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Tag-MehirTzedek:

--- Quote from: muman613 on April 22, 2012, 04:51:30 PM ---Well that is only namecalling and not addressing the issue. I will address the Jewish view on Astrology in a future thread. There are points I disagree with Rambam concerning this based on various sources I will bring.

--- End quote ---

 He did address the issue. He was pointing out that Rambam's view of those who believed in astrology.
 You also claimed that the Rambam didn't address the issue, he precisly DID, check out the link I provided (ps. please don't take it personally and be offended).

muman613:

--- Quote from: Tag-MahirTzedek on April 22, 2012, 05:34:31 PM --- He did address the issue. He was pointing out that Rambam's view of those who believed in astrology.
 You also claimed that the Rambam didn't address the issue, he precisly DID, check out the link I provided (ps. please don't take it personally and be offended).

--- End quote ---

I have not fully read the link you provided but upon a simple examination it does not seem to address these particular statements of the Torah and the Talmud which support the idea that there is some truth in the forces of nature. Is there an argument that the forces of gravity and the forces of magnetism, while invisible, still do not exist? All of nature exists according to the laws of nature.

I will continue my point in the thread I will start this evening or tomorrow. I can understand how it seems strange to say what I am saying but it is from the Torah and it should be discussed.

I already posted the links to the Talmud and other sources for the Torah view of Mazal. It is from these sources I will explain this idea.

muman613:

--- Quote from: Dan Ben Noah on April 22, 2012, 06:00:23 PM ---Without having looked too far into it yet, in history there was a time when there really wasn't a separation of astronomy and astrology, so astrology may have just been taken for granted by certain Sages of the Talmud times, similar to the way Rambam accepted certain scientific knowledge from the Greeks which is now outdated, which he included in some of the Mishneh Torah chapters.  That's what I believe this to be.  I certainly don't think the Torah teaches that astrology is authentic but Jews just aren't supposed to use it.  And the fact that there is Halacha telling them not to consult astrologers shows how HaShem has safeguarded the Jewish people against falsehood even when it was a common belief of the times.  But I could see how the mystical movements could sieze upon these Talmudic discussions and come up with a whole developed astrological theology which has no practical benefit for Judaism, because that's the type of thing they are in the business of doing.

--- End quote ---

Hashem doesn't need to forbid us from something which has no truth. People do not believe something unless it has worked for them. As I have discussed previously the Torah even relates that the Egyptians consulted astrologers to forecast the coming of the Jewish savior. This again proves the point that those who consult the stars are doomed to be judged by the stars, while the Jewish people, as promised to Abraham our father, are above the stars.

Tag-MehirTzedek:

--- Quote from: muman613 on April 22, 2012, 08:58:09 PM ---Hashem doesn't need to forbid us from something which has no truth.

--- End quote ---

 Yes He does. Idolatry has no truth and its completly forbidden.

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