A New Low For Moshe Feiglin

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According to http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=260317

"Feiglin to meet with Likud gay group"
" Leader Evan Cohen says of Manhigut Yehudit head Feiglin: ‘He’s probably a lot more liberal than people would like to believe.’ "

Rabbi Meir Kahane in contrast to Moshe Feiglin, would never consider giving any type of public legitimacy to the Homos.
I am bringing this up because there are some Kahanists that hold on to the wish that Feiglin might be a substitute for Rabbi Kahane.

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This current statement of Feiglin should be added to what Feiglin had said after the arrest of some nationalist Rabbis for "incitement". Although he was against those arrests, for some side reasons, he goes on to say that he too would favor using the State against Rabbis who made a convincing case that the words of Vayikra/Leviticus 20:13 are to be taken literally.
This is not his exact words but my reading between the lines.
For the exact quote, read http://www.jewishpressads.com/pageroute.do/49106/

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Thanks to Jtf Feiglin ended up backing down from his plan
http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=260482
The Jerusalem Post even quoted JTF

The Post article about Feiglin was picked up by many blogs. On the Kahanist Jewish Task Force website, “Senior JTFer” called Feiglin’s willingness to meet with the gay group “a new low.”

“Rabbi Meir Kahane in contrast to Moshe Feiglin, would never consider giving any type of public legitimacy to the Homos,” he wrote.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

It's hard to be a fan of a man who dissed the saints Yigal Amir and Dr. Goldstein in the name of political correctness. He's not as bad as Lewinsky or Hitler--but neither is Mitt Romney.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Thanks to Jtf Feiglin ended up backing down from his plan
http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=260482
The Jerusalem Post even quoted JTF

Wow, that was quick.    Maybe you wrote the article lol, if so good job.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I am bringing this up because there are some Kahanists that hold on to the wish that Feiglin might be a substitute for Rabbi Kahane.

I don't understand this kind of language though.   What does it mean to be a substitute for another person?    Unfortunately, Rabbi Kahane has passed away, and he could never be replaced.    What's it got to do with Moshe Feiglin or anyone else?   

Feiglin says in the article that he warned them he'd meet with them but they wouldn't like what he had to say, and in the past he has said he's a "proud homophobe."    Attacking Feiglin on homosexuality seems pretty misplaced, but it's a stroke of good fortune that you posted it right away and then the jerusalem post quoted you in the article giving some attention to JTF.

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 Kahane-Was-Right BT
stated

I don't understand this kind of language though.   What does it mean to be a substitute for another person?    Unfortunately, Rabbi Kahane has passed away, and he could never be replaced.    What's it got to do with Moshe Feiglin or anyone else?   

Several Kahanists, for example, Shmuel Sacket have gone over to helping Moshe Feiglin, as the
next best option, after Rabbi Kahane was assasinated.
I was referring to Kahanists like him, who might be tempted as seeing Feiglin as the way to go.
quote 2

Feiglin says in the article that he warned them he'd meet with them but they wouldn't like what he had to say, and in the past he has said he's a "proud homophobe."    Attacking Feiglin on homosexuality seems pretty misplaced

As the headlines of the Jpost article made clear, just meeting with them would give the Homos some legitimacy, regardless of what he might feel on a personal level. In other words, he was trying to make public policy calling for tolerance and legitimization for the homo lifestyle.
Or maybe I'll give another example to make it clear. When Israeli politicians met with the PLO officials they could protest all day long how they are against specific terror acts of the group, but once they already met with them they gave the "kosher approval" to our allies that the PLO is Okay.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Kahane-Was-Right BT
stated 
Several Kahanists, for example, Shmuel Sacket have gone over to helping Moshe Feiglin, as the
next best option, after Rabbi Kahane was assasinated.
I was referring to Kahanists like him, who might be tempted as seeing Feiglin as the way to go.
quote 2As the headlines of the Jpost article made clear, just meeting with them would give the Homos some legitimacy, regardless of what he might feel on a personal level. In other words, he was trying to make public policy calling for tolerance and legitimization for the homo lifestyle.
Or maybe I'll give another example to make it clear. When Israeli politicians met with the PLO officials they could protest all day long how they are against specific terror acts of the group, but once they already met with them they gave the "kosher approval" to our allies that the PLO is Okay.

That's not true though.  Meeting with the PLO wasn't what gave legitimacy.  It was the context under which it was done and the premise behind it.  Rabbi Kahane said a million times, "I will meet with arafat and tell him NO."   They met with him to tell him yes. Or they were simply unable to really say no to him. And they met for "peace talks."  I think its a bit paranoid to think feiglin is trying to make pro-gay public policy especially for a guy who goes around saying "I'm a proud homophobe."

On shmuel sackett, I'm not sure what to say to that.  What would you prefer Sackett do instead?  If he's saying feiglin is a "replacement" for the Rav, that makes no sense.  But I also don't see how people like him cannot be expected to move on with their lives.  I personally don't have a problem with feiglin overall even if he's not a Kahanist.  There are others like that too (aryeh eldad off the top of my head)

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Kahane-was-Right-Bt
stated:

That's not true though.  Meeting with the PLO wasn't what gave legitimacy.  It was the context under which it was done and the premise behind it.  Rabbi Kahane said a million times, "I will meet with arafat and tell him NO."   They met with him to tell him yes. Or they were simply unable to really say no to him. And they met for "peace talks."  I think its a bit paranoid to think feiglin is trying to make pro-gay public policy especially for a guy who goes around saying "I'm a proud homophobe."

I believe you are misrepresenting, Rabbi Kahane. Rabbi Kahane was the Rabbi of Baruch Goldstein. If you read the Hebrew Version, of Rabbi Kahane's Ohr Haraayon, page 274, it is clear that Rabbi Kahane wanted Arafat executed and not left around, as a debating partner to just say NO to.
If that doesn't convince you here's a quote from an anti-Kahanist web site
http://www.adl.org/extremism/jdl_chron.asp which lists the "crimes" of the JDL when it was under the influence of Rabbi Kahane.

A JDL member was sentenced to three years in federal prison in New York following his guilty plea to charges of transporting a rifle across state lines. He had previously received a one-year suspended sentence following his 1975 conviction for threatening the life of PLO leader Yasir Arafat in 1974. Following that suspended sentence he had been placed on probation for four years.

Kahane-was-Right-Bt asked:

What would you prefer Sackett do instead?

One thing he could do is join JTF, which unlike Feiglin takes a more clearer stand against the Homos and takes a much clearer stand against Muslim fanatics.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Kahane-was-Right-Bt
stated: I believe you are misrepresenting, Rabbi Kahane. Rabbi Kahane was the Rabbi of Baruch Goldstein. If you read the Hebrew Version, of Rabbi Kahane's Ohr Haraayon, page 274, it is clear that Rabbi Kahane wanted Arafat executed and not left around, as a debating partner to just say NO to.
If that doesn't convince you here's a quote from an anti-Kahanist web site
http://www.adl.org/extremism/jdl_chron.asp which lists the "crimes" of the JDL when it was under the influence of Rabbi Kahane.Kahane-was-Right-Bt asked: One thing he could do is join JTF, which unlike Feiglin takes a more clearer stand against the Homos and takes a much clearer stand against Muslim fanatics.

How can I be misrepresenting Rabbi Kahane when I have seen and heard him say in many interviews everyone is saying we can't meet with the plo, I will meet with arafat and tell him no.  Not one inch.  (Something along those lines). Is an antikahanist website to be trusted over the rabbi's own words?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

In addition:  perhaps he did want arafat executed, as any decent person should have wanted.  That doesn't preclude meeting with him.  Especially when the intended purpose of the meeting is to essentially spit in his face (proverbially).   The very weakness across the whole israeli political spectrum from right to left (you know, back when it was political consensus that plo was a terrorist group and we don't negotiate with terrorists) was that they couldn't face up to arafat because deep down they have no argument against his claims and ultimately they do accept his spurious invocations of so-called "justice". The secular isareli non-Torah mindset left them no alternative.  Eventually they not only met arafat but agreed to his extortion as the Rabbi wisely saw this would happen because their refusal to meet was based on their fear to embrace the true jewish national Torah ethos.   It was fear of the consequences of meeting with him - it was not a principled refusal to do so because of what he stood for and what claims he had - eventually they simply accepted the consequences and dealt with his claims.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

And lastly I fail to see the relevance of the trumped up charges brought against a jdl member.  All kahanists should hate arafat and wanted him dead similar to feelings about  the current plo chairman

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Kahane-was-Right-BT
quote:

In addition:  perhaps he did want arafat executed, as any decent person should have wanted.  That doesn't preclude meeting with him.  Especially when the intended purpose of the meeting is to essentially spit in his face (proverbially).

It does not appear you read the Hebrew Page in Ohr Haraayon that I referred you to.
I will translate one of the milder statements Rabbi Kahane wrote on this page.
"However, if a Gentile in the land of Israel hits or damages {alt. translation, commits terror) against a Jew on the basis of a national conflict, behold his intention is that he does not accept the sovereignty of the Jews in the land, and the hit that he hit him symbolizes his aspiration to uproot or destroy the Jew and to inherit the land of Israel, certainly this type of Gentile is liable to death, by any one that sees him and it is forbidden to delay, and he that is diligent behold it is praiseworthy, despite the control of the cheap kingdom in the land and the wailing of the jackals that destroy the vineyards".
Even the much more moderate, Chief Ashkenazi Rabbi of Israel, Shlomo Goren made a similar public statement that it was a Mitzva upon any individual that had the ability to Eliminate Arafat, even without authorization of the government.

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For all the "hotheads" out there on the net, you should be aware that the government of Israel and the government of the USA are probably worse than they were in the days of Rabbi Kahane.
See for example http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/133081
That may be why some Kahanists are calling for more moderate tactics for our times.
I myself do not wish to take a side in this debate.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Kahane-was-Right-BT
quote: It does not appear you read the Hebrew Page in Ohr Haraayon that I referred you to.
I will translate one of the milder statements Rabbi Kahane wrote on this page.
"However, if a Gentile in the land of Israel hits or damages {alt. translation, commits terror) against a Jew on the basis of a national conflict, behold his intention is that he does not accept the sovereignty of the Jews in the land, and the hit that he hit him symbolizes his aspiration to uproot or destroy the Jew and to inherit the land of Israel, certainly this type of Gentile is liable to death, by any one that sees him and it is forbidden to delay, and he that is diligent behold it is praiseworthy, despite the control of the cheap kingdom in the land and the wailing of the jackals that destroy the vineyards".
Even the much more moderate, Chief Ashkenazi Rabbi of Israel, Shlomo Goren made a similar public statement that it was a Mitzva upon any individual that had the ability to Eliminate Arafat, even without authorization of the government.

Oh good gracious, do you really think I'm arguing against that?  Of course arafat was liable to death.  But RABBI KAHANE HIMSELF (not some present day "kahanist") said that he will meet with arafat and tell him no.  I saw that in multiple interviews/speeches.  And he said that because he knew why the govt refused to meet with the plo - because they do not have an answer without the Torah.