

I can understand Jewish parents disowning their child for marrying a non Jew, but would have a problem if a parent disowned their child for being a homosexual and bringing home a significant other of the same sex.

I know it doesn't sound logical..first off both are bad and harmful things. However, heterosexual Jews are not born with a predisposition or sexual attraction to gentiles. They have a predisposition to being with a female and can marry a Jew, but chooses to do the opposite at the behest of his parents if they observe the rule of no intermarriage. So I can understand a parent disowning their child for rebellious decisions like that.

On the other hand, most homosexuals cannot be expected to get married to the opposite sex. It's like expecting someone with no arms and legs to run the marathon. If he does, wow. But can't expect that. The same would be true with a homosexual. A normal parent would want their child to get married to the opposite sex and if he could pull it off, great..but you can't expect it to happen more times than not. Nor can one expect a human being to be alone the rest of his life even though that is a better choice than practicing even a monogamous homosexuality. Bottom line, I'm working from a tenent that homosexuals can't help being what they are and parents shouldn't disown their child for that. I'm not saying they should support a gay relationship.

Feel free to disagree or debate. Maybe I'm wrong and missing a point.

Fyi, this is not a real life situation in my life or family's life, thank Gd. I hope nobody here over comes across either of those two situations.

jbeige · « **Reply #1 on:** February 11, 2012, 10:42:47 AM »

I don't have an answer for your question, but do have a question of my own that sort of ties in with your post.
What if a homosexual Jewish person brings home a homosexual Jewish person, is that ok or what would be the feelings there?

Meerkat · « **Reply #2 on:** February 11, 2012, 11:33:14 AM »

with homosexuality, no one cares. with intermarriage, however, you are compromising national integrity.

even if you are against homosexuality, dr. dan still made a great point that heterosexual can choose weather to in-marry or intermarry while homosexuals have a much harder time doing so.

Secularbeliever · « **Reply #3 on:** February 11, 2012, 11:48:14 AM »

On the other hand, most homosexuals cannot be expected to get married to the opposite sex. It's like expecting someone with no arms and legs to run the marathon. If he does, wow. But can't expect that. The same would be true with a homosexual. A normal parent would want their child to get married to the opposite sex and if he could pull it off, great..but you can't expect it to happen more times than not.<<

I agree with all you wrote, however, I would say that homosexuals are not doing anyone a favor by trying to be in heterosexual marriages. What about the poor girl who will likely face a point in the future where her husband abandons her for his true desires, to be with another man.

Rubystars · « **Reply #4 on:** February 11, 2012, 11:57:20 AM »

Don't rationalize perversion. There are some people who are only attracted to children, and their choice is to be with nobody or to abuse children. Would you tell them that being with nobody is a better alternative? I hope so!

Like homosexuals, attempts to treat these desires and turn pedophiles to normal sexual appetites fail and fail horribly most of the time. And yet, we see how evil and sick it is to actually act on their desires. The Bible also calls homosexuality a sin, and it should be treated the same way. Not only is the person involving themselves in a sin, they are involved in helping the other person's sin to be committed. If the choice is to be alone or to commit a terrible sin and harm not only their own soul but someone else's, the obvious choice is to be alone.

Zelhar · « **Reply #5 on:** February 11, 2012, 12:23:15 PM »

I agree in general with what Dr Dan says but I think this needs refinement. I think the parents can rightly forbid such child from bringing their partner home. This is not like disowning him, just that in their houses they have the right to demand a certain code of behavior. And also, I assume you are talking about a case of a relatively normal and quite homosexual. Because in case you are dealing with a militant gay then really for this there is no excuse.

USAReturn2GodNow1776 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 11, 2012, 02:22:31 PM »

It think it would depend upon the circumstances behind the intermarriage. The person who intermarries might be unable to help that he or she is more attracted to the non-Jew whom he or she wants to marry than to any other human being. In this case, the person who intermarries would be no more guilty than someone who enters into a gay relationship since both are just satisfying desires that they cannot help.

Additionally, the heterosexual who intermarries has a possibility of having his or her non-Jewish spouse convert to Judaism, thus making the marriage sanctified. The gay person has no chance of making his or her relationship sanctified.

Dr. Dan · « **Reply #7 on:** February 11, 2012, 02:37:56 PM »

Quote from: jbeige on February 11, 2012, 10:42:47 AM

I don't have an answer for your question, but do have a question of my own that sort of ties in with your post.
What if a homosexual Jewish person brings home a homosexual Jewish person, is that ok or what would be the feelings there?

I thought about this scenario also and here is my answer.

It's like a Jew who says, "im not going to eat ham, but ill eat a kosher burger and add cheese on top."

Dr. Dan · « **Reply #8 on:** February 11, 2012, 03:11:33 PM »

BTW, rubystars had the best answer

edu · « **Reply #9 on:** February 11, 2012, 04:36:38 PM »

We believe in Free will.
If the Bible says that Homosexuality is a serious sin, it means we were given the ability to overcome/control evil desires, such as, the sin mentioned above.
The next level after abstaining from sin, is to try to undergo medical or psychological treatment so that the person can function properly in a normal marriage.
You will probably ask, what if the treatment doesn't work?
That person should ask someone more knowledgeable than me, if the lesser of evils is to stay alone or to get married (normal "Hetero" marriage) anyway.

briann · « **Reply #10 on:** February 11, 2012, 05:21:12 PM »

Disowning just seems a bit extreme. I think you need to make it absolutely clear, early on that they are forbidden to marry out of their faith. That needs to be a discussion early on, and it needs to be re-enforced constantly.

Often times, its the parents fault for this happening, since they didn't re-enforce this.

Parenting it not an easy job. You have to have these discussions.

Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks · « **Reply #11 on:** February 11, 2012, 07:21:04 PM »

I thought Johnson Brown was leaving for good. I guess he lied. Big surprise.

Chaim Ben Pesach · « **Reply #12 on:** February 11, 2012, 08:18:04 PM »

בס''ד

Both homosexuality and intermarriage are completely forbidden by the Torah. If people make a free will choice to do something that G-d has warned against, they will suffer dire consequences on the day of judgement.

Anyone who truly loves their children can never accept either homosexuality or intermarriage. That is in effect accepting that their children will have no place in the World to Come, the world of eternal life. Homosexuality and intermarriage are an eternal death sentence for the unfortunate souls who engage in these severe sins.

kahanechai · « **Reply #13 on:** February 11, 2012, 10:56:49 PM »

Quote from: Dr. Dan on February 11, 2012, 07:24:09 AM

I was trying to rationalize the following thoughts and want to hear your opinions:

I can understand Jewish parents disowning their child for marrying a non Jew, but would have a problem if a parent disowned their child for being a homosexual and bringing home a significant other of the same sex.

I know it doesn't sound logical..first off both are bad and harmful things. However, heterosexual Jews are not born with a predisposition or sexual attraction to gentiles. They have a predisposition to being with a female and can marry a Jew, but chooses to do the opposite at the behest of his parents if they observe the rule of no intermarriage. So I can understand a parent disowning their child for rebellious decisions like that.

On the other hand, most homosexuals cannot be expected to get married to the opposite sex. It's like expecting someone with no arms and legs to run the marathon. If he does, wow. But can't expect that. The same would be true with a homosexual. A normal parent would want their child to get married to the opposite sex and if he could pull it off, great..but you can't expect it to happen more times than not. Nor can one expect a human being to be alone the rest of his life even though that is a better choice than practicing even a monogamous homosexuality. Bottom line, I'm working from a tenent that homosexuals can't help being what they are and parents shouldn't disown their child for that. I'm not saying they should support a gay relationship.

Feel free to disagree or debate. Maybe I'm wrong and missing a point.

Fyi, this is not a real life situation in my life or family's life, thank Gd. I hope nobody here over comes across either of those two situations.

you're a complete idiot. homosexuality is a far worse sin than intermarriage, as male gay sex is punishable by execution by stoning, intermarriage is only punishable by lashes.

muman613 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 12, 2012, 01:20:44 AM »

Quote from: kahanechai on February 11, 2012, 10:56:49 PM

you're a complete idiot. homosexuality is a far worse sin than intermarriage, as male gay sex is punishable by execution by stoning, intermarriage is only punishable by lashes.

Please don't call Dr Dan an idiot. You are new here and don't show any respect for a great JTF member...

briann · « **Reply #15 on:** February 12, 2012, 01:40:12 AM »

I think there are children who genuinely seek out things that are 'wrong' just so they can say theyve done it. These are the children that REALLY need to be continually warned of the consequences. They need to be warned that doing either of these acts can have horrible consequences that kids simply don't think about when they are young and rebellious.

I know a jewish lady who married a Muslim... (and later divorced) and she openly told me that she WISHED that her parents warned her about it when she was young. Her parents were typical leftists and wouldn't dare till her to not marry out of her faith... as that would not be 'intolerant' etc

Ephraim Ben Noach · « **Reply #16 on:** February 12, 2012, 01:40:38 AM »

Quote from: muman613 on February 12, 2012, 01:20:44 AM

Please don't call Dr Dan an idiot. You are new here and don't show any respect for a great JTF member...

This kahanchai needs banned! He has been saying negative things all night.

Rubystars · « **Reply #17 on:** February 12, 2012, 01:49:58 AM »

I think Dr. Dan was just trying to raise a topic of discussion, which is a good thing to do on a message board.

Ephraim Ben Noach · « **Reply #18 on:** February 12, 2012, 01:57:22 AM »

This guy is a troll!

The Noachide · « **Reply #19 on:** February 12, 2012, 11:20:57 AM »

The act of homosexuality is clearly a sin. No ifs, ands, or buts.

Rubystars · « **Reply #20 on:** February 12, 2012, 12:52:28 PM »

Quote from: The Noachide on February 12, 2012, 11:20:57 AM

The act of homosexuality is clearly a sin. No ifs, ands, or buts.

The Noachide · « **Reply #21 on:** February 12, 2012, 01:39:37 PM »

Hehe, I was careful not to put a double t in that word.

Rubystars · « **Reply #22 on:** February 12, 2012, 01:47:19 PM »

Quote from: The Noachide on February 12, 2012, 01:39:37 PM

Hehe, I was careful not to put a double t in that word.

Yeah it was still funny though. I watched Beavis and Butthead too much as a teenager not to notice something like that. when I read your post I imagined their signature laughter.