Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Shalom
Zelhar:
--- Quote from: muman613 on April 09, 2012, 01:05:05 PM ---Is it not funny that a non-Jew is telling Jews what is more Jewish? I find it ironic..
Have you ever heard of Chutzpah? Ever learn what Lashon Hara is?
Im just waiting for the esteemed Dan to start attacking the Talmud as satanic...
--- End quote ---
What's your problem man, why won't you compile a reply based on the content rather then the person who expressed it ?
Tag-MehirTzedek:
--- Quote from: muman613 on April 09, 2012, 01:05:05 PM ---Have you ever heard of Chutzpah? Ever learn what Lashon Hara is?
--- End quote ---
What he said was/is not Lashon Hara.
muman613:
--- Quote from: Tag-MahirTzedek on April 09, 2012, 01:31:34 PM --- What he said was/is not Lashon Hara.
--- End quote ---
Yes, as he is not a Jew he is not capable of Lashon Hara. But what he has done is defamed an entire segment of Jewish identity.
There is no comparison between the Zohar and the book of Mormon... Such comparison sounds almost like the claim by the Jew haters that our Oral Tradition is satanic. The Zohar is the source of a lot of the Jewish mysticism but it is surely not the singular source as the Torah and the Oral law are replete with mystical content.
As was discussed in the forum so many times, there has always been the PaRDeS system of interpreting the Torah, the Pshat {simple meaning} the Remes, the Drash, and the Sod {Hidden/mystical}.
I find it funny that a Rationalist doesn't find it odd to believe in Angels and in Miracles which the Torah and the Oral law, and even RAMBAM discusses. Today a 'rationalist' who needs a rational answer for every mitzvot would find RAMBAM to be not so rational when it comes to two of his THIRTEEN PRINCIPLES, these being:
9) I believe with absolute faith in the ressurection of the dead
10) I believe with absolute faith in the coming of Moshiach, and though he delays I wait every day.
These two, where are they in the Torah? Neither the Ressurection nor Moshiach coming are discussed unless you look into deeper sources such as the Talmud.
I am working today but I hope to expound further arguments which support so-called 'mystical' beliefs of Judaism. I have accepted that all the Zohar is not what it seems, but this is not a reason to discount it entirely.
Zelhar:
Muman you are right about principles 9,10. And not all Jews agree on them for that reason.
Personally I think 9 is a fairy tail that cannot be positively proved from our holly scripture. As for 10 well it doesn't necessarily mean something entirely supernatural. And there is not a word about either 9 or 10 in the Torah. It's all based on a certain way of understanding certain prophetical passages in the bible and on a whole lot of imagination piled up on that over the years.
But anyway it's just my own secular opinion and I don't have any authority to say what the proper Jewish opinion should be.
muman613:
One bit I wanted to post was about Rambams opinion on Techiyat HaMatim/Resurrection of the Dead:
http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books/to-live-and-live-again/02.htm
--- Quote ---Rambam's Definition
In his Discourse on the Resurrection,[2] Rambam writes: "The concept of Resurrection - which is well known among our people and accepted throughout all its circles, and which is often mentioned in the prayers and aggadic teachings and supplications (written by the prophets and the foremost Sages) with which the Talmud and the Midrashim are replete - signifies the following: The soul will return to the body after they have been separated [by death]. No Jew has disputed this concept, and it cannot be interpreted other than literally. One may not accept the view of any Jew who believes otherwise.
"As I shall explain in the present discourse: Why should we not interpret these verses [regarding the Resurrection] allegorically, as we have done with many other Biblical verses, departing from their literal meaning? The reason is as follows: The concept of Resurrection, namely, that the soul will return to the body after death, is expressed by Daniel[3] in such a manner that it cannot be interpreted other than literally: 'Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awaken, some to everlasting life, and some to reproach and everlasting contempt.' Daniel was likewise told by the angel,[4] 'Now go your way to the end and rest, and you shall arise to your destiny at the end of days.'"
The Talmud[5] teaches that those who deny Resurrection will have no share in the World to Come, and Rambam in Mishneh Torah[6] rules that this teaching has the authority of Halachah.
Notes:
1) This is the 13th and last of Rambam's Principles of Faith, in the paraphrased form that many Siddurim append to the morning prayers. (In their original form, the Principles appear in the Rambam's introduction to his Commentary on the Mishnah of Sanhedrin, ch. 10.) See also Maimonides' Principles by Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan (N.C.S.Y.).
2) Maamar Techiyas HaMeisim, (also known as Iggeres Techiyas HaMeisim - Letter on the Resurrection), beginning of ch. 4.
3) Daniel 12:2.
4) Ibid., v. 13.
5) Sanhedrin 90a.
6) Hilchos Teshuvah 3:6.
--- End quote ---
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