Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
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Tag-MehirTzedek:
I think we are getting carried away with this whole "Kabbalah" and Arizal etc. thing. In my opinion their are problems with both extremes and the way things are shown and seen and what is believed. Their are those who took these teachings the wrong way (and not that their isn't a Mahloket to begin with) on the other hand some "rationalists" are also taking things wrongly (imo).
Perhaps some of these teachings are very great teachings. BUT they can be dangerous when understood and teken the wrong way. In the Ben Ish Chai it is brought down that the Ari (I dont remember the details) instructed his students to bury his teachings after his passing because it can be taken the wrong way. Even the Kabbalists like the Arizal etc. said that their are conditions for studying "Kabbalah". And if you look into them they are many and usually hard to fulfill even before starting. I think the point is to be firmly grounded in reality. The problem is when some (or many) just skipp everything and jump into what they call and believe is "Kabbalah" and the "secrets" and that is where problems including potentially idolatry and heresy comes in.And also being the problems with some groups etc. today.
muman613:
--- Quote from: Tag-MehirTzedek on May 17, 2012, 09:12:52 PM ---I think we are getting carried away with this whole "Kabbalah" and Arizal etc. thing. In my opinion their are problems with both extremes and the way things are shown and seen and what is believed. Their are those who took these teachings the wrong way (and not that their isn't a Mahloket to begin with) on the other hand some "rationalists" are also taking things wrongly (imo).
Perhaps some of these teachings are very great teachings. BUT they can be dangerous when understood and teken the wrong way. In the Ben Ish Chai it is brought down that the Ari (I dont remember the details) instructed his students to bury his teachings after his passing because it can be taken the wrong way. Even the Kabbalists like the Arizal etc. said that their are conditions for studying "Kabbalah". And if you look into them they are many and usually hard to fulfill even before starting. I think the point is to be firmly grounded in reality. The problem is when some (or many) just skipp everything and jump into what they call and believe is "Kabbalah" and the "secrets" and that is where problems including potentially idolatry and heresy comes in.And also being the problems with some groups etc. today.
--- End quote ---
This I agree with. I don't think Kabbalah is that important for the average Jewish person. It is completely unnecessary for the service of Hashem. But those minds who seek more than just the Tanakh and want to feel like they understand more of Hashems working within the world can learn secrets of Torah from the Kabbalah.
Again I stand against teaching what some schools call Kabbalah to the uneducated Jewish masses as the 'Kabbalah Center' does. What they teach is not Judaism...
JTFenthusiast2:
--- Quote from: Dan Ben Noah on May 11, 2012, 10:29:52 AM ---I don't go to them for spiritual guidance. What's going on here is if I find one true video or interesting thing they have to say that is not currently accepted by the majority of Jews, you try to dig up something that they said that doesn't go along with JTF ideology, rendering anything they have to say worthless. I don't agree with everything this woman says, or everything that Rabbi Asher Meza says. Putting up one video of theirs is not meant to endorse them as spiritual guides. But they are right about certain things, such as Lurianic Kabbalah. Rabbis have written against Lurianic Kabbala. I don't know if Luria was exactly a Vatican plant, but it is an interesting theory, and it's nice to see there are Orthodox Jews out there fighting against mysticism.
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"Rabbi Asher Meza??????" Please tell me you are joking.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Tag-MehirTzedek on May 17, 2012, 09:02:56 PM ---
I remember the first part, but the rest seems new to me (don't remember reading it here or at all).
--- End quote ---
That's what the video says. So I'm asking, theoretically, if someone says "that wouldn't surprise me" about that, is it a form of lashon hara? Or motzi shem ra? Or something?
Zelhar:
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on May 18, 2012, 08:12:36 AM ---That's what the video says. So I'm asking, theoretically, if someone says "that wouldn't surprise me" about that, is it a form of lashon hara? Or motzi shem ra? Or something?
--- End quote ---
From the little check I have made indeed lashon hara in the halachic context is telling something that is true that is bad or can damage that person. Motzi shem ra is someone who tells lies about another person.
So, the issue here is what if a person is spreading rumors or theories that are unfounded but he believes they are likely or possible. I don't know halacha enough but it makes sense to me to avoid spreading such stories and if one just can't hold it in then at least he should say very clearly that it is pure speculation lacking evidence.
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