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Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Isaac Luria was a Vatican plant?
« Reply #50 on: May 16, 2012, 04:16:08 PM »
Muman I would like you to address this point especially with the part of Rav Kahane vs. the "mystics" and those who for example blame terrorism on immodesty. Who would we agree with? People like Rav Kahane who say and dealt with the real world or those who don't want to deal with it and divert the blame and the solution unot things completly having nothing to do with the situation. And our point is its precisly these attitudes and culture that has (partly) produced the incompetence of the Jewish world in not being able to deal with our problems (for example Arab terrorism). - An additional thing I can add is those who preach "reincarnation" in trying to explain why bad sh^t happens. That little boy that died he was really a reincarnated soul that had to die (this is a type of answer given, and in fact this is what a speaker told a mother who had a child die once)
 http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,61383.msg545389.html#msg545389
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Isaac Luria was a Vatican plant?
« Reply #51 on: May 16, 2012, 04:35:10 PM »
Connected to this topic

 4. This outrageous phenomenon is not as surprising as it may at first seem. Shabtai Ssvi’s followers were known as “Zoharisten”, an allusion to the fact that they, like their leader and demigod, were heavily influenced by the Zohar. Lubavitch Hasidism is rooted in a literalistic reading of the Zohar and Lurianic Qabala, which when uncritically combined with the radical and pernicious notions spawned by the speculative school of Hasidic thought founded by the Magid of Mezritch, could only have led to the present heretical state of affairs.
 
5. This, I believe, is why the Gr’a z’l (the Vilna Gaon) refused to meet with the original Lubavitcher rebbe even when the latter came to Vilna to convince him to rescind the herem (religious ban) the Gr’a had signed against Lubavitch and similar movements. In his great and profound wisdom the Gr’a saw that these Jews had crossed the point of no return. The Gr’a was able to be “HaRo’e eth haNoladh (One who sees that which is yet to come)” (see Avoth 2:12 or 2:9).

http://machonshilo.org/en/eng/list-ask-the-rav/31-general/424-the-false-mashiah-of-lubavitch-habad
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline muman613

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Re: Isaac Luria was a Vatican plant?
« Reply #52 on: May 16, 2012, 04:38:39 PM »
Muman I would like you to address this point especially with the part of Rav Kahane vs. the "mystics" and those who for example blame terrorism on immodesty. Who would we agree with? People like Rav Kahane who say and dealt with the real world or those who don't want to deal with it and divert the blame and the solution unot things completly having nothing to do with the situation. And our point is its precisly these attitudes and culture that has (partly) produced the incompetence of the Jewish world in not being able to deal with our problems (for example Arab terrorism). - An additional thing I can add is those who preach "reincarnation" in trying to explain why bad sh^t happens. That little boy that died he was really a reincarnated soul that had to die (this is a type of answer given, and in fact this is what a speaker told a mother who had a child die once)
 http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,61383.msg545389.html#msg545389

It is my understanding that we have to do our part in this world and not rely on miracles. The problem with the terrorists is due to our not protecting our interests and our heritage in the way we should do so. But I also am of the belief that bad things happen as a result of things which we do which are not according to the will of Hashem. This is why Chazal look for alternative answers as to why such things happen. This is expressed in the story of Purim when the evil decree was blamed on the fact that the Jewish people were willing to party with the evil king and Haman, using the Holy vessels of the Temple. There is also the wisdom that the Second Temple was destroyed because of 'Baseless Hatred' {Talmud Yoma 9b}.

Divine Providence is beyond our comprehension. Why bad things happen to good people is one of those things which we mortals will apparently never be able to grasp. In my own life it is a nagging question why my brother was among the 3000 killed in the 9/11 attacks. I would have never dreamed this would happen, and especially to my own family.

My brother was the 'good son' in our family while I was shaping up to be the 'bad son'. My brother took care of my parents financially and visited my mother regularly. Apparently according to the Torah he should have been rewarded with a long life {one of the promises for keeping the command to give Kavod to parents}. But upon closer inspection I could find things about his honoring which fell short of complete honor {for instance his respect for our father was not what it should have been}. My brother probrobly never affixed a mezuzah nor did he ever wear tzittzits or tefillin. Any one of these could be reasons why he was taken from us in this world.

I know that my personal experience is that divine providence is protecting me. Since my Teshuva I have felt this and have witnessed miracles which have saved my life...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Isaac Luria was a Vatican plant?
« Reply #53 on: May 16, 2012, 04:39:30 PM »
Connected to this topic

 4. This outrageous phenomenon is not as surprising as it may at first seem. Shabtai Ssvi’s followers were known as “Zoharisten”, an allusion to the fact that they, like their leader and demigod, were heavily influenced by the Zohar. Lubavitch Hasidism is rooted in a literalistic reading of the Zohar and Lurianic Qabala, which when uncritically combined with the radical and pernicious notions spawned by the speculative school of Hasidic thought founded by the Magid of Mezritch, could only have led to the present heretical state of affairs.
 
5. This, I believe, is why the Gr’a z’l (the Vilna Gaon) refused to meet with the original Lubavitcher rebbe even when the latter came to Vilna to convince him to rescind the herem (religious ban) the Gr’a had signed against Lubavitch and similar movements. In his great and profound wisdom the Gr’a saw that these Jews had crossed the point of no return. The Gr’a was able to be “HaRo’e eth haNoladh (One who sees that which is yet to come)” (see Avoth 2:12 or 2:9).

http://machonshilo.org/en/eng/list-ask-the-rav/31-general/424-the-false-mashiah-of-lubavitch-habad

More slander against Chabad and Chassidim in general. I knew there were issues with this guy.... You can have him but I place no trust in anything this guy says.... It is obvious he is one who lacks a Jewish soul and engages in Slander regularly.
 
And it has been discussed many times that Chabad does not believe that Rebbe was Moshiach. This is pure slander on the part of a small man...
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Isaac Luria was a Vatican plant?
« Reply #54 on: May 16, 2012, 04:45:08 PM »
The traits of a Jewish soul:

http://ohr.edu/3194

Yevamot 79a
"There are three characteristics which distinguish the Jewish People — they are merciful, they are bashful and they are performers of acts of kindness."

This is how King David described his people to the Givonites who demanded the execution of seven sons of King Saul as revenge for their suffering at his hand.

"Only one who has these three characteristics," he concluded, "is fit to attach himself to our people."

Since the unreasonable demand of the Givonites demonstrated that they lacked these characteristics, David ruled that they would have the special status of netinim and would be limited in their marriage eligibility within the Jewish People.

Although the impression gained here is that all these characteristics are in the “genes” of the Jews, it is pointed out by Maharsha that this is not the case. It is true that G-d testified that the Patriarch Avraham would pass on to his posterity a legacy of lovingkindness (Bereishet 18:19) but the other attributes were unique gifts of G-d to His chosen people. "He will endow you with a capacity for being merciful" (Devarim 13.18) was a special gift from G-d, as was the bashfulness that came along with the gift of Torah (Shmot 20:17).
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Isaac Luria was a Vatican plant?
« Reply #55 on: May 16, 2012, 04:52:22 PM »
More slander against Chabad and Chassidim in general. I knew there were issues with this guy.... You can have him but I place no trust in anything this guy says.... It is obvious he is one who lacks a Jewish soul and engages in Slander regularly.
 
And it has been discussed many times that Chabad does not believe that Rebbe was Moshiach. This is pure slander on the part of a small man...

 Why? Why can't you answer things and just call things that you disagree with as slander and lashon hara?
 What is untrue of the facts? For example the Vilna Gaon put them into Herem? Did that not happen?

 (I just read the rest - what you modified) and your the one engaging against slandering Rav Bar-Hayim Shlitta. Your doing the things your accusing him of doing.
 
 Your going to tell me that their aren't chabadniks who don't believe in this? Have you heard about 770 and what goes on there? Do you want me to open a new topic or just post here?
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Isaac Luria was a Vatican plant?
« Reply #56 on: May 16, 2012, 04:57:53 PM »
Something that was posted
 "I just got home from a Chabad wedding in Bnei Brak. Yuck!
It seems that the "meshichistiyut" has gotten REALLY out of hand. The chuppah began with the reading of a letter "from the Rebbe", AS IF it were addressed to the couple! Then ther was a video (really, a photo slide show w/sound track) of the late Rebbe's wedding, followed by a speech he made at someone else's wedding before he died. All this is strange, but it's just make-believe; if they want to pretend some advice given by one person to another is also meant for them, so what? But the next thing was over the top!

The chasson shouted "Yechi adoneinu v'moreinu...," etc. 3 times, and each time the crowd shouted "Amen!" Several of my friends and myself covered our ears and turned our backs from such a feeling of avodah zarah....

The singing and dancing was disturbing, too. Seems they've put their dead Rebbe into many (if not all) of the songs, so instead of "David, Melech Yisrael, Chai, Chai...." for example, it was "Adoneinu v'Morenu, Melech Yisrael, Chai, Chai...." Other songs were similarly mutilated. And the flag dancing with those yellow melech hamoshiach flags looked more like something out of Southeast Asia than anything I'd seen before at a Jewish wedding."

 also on Israel613.com
 Go to the section on Chabad Lubavitch. You will see posters, video's and letters of this mess.

.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Isaac Luria was a Vatican plant?
« Reply #57 on: May 16, 2012, 05:01:52 PM »
This is kinda funny (yett sad)
 THE TRIAL OF THE THIRD MILLENIUM:

JE--S OF NAZARETH vs. THE REBBE

    JUDICIAL COURT  OF GEHINOMM
PATENTS SECTION

CASE OF THE DEAD MESSIAH

JE--- [ACCUSER]

VS

REBBE [DEFENDANT]
 
THE ACCUSER [JE--S] CLAIMS THAT DEFENDANT [THE REBBE] HAS BEEN STEALING HIS IDEAS  IN THE FOLLOWING MANNER:

-          THE REBBE AND HIS FOLLOWERS CLAIM THAT THE REBBE IS THE MESSIAH EVEN THOUGH HE PASSED AWAY YEARS AGO. IT HAS BEEN KNOWN TO EVERYONE THAT FOR THE PAST 2000 YEARS THE EXCLUSIVITY OF THE DEAD MESSIAH CONCEPT BELONGS TO JE--S AND HIS FOLLOWERS.

-          MOREOVER ACCUSER CLAIMS THAT THE FOLLOWERS OF THE REBBE ASSIGN HIM DIVINE STATUS SAYING THAT HE IS THE ESSENCE OF G-D AND IT IS KNOWN TO ALL THAT THIS CONCEPT OF DIVINITY BELONGS TO JE--S AND HIS FOLLOWERS, JE--S BEING THE SON OF G-D.

-         ACCUSER CLAIMS THAT THE REBBE HAS STOLEN FROM HIM THE PRACTICE OF PLACING HIS PICTURE EVERYWHERE BOTH WITHIN AND OUTSIDE THE CHURCHES.

-        THE ACCUSER CLAIMS THAT WITH THESE THEFTS THE FOLLOWERS OF THE REBBE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO GROW THEIR CHABAD HOUSES SO RAPIDLY [THERE ARE CURRENTLY 4.000] THAT WITHIN 50 YEARS THERE WILL BE MORE CHABAD HOUSES THAN CHRISTIAN CHURCHES IN THE WORLD.

-          ACCUSER CLAIMS THAT THE FOLLOWERS OF THE REBBE EXPECT HIS SECOND COMING IN ORDER TO COMPLETE HIS MISSION AS MESSIAH. THIS IDEA HAS ALSO BEEN STOLEN FROM JE--S AND HIS FOLLOWERS.

 WHAT THE ACCUSER REQUESTS:

-     THE ACCUSER ALSO REQUESTS AN IMMEDIATE INJUNCTION TO STOP ALL THE FOLLOWERS OF THE REBBE FROM CLINGING ANY DIVINITY TO THE REBBE.

-      ACCUSER REQUESTS THAT FOLLOWERS OF THE REBBE STOP SINGING YECHI ADONEINU MELECH HA MOSHIACH IMMEDIATELY.
 
 Israel613.com
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Isaac Luria was a Vatican plant?
« Reply #58 on: May 16, 2012, 05:07:10 PM »
Muman  (and those interested) look at this live video from Chabad themselves.
 Notice for example the banner on the wall. (when the camera gets to there) Take a look at the "new Beit Hamikdash" located in Brooklyn NY.
http://770live.com/En770/770live.asp?lang=1
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline muman613

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Re: Isaac Luria was a Vatican plant?
« Reply #59 on: May 16, 2012, 05:08:12 PM »
Something that was posted
 "I just got home from a Chabad wedding in Bnei Brak. Yuck!
It seems that the "meshichistiyut" has gotten REALLY out of hand. The chuppah began with the reading of a letter "from the Rebbe", AS IF it were addressed to the couple! Then ther was a video (really, a photo slide show w/sound track) of the late Rebbe's wedding, followed by a speech he made at someone else's wedding before he died. All this is strange, but it's just make-believe; if they want to pretend some advice given by one person to another is also meant for them, so what? But the next thing was over the top!

The chasson shouted "Yechi adoneinu v'moreinu...," etc. 3 times, and each time the crowd shouted "Amen!" Several of my friends and myself covered our ears and turned our backs from such a feeling of avodah zarah....

The singing and dancing was disturbing, too. Seems they've put their dead Rebbe into many (if not all) of the songs, so instead of "David, Melech Yisrael, Chai, Chai...." for example, it was "Adoneinu v'Morenu, Melech Yisrael, Chai, Chai...." Other songs were similarly mutilated. And the flag dancing with those yellow melech hamoshiach flags looked more like something out of Southeast Asia than anything I'd seen before at a Jewish wedding."

 also on Israel613.com
 Go to the section on Chabad Lubavitch. You will see posters, video's and letters of this mess.

I have said I am aware that there are those who are doing this. But this is not condoned by the Main Chabad organization. I know personally several Chabad Rabbis and have discussed this very issue with them.

I am satisfied that the Organization does not push this belief as can be seen by any Chabad website. I have never seen any suggestion that Rebbe was Moshiach on Chabad.org nor any local Chabad affiliate {here in the California area}.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Isaac Luria was a Vatican plant?
« Reply #60 on: May 16, 2012, 05:13:25 PM »
I have said I am aware that there are those who are doing this. But this is not condoned by the Main Chabad organization. I know personally several Chabad Rabbis and have discussed this very issue with them.

I am satisfied that the Organization does not push this belief as can be seen by any Chabad website. I have never seen any suggestion that Rebbe was Moshiach on Chabad.org nor any local Chabad affiliate {here in the California area}.



 You said this earlier " And it has been discussed many times that Chabad does not believe that Rebbe was Moshiach. This is pure slander on the part of a small man... "

 Now, how is this "pure slander".( What you said actually was and is, but I don't worry because I believe most if not all of the people reading this here would agree with me and not you.)
 I posted from the main headquarters of Chabad, something you can see now in live real time.
 You don't know (or don't want to know) what goes on there.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline muman613

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Re: Isaac Luria was a Vatican plant?
« Reply #61 on: May 16, 2012, 05:16:49 PM »
Here is the response from a discussion on this topic on Lazer Brodys site:



http://lazerbrody.typepad.com/lazer_beams/2011/06/the-lubavitcher-rebbe-on-faith.html

B"H

Avigail,

I was deeply saddened to read your posts against Chabad on Rabbi Brody's website. Unfortunately, the internet makes it possible for any person to go onto a beautiful blog such as Rabbi Brody's, and 'very publicly' smear an entire group of tens of thousands of Jews in one quick shot. Perhaps hundreds of thousands of Jews got smeared in one shot by your posts, if you consider all the Jews somehow affiliated around the world with a Chabad Shul. There are enough hate groups and anti-Semites on the web. And in recent times, mainstream media outlets in many countries are attacking Jews and Israel all over the internet like never before. It's not helpful for Jews to attack other Jews.

Please watch the video posted by Rabbi Brody again, and focus on the wonderful, inspirational message about emuna & bitachon (and thanking Hashem for both good and the seemingly bad), which the Lubavitcher Rebbe so eloquently spoke about in the video. Please don't turn Lazer Beams, which is a beacon of Light for all Jews, into your personal forum against tens of thousands of Jews across the world who follow the teachings of the Lubavitcher Rebbe. You obviously have an axe to grind against Chabad, but please keep this negativity to yourself. Rabbi Brody often teaches about how important it is for Jews to love all other Jews, even the ones we disagree with, and/or the ones whom are different on the surface. For example, Ashkenazi & Sephardic, or religious and not religious. In reality, we are all one. So let's have Ahavat Yisrael!

On Rabbi Brody's Emuna CD "Pipes of Abundance" he talks about how we have to be careful never to speak Lashon Hara against any other group of Jews, or any rabbi. The Lubavitcher Rebbe was one of the main people (whom you can count on one hand) responsible for reviving Judaism around the world from the ashes of Auschwitz. And he truly loved all Jews. And he taught his shliuchim to also love and accept all Jews.

Your first post against Chabad was extremely harsh, calling ugly names like "cult movement" and "breaching Halacha" and all sorts of other ugly stuff. Chabad is actually very strict about following all of the Halacha, by the way. Someone took the time to politely respond to your posts (you thought it was Rabbi Brody himself but it wasn't), and the intelligent response didn't settle it for you. It only launched you into some sort of "debate" with Rabbi Brody, and you wrote a much more vicious attack on Chabad, and G-d forbid it seems you may have been attacking the Lubavitcher Rebbe himself. The Lubavitcher Rebbe was one of the Torah giants of modern times. Almost all Jewish scholars agree on this. And it doesn't take a Torah scholar to know that he was one of the leaders of an entire generation, for our people. He loved ALL Jews and in one of his famous comments, he compared each Jew in the world to a diamond. You obviously have an axe to grind with Chabad, and everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, but please consider how much it damages Klal Yisrael when Jews attack other Jews, in any form.

When I watched that video the first time, what struck me most was how similar the Rebbe's message was back then to Rabbi Brody's own message today. B"H I feel the Lubavitcher Rebbe would be VERY proud to have Rabbi Brody and Rav Arush spreading the message of Emuna to the current generation.

Furthermore, everyone should know:

The first Rebbe of Chabad, the Alter Rebbe (the Baal HaTanya) defended Rabi Nachman and supported him in the machlokes against Rabi Nachman and said: "Rabi Nachman places himself in nisyonos, he is a great man, a mighty warrior." (Beis Rebbe)

Also:

* When R’ Nachman returned from Eretz Yisroel he went directly to the Baal HaTanya in White Russia (quite a distance out of his way) arriving before Shabbos Chazon (9 Av 5559 -1779) in Liozna. When the Chassidim found out that R’ Nachman had come to town they received him with great honor and came out to greet him dressed in their Shabbos clothing. The Alter Rebbe was overjoyed to welcome R’ Nachman, and they showed each other great closeness and love. They spoke for many hours, and after R’ Nachman declined to speak publicly, the Alter Rebbe delivered a maamar for six hours without stop.


* Once, the 6th Lubavitcher Rebbe (R’ Yosef Yitzchok), visited Teplik. Upon his arrival, all the Yidden came to greet him and brought kvitlach - and among them was a Breslover Chossid named R’ Elimelech Tepliker. The Rebbe Rayatz told him: “Everyone has seforim in their home, but when traveling, one only brings along the seforim that he uses regularly.” While saying these words, the Rebbe showed him that he had brought along his Likkutei Moharan.

* Also, the Previous Lubavitcher Rebbe (Rebbe Rayatz) had a sefer Likutei Halachos on his desk at the time of his passing.

Avigail, even the other Torah giants of our time such as the Baba Sali had the greatest respect and admiration for the Lubavitcher Rebbe. And these two great tzadikim used to communicate with each other in ways that you and I cannot even understand.

Let's not focus on whether the Rebbe is the mashiach or not, which you seem preoccupied with. As the person who responded to you on Rabbi Brody's site explained to you, most Chabad rabbis today do not focus on this. They are about making positive ACTIONS happen in the world today, and spreading Torah & Mitzvot to all Jews.

Perhaps the greatest legacy to the Rebbe is all the great work done around the world by his shliuchim. Applaud them for this. Don't knock down other Jews. If you visit Thailand or India or Tazmania or any number of far out places in the world, try getting a Kosher meal without going to a Chabad House, Avigail. :) The numerous families known as Chabad do many wonderful things in Chutz La'aretz and in Eretz Yisroel. They think of themselves as "Jews" first and foremost, and they are there to serve all Jews.

The oldest charity organization in Israel is Colel Chabad, which has been caring for Israel's needy since 1788. They have numerous programs around the world, helping Jewish prisoners, helping Jewish soldiers in the US Armed Forces, and on and on. http://www.Chabad.org is one of the largest places on the whole internet helping Jews to connect to Hashem in every imaginable way. See for yourself. There is no mention there of the Rebbe being the mashiach.. on any part of that huge site.

From Israeli backpackers in their twenties hiking through Thailand and Colombia when they come out of the army, to Satmar Chasidim traveling through China on business, Chabad helps Jews all over the world in any way they can! The murderers who killed the people at the Chabad House in Mumbai didn't go looking for "Chabad" in there.. they went hunting for Jewish blood. And is is often the case, a wide variety of Jews just happened to be visiting inside the Chabad House at the time, and therefore were murdered together as Jews, may their souls all have an aliyah with Hashem.

Breslev and Chabad are both doing a phenomenal job of reaching out to ALL Jews in the world today. They are amongst the most successful at this, which is unfortunately why they both get attacked so much. In spite of all the attacks, both Breslev and Chabad keep growing and growing in almost miraculous ways! B"H

Let's love each other as Jews, and drop all the labels. In the end, we are all simply Jews. B"H And in the zechut of Rabbi Brody, let's keep 'Lazer Beams' happy and positive for all Jews. :)

Kol tuv.

Respectfully,
david
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Isaac Luria was a Vatican plant?
« Reply #62 on: May 16, 2012, 08:15:34 PM »
Muman back to the question  of Mezuzot here is a great article I just read.
 Mezuza

 

Moshe Ben-Chaim   


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

There are many Jews who believe that the mezuza has some “power” of protection. Ask these people if you can light a match to a mezuza and it should not burn, and they will respond, “of course it burns.” Our obvious response, “If a mezuza cannot protect itself, how can it protect anything outside itself?”

 

Foolish people who look to the mezuza for physical protection have already been admonished by Maimonides, (Hilchos Mezuza, 5:4). There, he calls such people fools for seeking protection. He states that they take a command, which is in fact for the lofty purpose of guiding us towards profound ideas on the Unity of God, His love and His service, and they make it into an amulet of benefit. Maimonides states they have no share in the next world.

 

These unfortunate individuals make the same error as those who wear red bendels. Just as the Tosefta in Talmud Sabbath (Chap. 7) says red strings on fingers are prohibited, so too those who mock God’s command of mezuza. I would like to quote the Shulchan Aruch, in the Gilyon M’harsha, Yoreh Daah, 289, page 113 on the bottom, “if one affixes the mezuza for the reason of fulfilling the command, one may consider that as reward for doing so he will be watched by G-d. But, if one affixes the mezuza solely for protective reasons, it in fact has no guidance, and the mezuza will be as knives in his eyes”. These are very strong words from this very well known Rabbi. But what is his lesson? He is teaching us that God is the only source of protection, and that physical objects have no power. Rather, if one feels they do, these objects, even a mezuza, will be the opposite, “knives in his eyes” - something destructive. We say every day, “He (God) alone is the master of wonders”. Do we not listen to ourselves as we pray?

 

It is of the utmost importance that above all, we have the correct notion of God. He alone is the only source of power in the universe. Magic, enchanters, psychics, voodoo, etc., are all hoaxes. Even the Egyptian astrologers of old were correctly explained as having used slight of hand. (Saadia Gaon in “Emunos v’Daos”) There is no such thing as witchcraft. God’s distinction is exclusive. To assume other powers in the universe means to assume a diminution in God.

 

I would add one important observation: The notion that mezuzas have powers is actually the opposite of its real purpose. Mezuza, tefillin and tzitzis serve to take man’s investment of security in physical objects, and redirect it towards God. Man invests strength in his limbs, ego in his clothing, and security in his home. God commands us to realize our error, and redirect our security towards Him alone, as this is the truth, and our thoughts are false. We are to remind ourselves of God as we enter our homes and see the mezuza. We reflect on our frail bodies as we don tefillin. And we loosen the grip of the ego as we incorporate tzitzis into our wardrobe. Maimonides groups mezuza, tefillin and tzitzis under one heading, and I believe it is for this reason. Similarly, leprosy strikes one’s home, then his clothing, and finally one’s body - the same three objects. The purpose? To teach a sinful individual that he is a victim of evil speech. But God teaches man in a merciful fashion: first, through objects of his identification before attacking his body. Identification is closely related to security.

 

If we understand the mitzvos by in depth study as God desires, we will protect ourselves from all foolish notions, which unfortunately circulate with appeal among our brethren. As long as one abandons Torah study and simply “follows the leader”, Jews will remain victims of nonsensical notions and forfeit their “World to Come.” Only he or she who uses their mind will learn what is real, and will abandon that which is false, and which the Rabbis collectively admonished us to repel.

http://www.mesora.org/discussions/
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline muman613

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Re: Isaac Luria was a Vatican plant?
« Reply #63 on: May 16, 2012, 08:20:04 PM »
Tag,

It is obvious from all the sources which I posted that the protection provided by a Mezuzah comes from Hashem. Nobody ever suggested that the Mezuzah is some magical item. But the position still stands that one who affixes a mezuzah, to fulfill the commandment as Hashem commanded, will be offered some protection from Shemayim.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Isaac Luria was a Vatican plant?
« Reply #64 on: May 17, 2012, 08:01:56 AM »
The same thing could be said about Satmar rabbis which I also don't have much use for.  If you're doing something that's leading people astray, that's nothing to be respected for.

So does it make sense to make up conspiracy theories like that the Satmar rebbi was working for the Pope or he secretly murdered the rebbe of such and such etc  chas veshalom    Oh yeah, and then got murdered himself because the vatican conspiracies always defame a person and then say they "lost their usefulness" and that's why they didn't live long.   

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Isaac Luria was a Vatican plant?
« Reply #65 on: May 17, 2012, 08:03:04 AM »
The same thing could be said about Satmar rabbis which I also don't have much use for.  If you're doing something that's leading people astray, that's nothing to be respected for.


So does it make sense to make up conspiracy theories like that the Satmar rebbi was working for the Pope or he secretly murdered the rebbe of such and such etc  chas veshalom    Oh yeah, and then got murdered himself because the vatican conspiracies always defame a person and then say they "lost their usefulness" and that's why they didn't live long.   

Having no use for someone's views is perfectly fine.   Making up insane tales that defame the person and wrongfully accuse them is NOT FINE.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Isaac Luria was a Vatican plant?
« Reply #66 on: May 17, 2012, 08:04:14 AM »
You must beware of sharing the error of those who write amulets (kameot). Whatever you hear from them, or read in their works, especially in reference to the names which they form by combination, is utterly senseless; they call these combinations shemot (names) and believe that their pronunciation demands sanctification and purification, and that by using them they are enabled to work miracles. Rational persons ought not to listen to such men, nor in any way believe their assertions.

--Rambam, Guide for the Perplexed, Part 1, chapter 61.

Source: http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/gfp/gfp071.htm

I don't disagree with one word of this.

And at the same time, I don't slander and make up stories about people who think differently about amulets.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Isaac Luria was a Vatican plant?
« Reply #67 on: May 17, 2012, 08:09:29 AM »

But even Rambam allows (Hilchot Shabbat 19:14) for people to go out on Shabbat with an Amulet   that was made by an expert with a proven record of healing 3 people or made by an expert, who is known to have cured 3 people with his amulet.


That just shows he was ahead of his time by having an empirical mindset.   

Placebo effect is a real thing.   If something has PROVEN track record of healing, fine, it's a medical device.    (Even if that healing was done thru placebo effect).    The whole point of being against amulets was that it was superstition and a phony type of miracle-working.    But the rational approach to Judaism would assert that if something is proven to work in a certain way, it can be used for that thing.   Keep in mind medicine was not very advanced in those days.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Isaac Luria was a Vatican plant?
« Reply #68 on: May 17, 2012, 09:18:38 AM »
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline muman613

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Re: Isaac Luria was a Vatican plant?
« Reply #69 on: May 17, 2012, 05:49:24 PM »
I didn't make up anything and I didn't slander anyone.

What the original video you posted was is Slander...
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Online Zelhar

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Re: Isaac Luria was a Vatican plant?
« Reply #70 on: May 17, 2012, 06:17:20 PM »
It's highly unethical to raise such blemish on a person, let alone a dead person who cannot defend himself.

Online Zelhar

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Re: Isaac Luria was a Vatican plant?
« Reply #71 on: May 17, 2012, 06:44:29 PM »
I am not the censor of this forum. I just suggest you check yourself.

Also Dan, this might sound critical but I honestly want to ask you, do you believe in the principle of not speaking leshon hara or do you think this is also a custom Judaism should weed out ?

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Isaac Luria was a Vatican plant?
« Reply #72 on: May 17, 2012, 06:51:24 PM »
I can understand civil debate, but attacking one another does no good. All it does is divide us, and make us weak as a movement!
« Last Edit: May 17, 2012, 07:26:20 PM by Ephraim »
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Isaac Luria was a Vatican plant?
« Reply #73 on: May 17, 2012, 08:01:41 PM »
I am not the censor of this forum. I just suggest you check yourself.

Also Dan, this might sound critical but I honestly want to ask you, do you believe in the principle of not speaking leshon hara or do you think this is also a custom Judaism should weed out ?

 Actually this isn't Lashon Hara, its just wierd conspiracy stuff that is not true. We need to know what Lashon Hara actually is and not throw it around every time we have a disagreement with someone. Speaking out against Kefira is not Lashon Hara.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline muman613

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Re: Isaac Luria was a Vatican plant?
« Reply #74 on: May 17, 2012, 08:34:37 PM »
Actually this isn't Lashon Hara, its just wierd conspiracy stuff that is not true. We need to know what Lashon Hara actually is and not throw it around every time we have a disagreement with someone. Speaking out against Kefira is not Lashon Hara.

I have posted several times on the Forum the Laws of Lashon Hara as enumerated at Torah.org...

I may just repost them so we can see what Lashon Hara is. Basically it is speaking something 'which is true' about a fellow Jew which causes embarrassment or degradation to that Jew. Motzei Shem Ra is speaking falsehoods about a fellow Jew.

So basically these claims are Motzei Shem Ra and not even Lashon Hara...

Here is the INTRO to this topic at Torah.org:

Quote
http://torah.org/learning/halashon/chapter1.html

1. Definition of Lashon Hara: Negative Comments, Whether True or False

It is forbidden to speak disparagingly of one's "chaveir" (lit. friend--we will discuss who this technically includes later). Even if the information is entirely truthful, it is called Lashon Hara. If the information also contains any fabrication, it is also called motzi shem ra (lit. putting out a bad name). The speaker of Lashon Hara violates the prohibition of "Lo telech rachil b'ameicha (Lev. 19:16)."


2. Biblical Source for the Prohibition Against Lashon Hara

Leviticus 19:16 explicitly prohibits Lashon Hara and Rechilut (talebearing that incites hatred and resentment), yet there are many more commandments that bear on the speaking of Lashon Hara, as discussed in the introduction.


3. Habitual Speakers of Lashon Hara

The above (the seriousness of speaking Lashon Hara) relates to someone who incidentally includes something inappropriate in his speech. But those who make it a habit to talk about others in a derogatory manner ("Did you hear.....", "Do you know she.....", etc.) are labeled ba'alei lashon hara (lit. masters of Lashon Hara, in that such speech is an integral part of themselves), and their transgression is far more severe. They regularly create a chilul Hashem (desecration of the name of G-d; cf. Lev. 22:32) because of their rebellious manner. Though they may view their activities as social tools, such behavior cuts them off from many good things in the world around them.


4. Profound Consequences of Speaking Lashon Hara

Ba'alei Lashon Hara are also cut off from something else: olam habah (the World to Come). The Sages say (Bab. Erchin 15b) that for three transgressions one forfeits his portion in olam habah: murder, adultery, and idol worship, and that lashon hara is equivalent to all three. The Chafetz Chaim adds that when someone accustoms himself to speaking Lashon Hara, he rationalizes it to the extent that he begins to view Lashon Hara as entirely permissible.

The comparison of Lashon Hara to well-known and agreed-upon sins such as murder is surprising. But at the same time, we can imagine why: just as the "Ten Commandments" sins damage and destroy vital physical aspects of the world, Lashon Hara afflicts the emotional and social realms.


5. Being "Coerced" into Speaking Lashon Hara

There is no difference when speaking lashon hara whether one tells a juicy story of his own will or because someone encourages (or pressures) him to do so. Even if the speaker's Rebbe (teacher) or parent--whom the person must honor and fear, and not contradict--requests that he tell about an incident, if the relating of the information would result in Lashon Hara or even Avak Lashon Hara (speech that provokes Lashon Hara; more about that later), he cannot say it.

If you think about it, Lashon Hara isn't any different from any other commandment. If someone encouraged you, or even nagged you, to eat a cheeseburger, you would still be fully responsible for your actions. Certainly social pressure for gossip seems more effective than it is for food, drink and many other areas, but that may be because we are not used to saying "no" to evil speech.


6. Speaking Lashon Hara to Avoid Financial Loss

Even when subject to great financial loss, one is not permitted to speak Lashon Hara. This may mean that he will be viewed as a fool, and denied financial opportunity by the "intelligent" people with whom he associates. As in all Mitzvot Lo Taaseh (Torah prohibitions), we are commanded to forgo all of our income.

(The source for this is in Shema: b'kol l'vavcha, b'kol nafsh'cha, ub'kol m'odecha: "You shall love the L-rd your G-d with all of your heart, all of your soul, and all of your possessions.")

It is generally helpful to try and develop a (personal) rational approach to the laws of Lashon Hara. When someone is confronted with a situation in which he is expected to speak derogatorily about someone, if he can respond with a simple personal philosophy (or sometimes just enough self-confidence to convey adherence to a personal philosophy), he will leave most of those situations with others' respect intact. And in those situations which are not in the "most" category, the best thing to do is remember the benefits that accrue through hardship in observing this mitzvah.


7. Speaking Lashon Hara to Avoid Personal Dishonor

If someone stands to lose personal honor by not speaking Lashon Hara, he must also sustain the loss and remain silent. For example, if one is sitting in a group speaking Lashon Hara, and he has no way to separate from them at the moment, he cannot participate in their lively discussion. This applies even if he will look like a simpleton or social clod. He should try to hold himself back and remember the many sayings of the Sages regarding his situation: "Better to be considered a fool in the eyes of man throughout one's lifetime than as a wicked person in the eyes of G-d for one moment (Eduyot 5:6)," "the reward is according to the effort (Pirkei Avot/Ethics of the Fathers 5:25)," "one hundred times more in hardship than without it (i.e. the reward is one hundred fold; Avot d'Rabbi Natan)," and the Vilna Gaon who writes that "for every second that one remains silent he will merit reward beyond the comprehension of any being, even celestial."


8. Various Methods of Conveying Lashon Hara

Whether spoken, written, or hinted with gestures or any other way (if you looked at the Rashi in Lev. 19:16 you saw that winking was described as a characteristic behavior of holchei rachil - those who go about slandering), any communication of Lashon Hara is prohibited. This also applies if you weren't the writer of a piece disparaging someone. [Rabbi Pliskin elaborates on a footnote in the Hebrew about the communication of Lashon Hara: showing a letter or other writing (e.g. a newspaper) to belittle its writer would also be forbidden. I would anticipate that this would also apply to footage in a film or other media.]


9. Disparaging Yourself Along with Others

Even if you're disparaging yourself alongside the subject, it is prohibited. It doesn't matter if you look even worse than the subject, and it doesn't matter if you mention yourself first. Rabbi Pliskin gives some nice examples:

Ben and I both shoplifted when we were younger.
Nobody in our group studies Torah properly.
It is also forbidden to speak Lashon Hara about yourself.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14