Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Shalom
muman613:
I too find this guy to be a fool who is attempting to discredit Judaism. I would not even listen to a word he says knowing his opinion.
We have discussed the pros and cons of the Zohar many times. There is much good in the Zohar and I have never heard anything which contradicts the Torah in it.
There is something fishy when one Rabbi attempts to paint himself as the one authentic Jewish Rabbi and all the rest are fakers. I have learned from many Rabbis and I know what is authentic Judaism and what is false. I have studied Torah for almost 10 years and have a lot of sources to draw from, and the Zohar and Chassidic and Sephardic Judaism are as Authentic Judaism as it gets.
I don't know what a Rambamist is? Is that something someone made up? I just spent all weekend with one of my favorite Chabad Rabbis who revealed he studies Rambam every day. Does this make him a Rambamist?
And the comment about Gilgul is completely ignorant in my opinion. That you think that you get another chance just like that? Your challenges in the next life are going to be a real test according to your weekness... It is not something to wish on yourself..
Also I have not met a Rabbi who says that the Halacha is that we should not offer the Pesach. Even according to Chabads own Halacha page it is discussed, and if you listen to the Chabad Rabbis it is clear that we want to rebuild the Temple and offer the Pesach offering. I do not listen to anything other than Orthodox Rabbis and I do not share the opinion of several posters of them..
Tag-MehirTzedek:
--- Quote from: muman613 on April 08, 2012, 11:28:48 PM ---I have learned from many Rabbis and I know what is authentic Judaism and what is false. I have studied Torah for almost 10 years and have a lot of sources to draw from, and the Zohar and Chassidic and Sephardic Judaism are as Authentic Judaism as it gets.
--- End quote ---
What does that exactly mean? By authentic do you mean to say "accepted"? And who says that having numbers (in theory) makes an idea or ideas correct or not? You need to prove your claims.
--- Quote from: muman613 on April 08, 2012, 11:28:48 PM --- I don't know what a Rambamist is? Is that something someone made up? I just spent all weekend with one of my favorite Chabad Rabbis who revealed he studies Rambam every day. Does this make him a Rambamist?
--- End quote ---
They are people who follow the Rambam in both philosophy and Halacha. And no a Chabadnik is farrrr from a Rambamist. For the most part a mirror opposite. Rambamists are rationalists in the strictist sense. Chabad are Hassids who are more on the mystical side.
--- Quote from: muman613 on April 08, 2012, 11:28:48 PM ---
Also I have not met a Rabbi who says that the Halacha is that we should not offer the Pesach. Even according to Chabads own Halacha page it is discussed, and if you listen to the Chabad Rabbis it is clear that we want to rebuild the Temple and offer the Pesach offering. I do not listen to anything other than Orthodox Rabbis and I do not share the opinion of several posters of them..
--- End quote ---
Maybe you havn't but I heard a number of them. Just in fact I heard it this Yom Tov as well.
"Of them"- Serveral of the posters including myself are Orthodox. If of them you mean generally Haredim, then yes you can count me in. I will openly state the Charedi ideology will not move forward and get things done. It just won't happen.
Temple? Korbanot? Jewish state? These things do not exist in the Haredi ideology. Not in the present. Maybe in the distant past and only a fantasy for the future, but only a fantasy. NOT in actual deed.
And about Rabbis is Rabbi Elyashiv not Haredi enough?
http://www.haaretz.com/news/prominent-rabbi-to-peres-jews-forbidden-on-temple-mount-1.6463
muman613:
I agree there is a great disagreement about whether Jews can go to the Temple mount.
As I said I listen to Rabbi Richman who discusses this issue quite a bit.
http://www.templeinstitute.org/aliya_temple_mount.htm
Here is Rabbi Richmans response to Rabbis who oppose Jews on the Temple mount:
"Chief rabbis prohibit Jews from entering Temple Mount" (Jan. 19) took a minimalistic approach to a complicated and vastly misunderstood issue. Like other matters of complex and erudite Torah knowledge, the subject of the Temple Mount is an area in which one must have an expertise before issuing a judgment. Unfortunately, it is an area of study that has been largely neglected, even by Torah authorities. To say that there is a prohibition against Jews visiting the Temple Mount is misleading and inaccurate, and does a serious injustice to the many religious Jews, great rabbis among them, who do ascend the Mount today in strict accordance with all the requirements of Jewish law, based for example on the previous halachic ruling of the great Radbaz (Rabbi David ben Zimra, 1479-1573). Any religious ruling must be firmly based on Torah law and must be substantiated; authentic rulings cannot be based on opinion, feelings, or alleged security concerns. No group of rabbis have the authority to uproot a Torah law, and according to the "due process" of the formation of halacha, a religious ruling must be based on sources. It should be noted that the great codifier Maimonides establishes as a positive commandment that showing proper reverance (morah mikdash) to the holy site of the Temple Mount even in its present state of disrepair means, for example, "entering into the permitted areas" (Maim. Hilchot Beit HaBechira Ch. 7, 7). Indeed, Maimonidies himself - in the tradition of the great sages of Israel - ascended to the Temple Mount, in spite of great personal danger, and prayed there. He gives the date as the sixth day of Cheshvan and writes that he was so moved to have "entered into the great and holy house and prayed there on the sixth of Cheshvan... and I vowed an oath, that I will always celebrate this day as a personal festival, to be marked by prayer and rejoicing in G-d, and by a festive meal (Maimonides, Letters).
Anyone seeking information regarding how to ascend the Temple Mount in accordance with Jewish law may contact us at [email protected]. Further information is available at www.templeinstitute.org
Rabbi Chaim Richman
Director, The International Department
The Temple Institute
Jerusalem"
PS: All the Chabad Rabbis I know consider Maimonides to be a central Jewish authority. There is nothing about Rambam which precludes belief in the more mystical aspects of Judaism.
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1806271/jewish/Audio-Classes-on-Maimonides.htm
http://www.rabbiwein.com/Rashi-and-Rambam-Two-Worldviews--3-Lectures-P174.html
http://www.torahcafe.com/jewishvideo.php?vid=4125bb847
Tag-MehirTzedek:
"PS: All the Chabad Rabbis I know consider Maimonides to be a central Jewish authority. There is nothing about Rambam which precludes belief in the more mystical aspects of Judaism."
I said mystical in order to be nice. Its also more of irrational aspects as well of Chabad. Anyway the Rambamists are usually rationalists to the extreme. Also the writings of the Rambam are much more geared for rationalism and looking at the world much more logical sense, than suppose Chassidic or Kabbalistic works (and i'm familiar with some of them, not saying they are bad just the styles are complelty different.) The Rambam also includes some esoteric things but not really in the sense and style of lets say Chassidut or the kabbalists. (And in fact was against some of the kabbalist books going around even before the Zohar which today are fully accepted by the kabbalists as is the Zohar.)
edu:
Dan Ben Noah stated:
--- Quote ---Clearly, when verses 29-30 talk about turning someone away from "the pit" two or three times, it is talking about G-d giving them multiple chances to escape the death of their souls through repentance, NOT through reincarnation. The hypothetical sinner in the passage does not actually die, he is kept from death through circumstances G-d graciously gives him in order to encourage him to repent. 1. This should just be obvious from the plain meaning of the text. 2. Repentance is a doctrine that is spiritually beneficial because it actually encourages people to be good. 3. Reincarnation is a doctrine that is spiritually harmful because if true, people don't have to be good because they'll get a another chance in another life.
Now let's look at Genesis 38:8
Genesis 38:8 Then Judah said to Onan, “Sleep with your brother’s wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to raise up offspring for your brother.”
This is the custom of levirate marriage in order to ensure a man has children to carry on his name. Not multiple lives. I'm not even sure how this could be connected to reincarnation.
--- End quote ---
Someone like Rabbi Saadia Gaon might indeed interpret the verses like you did, Dan.
However, let's take the first quote from Iyov/Job. The context of the passage, was in light of the bigger question of the whole book, how can it be that you sometimes see in this world, a righteous person who suffers. Ramban (Nachmanides) interpreted the verse as answering that a person might be reincarnated and come back to a situation where he suffers in a new life as an atonement for what he did in a previous life and so Iyov was being told, even though now you are a righteous man, don't question G-d about your suffering, because perhaps in a previous life you did some evil deed that needs now atonement through suffering.
In other words, according to Ramban's view, belief in reincarnation actually helps strenghten the observance of commandments by convincing those that see suffering that G-d indeed is a true and fair judge.
You Dan, might have a different solution to the question of Why Bad Things Happen To Good People.
I am just trying to fairly represent Ramban's opinion here.
As far as the quote from Breishit/Genesis, Ramban understood to answer several problems with the text, that the Levirate Law of Marriage (Yibum) helps the soul of the departed brother via reincarnation.
As I said before other great Rabbis interpreted the text differently and you are free to adopt whichever interpretation, you find more truthful. I am just bringing this up, to show that Ramban's viewpoint is not ridiculous.
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