Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Shalom
muman613:
I believe Rambam was one who believed in Spontaneous Generation...
http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/766411/Rabbi_Hershel_Schachter/When_Science_Contradicts_The_Talmud
http://www.kashrut.com/articles/WormsInFish/
--- Quote ---Coming From the Flesh – Spontaneous Generation46
For years, scientists believed in spontaneous generation, which means that a female and male are not needed to reproduce, and creatures can grow from dirt and rot.47 Louis Pasteur finally disproved this theory in the late nineteenth century. The simple reading of the Gemarah that worms grow in the flesh of the fish would seem to indicate that Chazal held of spontaneous generation.48
However, there is an alternative way to explain the Gemarah.
We find a similar issue concerning lice.
The halacha is that lice may be killed on Shabbos,49 since they are not created from the mating of a male and female.50 Many explain that lice are spontaneously generated. This was the accepted theory for many years.
However, many explain the Gemarah that the reason why lice may be killed is they are so small and unrecognizable (unless they are on a shaft of black hair). Therefore, they are considered as nothing (see below), and viewed as a product of dirt. However, there is no proof from here that there is such as notion as spontaneous generation.51
--- End quote ---
Tag-MehirTzedek:
--- Quote from: muman613 on June 05, 2012, 07:28:47 PM ---I believe Rambam was one who believed in Spontaneous Generation...
--- End quote ---
Not only the Rambam but "For years, scientists believed in spontaneous generation,"
Soo Rambam used the information and scientific and in general knowledge of his day to make his decision on this matter (I presume permitting killing lice of Shabbat), we who know better should not do soo and use the opinion of R' Elizer who forbade such action on Shabbat.
Tag-MehirTzedek:
--- Quote from: Dan Ben Noah on June 05, 2012, 06:32:37 PM ---That doesn't sound like a very convincing reason for those who do recline on Pesach to stop doing so. It seems to me to still be an agreeable tradition used to commemorate Pesach.
--- End quote ---
The shiur from what I remember was primarily addressed to those who think they are doing Haseba (the vast majority actually, except for a few Teimanim who actually do it), most in actuality are not. Then also addressing actually the correct way, of why we would not be obligated to do that as well. To move all our chairs and furniture and sit on the floor and do this. I don't remember exactly, but I don't remember the Rav specifically saying it is absolutly wrong. Just that it is absolutly not necessary and not the way of noble people today to eat this way. I don't understand why you and the writer of that site was soo offended by what the Rav said. This was actually said by a number of Torah leaders already in the past generations especially in Europe where people did not eat this way.
Tag-MehirTzedek:
--- Quote from: Dan Ben Noah on June 05, 2012, 09:24:10 PM ---The chayas site was saying that this practice of reclining is not wrong, I would agree with that.
Also, regarding the killing of a louse on the Sabbath, here is what Rambam says:
A person who kills insects and worms that are conceived through male-female relations or fleas that come into being from the dust is liable as if he killed an animal or a beast. In contrast, a person is not liable for killing insects and worms that come into being from dung, rotten fruit, or the like - e.g., the worms found in meat or those found in legumes.
A person who checks his clothes for lice on the Sabbath may rub off the lice and discard them. It is is permitted to kill lice on the Sabbath, for they come into being from sweat.
Now the way I would interpret this is that since nothing comes into being from dung, rotten fruit, etc., then it is forbidden to kill anything (unless it is a dangerous animal with direct threat to one's life as is later discussed). Now if lice DID come from spontaneous generation, then it would be ok, but since they don't then they fall into the category of any other insect. You don't need a whole new psak halacha for a person to do this. I wouldn't compare this to hasiba which is a cultural issue.
Also, does Rabbi Bar Hayim actually have his own code that he has put together or does he just issue rulings on a limited number of issues?
--- End quote ---
It was addressing a shiur that the Rav made about Haseba and recling on Pessah. Its a whole shiur, they took a small part of the shiur and took it personally. What was explicitly stated as wrong was/is the practice of leaning to the right side thinking one is doing Hasebba which in actually one is not. And about actually doing Haseba the outcome was that one needs not do it.
- Lice. Yes. Its needed to explicilty say that its forbidden to do soo on Shabbat since their are some (and more then a handful I heard) who say you are allowed. And i'm almost sure some Rambamists and/or anyone who just reads and only relys on what is written in one work etc. would and can say soo as well. For example they wouldcopy/paste the Rambam and say ". It is is permitted to kill lice on the Sabbath" .
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Dan Ben Noah on June 05, 2012, 02:08:14 PM ---I respect the rationalism of Rabbi Bar Hayim, but apparently he is only re-inventing the wheel as far as practical halacha is concerned, and has some misconceptions about Mishneh Torah adherents.
http://www.chayas.com/slander.htm
--- End quote ---
Incorrect. He studeied with them and learned by their great Rav, Rabbi Qafeh zt"l.
What the "rambamists" (and apparently you) don't understand is that being an "adherent" of any one particular scholar and following his opinion blindly on every single issue is just as mistaken whether that scholar is Rambam or it is Rav Yosef Karo. The greatest poskim of yesteryear and currently living today simply never made "devotion" or "reliance" part of the halachic decision making.
For example, consider the Chazon Ish. He considered the mishne brura as just another source, no special weight. But you will see many inferior scholars today who "rely" on mishna brura and pasken straight out of that no matter what. (And even some not very good scholars or just plain ignorant nonrabbis will say things like "we hold by mishna brura" or " we -ashkenazim - pasken according to mishna brura"). Great poskim get away from this. If you ask me personally I certainly respect Rambamists more than a shulchan aruchist, but either way, neither of them should try to hold rabbinic scholars hostage to their historical scholar of choice.
Btw you say Rav Bar Hayim is wrong about the Rambamists, but you neglect the fact that he is not the only one who knows of them or considers them in that light. There are many who have the same view in this matter.
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