Anti-Israel Asher Meza attacks Chabad

[muman613]

Yes, it is the Lubavitcher Rebbe's teaching that his chasidim are following. They didnt make it up.

He also said that a Rebbe is "the self and essence of G-d in a body". They didnt make that up either.

You are making stuff up... Who said this? And where is there proof?

I am convinced, as several others here, that you are a troll... And all trolls should be ignored.. Unless you respond with some proof and sources to back up your claims it is clear you are just trying to make divisions.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

Okay, "Jewishwarrior" I'm gonna tell you a little secret... I'm actually a Templar Knight, And if you keep talking poorly about Chabad.. I'm going to have to put a gnostic  kaballah curse on you.

 I have a pentagram waiting for you at sundown!

[Israel Chai]

Okay, "Jewishwarrior" I'm gonna tell you a little secret... I'm actually a Templar Knight, And if you keep talking poorly about Chabad.. I'm going to have to put a gnostic  kaballah curse on you.

 I have a pentagram waiting for you at sundown!

Pfffh, I knew I shouldn't have put Bob down at the hiring office, he's turning the Illuminati into a joke! Next time you step into a bank, (any one, because I own everything) I'll be waiting.

 

[jewishwarrior]

You are making stuff up... Who said this? And where is there proof?

I am convinced, as several others here, that you are a troll... And all trolls should be ignored.. Unless you respond with some proof and sources to back up your claims it is clear you are just trying to make divisions.

The Lubavitcher Rebbe also abolished Halachos in the Torah based on Rebbe-worship, or rather, Rebbe-mimicking. He said that Lubavitchers - and only Lubavitchers - do not have to sleep in a Sukkah because they feel bad that they are not on the level of their Rebbe who felt pain in the sukkah because it was so holy so he couldnt sleep there.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

Pfffh, I knew I shouldn't have put Bob down at the hiring office, he's turning the Illuminati into a joke! Next time you step into a bank, (any one, because I own everything) I'll be waiting.

 

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

The Lubavitcher Rebbe also abolished Halachos in the Torah based on Rebbe-worship, or rather, Rebbe-mimicking. He said that Lubavitchers - and only Lubavitchers - do not have to sleep in a Sukkah because they feel bad that they are not on the level of their Rebbe who felt pain in the sukkah because it was so holy so he couldnt sleep there.

[jewishwarrior]

Mr I don't know if you are a troll or why you came here (I guess you are the nth incarnation of "wonga" ...) but anyway your above statement is opposite from the truth. Chabad is not avodah zarah, and the zohar was not written by rashb"y.

i apologize to you mr. zelhar for saying you were a heretic for saying that the zohar was not written by Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai.  I didn't realize that there are legitimate opinions from gedolim such as Rabbi  Yaakov Emden and the Chasham Sofer that the Zohar was not written by him, as was brought to my attention by that guy on this thread who posted the link of Rabbi Wein explaining this.

[jewishwarrior]

The Lubavitcher Rebbe also said that Lubavitchers do not have to wash for shalosh seudos because since one of the Lubavitcher Rebbes couldnt bear to eat during such a holy time (he had the status of a choleh, I suppose) therefore, the Lubab chasidim, even though they do not have that status, should imitate their rebbe and not eat either.

[Zelhar]

i apologize to you mr. zelhar for saying you were a heretic for saying that the zohar was not written by Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai.  I didn't realize that there are legitimate opinions from gedolim such as Rabbi  Yaakov Emden and the Chasham Sofer that the Zohar was not written by him, as was brought to my attention by that guy on this thread who posted the link of Rabbi Wein explaining this.

Well, I will take the apology though I didn't request it. I think you really need to retract your slander and apologize to Chabad.

[jewishwarrior]

Well, I will take the apology though I didn't request it. I think you really need to retract your slander and apologize to Chabad.

Thank you for accepting my apology.  The problem with the above "halachic" (sic) decisions that I posted above is not that Lubavitch don't sleep in a sukkah - there are heterim for that sometimes - nor is it that they dont wash for 3rd seudah - but rather the reasoning that the Lubavitcher Rebbe gives, namely, that the need to imitate the behavior of a rebbe is sufficient reason to supercede the halachah.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

You did not apologize to Chabad! And I request you apologize to Muman!

[muman613]

You did not apologize to Chabad! And I request you apologize to Muman!

I don't 'need' an apology. It would be nice though...

[muman613]

Thank you for accepting my apology.  The problem with the above "halachic" (sic) decisions that I posted above is not that Lubavitch don't sleep in a sukkah - there are heterim for that sometimes - nor is it that they dont wash for 3rd seudah - but rather the reasoning that the Lubavitcher Rebbe gives, namely, that the need to imitate the behavior of a rebbe is sufficient reason to supercede the halachah.

http://www.chabad.org/holidays/JewishNewYear/template_cdo/aid/749894/jewish/Do-I-have-to-sleep-in-the-sukkah.htm

Do I have to sleep in the sukkah?

By Menachem Posner

The Talmud tells us that during sukkot a man is obligated to sleep in the sukkah.1 This is quoted as binding in the latter Halachic works as well.2

However, it appears that that at least since the 13th century the common practice is to sleep indoors. There are a number of different suggestions why this is so. All of them are based on the fact that the obligation to dwell in the sukkah does not apply if it makes a person at all uncomfortable.3

The thirteenth-century sage, Rabbi Mordechai ben Hillel Ashkenazi, writes that most people of his time did not sleep in the sukkah and suggests that this is because the cold weather made it uncomfortable—and therefore unnecessary.4

Rabbeinu Manoach ben Yaakov (13th-14th centuries) adds the additional concern that sleeping in the sukkah puts the person and his belongings in danger of being robbed.5

Rabbi Mordechai Jaffe (1530-1612) writes that even if a person would be able to keep warm in the sukkah, if it is inconvenient to shlep bedding to and from the sukkah every night, he does not need to sleep in the sukkah.6

Rabbi Moshe Isserles (1520-1572) feels that the dispensation not to sleep in the sukkah has nothing to do with weather and writes that it is because the sukkah is not private enough for a man to sleep there with his wife.7

Rabbi David HaLevi Segal (c. 1586-1667) takes this one step further by writing that sleeping alone is not a very festive way to celebrate the holiday. Celebrating the holiday with one's wife is a mitzvah which trumps the obligation to sleep in the sukkah.8

Nevertheless, in modern times and particularly in warmer climates, it has become more common in some communities to make the effort to sleep in a sukkah.

Interestingly, the Chabad custom—which is quite stringent with regards to the other sukkah-related obligations—is to not sleep in the sukkah. Read The Sukkah and Sleeplessness to find out why this is so.

Please let me know if this helps.

Yours truly,

Rabbi Menachem Posner

FOOTNOTES
1.   Mishna, Sukkah 20b

2.   Code of Jewish Law 639

3.   Code of Jewish Law 640:4

4.   Mordechai Sukkah 741

5.   Rabbeinu Manoach Commentary to Rambam 3:6

6.   Levush 640:4

7.   Ramo 639:2

8.   Taz 639:9

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/92423/jewish/Sukkos.htm

The Sukkah and Sleeplessness

The Previous Lubavitcher Rebbe displayed two contrasting modes of behavior with respect to dwelling in the Sukkah were observed: He was scrupulous with regard to eating and drinking exclusively in the Sukkah, so much so that he would not even drink water outside it.1 But he slept in his house.2

It would seem that the opposite should have been the case: The obligation to sleep in a Sukkah carries a greater stringency than that of eating and drinking there. For one may eat a light repast (and surely drink water) outside the Sukkah, while even a short nap is prohibited.3

Now, it is true that difficulties resulting from time and place free a person from the obligation to sleep in the Sukkah, as we find the law4 that “where it is painful to sleep in the Sukkah because of the cold … it is not necessary to sleep in the Sukkah … for whoever is distressed by dwelling in the Sukkah is free from the obligation to dwell there.”
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I personally try to sleep in the sukkah if possible but there are times when it is too cold to do so. This is the reason there is a certain about of question as to when one should not sleep in it. The Chabad custom has become a minhag, but I know for a fact that Chabad still teaches the Halacha as it is written... You can keep the custom if you are a Chabadnik, my Chabad Rabbi doesn't force this minhag on anyone.

[jewishwarrior]

You did not apologize to Chabad! And I request you apologize to Muman!

It was the lubavitcher Rebbe who said that the Alter Rebbe (or was it the Tzemach Tzedek?) was on a higher level than the Tana Rav Yochanan ben Zakai in "pnimiyus hatorah".
But there is no question that the chasidim are only taking their rebbe's teachings to their logical conclusion. You cant blame them - they are tinokos shenishbu.
And so just as we do not recognize the Lubavitcher Rebbe as an authority when he was alive, his status does not change posthumously.

[jewishwarrior]

Surely you jest. This is not what the Rebbe taught. This is not what Chabad teaches. It is clear that the Temple needs to be built at the place where Hashem chose. I can surely show you this is what it says on Chabads website.

I think you have exaggerated and misunderstood something because I know what you are saying is not true.

Please provide links which support your accusations because I don't believe a single thing you say without something to back up your statements. I know I can show you what a million Chabad Rabbis say about this...

You can find it in "Kuntres b'inyan mikdash n'at zeh bais rabeinu shbabavel", 5752, p.465. If you prefer, you can also see it in "B'suras Hageulah", p.174. Here's the Lubavitcher Rebbe's statement in its entirety:
"We may say that the future Bais Hamikdash, which will be built and complete and come from heaven, will first be revealed in the place of "Bais Rabeinu Shebebavel" ... during the Golus and from there it will be moved to its place in Jerusalem.  And it is possible to say that this idea is hinted in the Rambam in the laws of Melech Hamachiach: "And he will build the Bais Hamikdash in its place[/I]". -- We may ask, why did the Rambam need to tell us that the building of the Bais Hamikdash will be "in its place"? And, why didn't the Rambam say explicitly the location of that place, [like so]: "And he will build the Bais Hamikdash in Jerusalem"? -- but "its place" alludes [not to the place of the Bais Hamikdash but rather] to the place of the King Moshiach while he is still in Golus! That is, before the time period of when he is "moshiach vadai", that is, while Moshiach is still in Golus, for there he sits, and waits and yeanrs to redeem klall yisrael and the shechinah that is in exile with them - [during this time] Moshaich builds a miniature Bais Hamikdash, which is a reflection and a model of the Bais Hamikdash in Jerusalem.  as a preparation fo rthe future Bais Hamikdash, which will be revealed first over there, and from there it will return, with G-d and the Jews, to Yerushalayim...and we can possibly say that the medrash that says "Moshiach will stand on the roof of the Bais Hamikdash and annouce to the Jews that 'The time of your redemtion has arrived!' " is referring [not to the Bais Hamikdash in Jerusalem but rather] to the roof of the Bais Hamikdash M'at in Chutz Laaretz, for after the Bais Hamikdash will be revealed and will be lowered to the ground there wont be any need to tell Klall Yisroel "Your redemtion has come." ... and we may explain, according the above, that as regards Bais Rabeinu shBeBavel in this generation - it means the house - the Bais Makneses and Bais Hamedrash - of my holy father-in-law, the Nasi of our generation. In this generation, the last generation of golus and the first generation of geulah.  through the lowest place on earth we will elevate together with it all other places in the world - this will happen through the "Bais Rabeinu" .... from which light emanates to the entire world, making the entire world into Eretz Yisroel ... where all the SHuls and Yeshivos in the entire world will be connected to the Bais Hamikdosh, in the true and complete redemption through Moshaich Tzidkeinu, the Nasi Hador, who is also the Moshiach.  the redeemer of Yisroel -of the generation - and also, and this is key, he is also the Nasi of Chasidus, through the dissemination of whose wellsprings accomplished the coming of King Moshiach ... and with this we can understand the magnitude of the loftiness of Bais Rabeinu - the priamry Mikdash M'at in this last golus which is "the place of the future bais hamikdash itself", and not only that, but there will be revealed the future Bais Hamikdash, and from there is will go to Jerusalem, as we stated.   And we may add, that this idea is suggested in the name of "The House of Rabbeinu" in our generaiton: ... for the "house" of Rabbeinu - its number is 770, and this number is the established way that the house is referred to in the mouths of all of Klall Yisroel, for they refer to Bais Rabeinu as "770", which is Gematria "foratztah", as in "uforatzta yama v'kedmah etc." ..   and according to all we have said about the loftiness of the House of our Teacher in Bavel, that it is the place of the Bais Hamikdash in the future, and that in it will be revealed the Bais Hamikdash and from there it will return to Yerushalayim -- we understand what a great merit it would be for each and every member of Klall Yisroel to give of his energy and money - and whoever gives more, is all the more so praised - as a preparation for the coming down if the revelation of the future Bais Hamikdash immediately and right away, mamesh!" This is merely a sampling of the stuff that was fed to mostly fledgling Baalei Teshuva for a half a century.
The mess that Chabad has become is NOT the fault of the Chasidim. They are only taking their rebbe's "teachings" to their logical - if you can call it that - conclusion.

[jewishwarrior]

http://www.chabad.org/holidays/JewishNewYear/template_cdo/aid/749894/jewish/Do-I-have-to-sleep-in-the-sukkah.htm

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/92423/jewish/Sukkos.htm

I personally try to sleep in the sukkah if possible but there are times when it is too cold to do so. This is the reason there is a certain about of question as to when one should not sleep in it. The Chabad custom has become a minhag, but I know for a fact that Chabad still teaches the Halacha as it is written... You can keep the custom if you are a Chabadnik, my Chabad Rabbi doesn't force this minhag on anyone.

This is the obviously absurd notion that the imaginary pain of not having pain which you should have (why?) if you are a lubavitcher chosid because you are not like your rebbe exempts you from the mitzvah.

[muman613]

You can find it in "Kuntres b'inyan mikdash n'at zeh bais rabeinu shbabavel", 5752, p.465. If you prefer, you can also see it in "B'suras Hageulah", p.174. Here's the Lubavitcher Rebbe's statement in its entirety:
"We may say that the future Bais Hamikdash, which will be built and complete and come from heaven, will first be revealed in the place of "Bais Rabeinu Shebebavel" ... during the Golus and from there it will be moved to its place in Jerusalem.  And it is possible to say that this idea is hinted in the Rambam in the laws of Melech Hamachiach: "And he will build the Bais Hamikdash in its place[/I]". -- We may ask, why did the Rambam need to tell us that the building of the Bais Hamikdash will be "in its place"? And, why didn't the Rambam say explicitly the location of that place, [like so]: "And he will build the Bais Hamikdash in Jerusalem"? -- but "its place" alludes [not to the place of the Bais Hamikdash but rather] to the place of the King Moshiach while he is still in Golus! That is, before the time period of when he is "moshiach vadai", that is, while Moshiach is still in Golus, for there he sits, and waits and yeanrs to redeem klall yisrael and the shechinah that is in exile with them - [during this time] Moshaich builds a miniature Bais Hamikdash, which is a reflection and a model of the Bais Hamikdash in Jerusalem.  as a preparation fo rthe future Bais Hamikdash, which will be revealed first over there, and from there it will return, with G-d and the Jews, to Yerushalayim...and we can possibly say that the medrash that says "Moshiach will stand on the roof of the Bais Hamikdash and annouce to the Jews that 'The time of your redemtion has arrived!' " is referring [not to the Bais Hamikdash in Jerusalem but rather] to the roof of the Bais Hamikdash M'at in Chutz Laaretz, for after the Bais Hamikdash will be revealed and will be lowered to the ground there wont be any need to tell Klall Yisroel "Your redemtion has come." ... and we may explain, according the above, that as regards Bais Rabeinu shBeBavel in this generation - it means the house - the Bais Makneses and Bais Hamedrash - of my holy father-in-law, the Nasi of our generation. In this generation, the last generation of golus and the first generation of geulah.  through the lowest place on earth we will elevate together with it all other places in the world - this will happen through the "Bais Rabeinu" .... from which light emanates to the entire world, making the entire world into Eretz Yisroel ... where all the SHuls and Yeshivos in the entire world will be connected to the Bais Hamikdosh, in the true and complete redemption through Moshaich Tzidkeinu, the Nasi Hador, who is also the Moshiach.  the redeemer of Yisroel -of the generation - and also, and this is key, he is also the Nasi of Chasidus, through the dissemination of whose wellsprings accomplished the coming of King Moshiach ... and with this we can understand the magnitude of the loftiness of Bais Rabeinu - the priamry Mikdash M'at in this last golus which is "the place of the future bais hamikdash itself", and not only that, but there will be revealed the future Bais Hamikdash, and from there is will go to Jerusalem, as we stated.   And we may add, that this idea is suggested in the name of "The House of Rabbeinu" in our generaiton: ... for the "house" of Rabbeinu - its number is 770, and this number is the established way that the house is referred to in the mouths of all of Klall Yisroel, for they refer to Bais Rabeinu as "770", which is Gematria "foratztah", as in "uforatzta yama v'kedmah etc." ..   and according to all we have said about the loftiness of the House of our Teacher in Bavel, that it is the place of the Bais Hamikdash in the future, and that in it will be revealed the Bais Hamikdash and from there it will return to Yerushalayim -- we understand what a great merit it would be for each and every member of Klall Yisroel to give of his energy and money - and whoever gives more, is all the more so praised - as a preparation for the coming down if the revelation of the future Bais Hamikdash immediately and right away, mamesh!" This is merely a sampling of the stuff that was fed to mostly fledgling Baalei Teshuva for a half a century.
The mess that Chabad has become is NOT the fault of the Chasidim. They are only taking their rebbe's "teachings" to their logical - if you can call it that - conclusion.

Regarding the debate as to whether the Third Temple will come from heaven or will be built by the people has been discussed in the Torah section before. I believe this belief comes from the Talmud. Various sages have interpreted it differently.

[jewishwarrior]

Regarding the debate as to whether the Third Temple will come from heaven or will be built by the people has been discussed in the Torah section before. I believe this belief comes from the Talmud. Various sages have interpreted it differently.

The Lubavitcher Rebbe said that the Bais Hamikdosh will be built first in 770 - because 770 is where Moshiach lives. From there, the Bais Hamikdash will fly to Yerushalayim.

He also clearly said that his father-in-law in the Nasi Hador, who is also going to be the Moshiach redeemer of Klall Yisroel, and his house - 770 is the house of Moshiach - the site of the Bais Hamikdash.  And of course, he said that Moshiach is going to be the Nasi of Chasidus of the generation as well, which is of course his father in law.
And you know - we all know -- that when he spoke about his father in law, he also meant, in our generation, himself. As he stated numerous times "His soul is in me."

[muman613]

Not that it means that 770 is the Third Temple but it is true that the Gematria of 770 is 'Beit Mashiach' or House of Moshiach...

http://www.inner.org/years/5771/secrets-of-5771-partzuf.php

Coming of Mashiach, Coming of the Mashiach

We are now finishing the year of 770, whose value is (among other things) “the house of Mashiach” (בֵּית מָשִׁיחַ ). The simplest way to add 1 to a word or phrase is to insert the letter alef (א ) in it. In this case, adding an alef to “the house of Mashiach” yields the phrase, “the coming of Mashiach” (בִּיאַת מָשִׁיחַ ). This phrase is very similar but not quite the same as the more well-known idiom “the coming of the Mashiach” (בִּיאַת הַמָּשִׁיחַ ), which equals 776.

[muman613]

The Lubavitcher Rebbe said that the Bais Hamikdosh will be built first in 770 - because 770 is where Moshiach lives. From there, the Bais Hamikdash will fly to Yerushalayim.

He also clearly said that his father-in-law in the Nasi Hador, who is also going to be the Moshiach redeemer of Klall Yisroel, and his house - 770 is the house of Moshiach - the site of the Bais Hamikdash.  And of course, he said that Moshiach is going to be the Nasi of Chasidus of the generation as well, which is of course his father in law.
And you know - we all know -- that when he spoke about his father in law, he also meant, in our generation, himself. As he stated numerous times "His soul is in me."

So... Believing this is not heresy... Do you realize that the great Rabbi Akiva actually believed that Bar Kochba was moshiach....

http://www.ohrtmimim.org/Torah_Default.asp?id=781

When Bar Kochba was killed and he had not accomplished the goal of Moshiach he was saddened, but he abandoned that belief.

All Chabad Rabbis I talk to today do not believe that Rebbe was Moshiach.


Here is what Rav Solovicheiks statement on this was:



The following is Rav Solovicheik's statement:

"The following is in response to many inquiries about my position on the Lubavitch movement vis-a-vis its Messianic beliefs.

Before the passing of the Rebbe, I included myself among those who believed that the Rebbe was worthy of being Moshiach. I strongly
believe that had we - particularly the Orthodox community - been united, we would have merited to see the complete Redemption.

Insofar as the belief held by many in Lubavitch - based in part on similar statements made by the Rebbe himself concerning his predecessor, the Previous Rebbe – including prominent Rabbonim and Roshei Yeshiva, that the Rebbe can still be Moshiach, in light of the Gemara in Sanhedrin, the Zohar, Abarbanel, Kitvei HaArizal, Sdei Chemed and other sources, it cannot be dismissed as a belief that is outside the pale of Orthodoxy.

Any cynical attempt at utilizing a legitimate disagreement of interpretation concerning this matter in order to besmirch and to damage the Lubavitch movement - that was and continues to be in the forefront of those who are battling the missionaries, assimilation and indifference - can only contribute to the regrettable discord that already plagues the Jewish community, and particularly the Torah community.

The Torah community should galvanize all of its energies to unite in the true spirit of Ahavat Yisrael, and battle the true enemies of Israel. I repudiate and call for an end to all efforts to discredit Lubavitch or any other legitimate movement within Torah Judaism."

Ahron Solovechik

[jewishwarrior]

All Chabad Rabbis I talk to today do not believe that Rebbe was Moshiach.

this is a lie.  Rabbi Berel Wein said that ALL lubavitchers believe their dead rebbe is the Messiah.

[jewishwarrior]

So... Believing this is not heresy... Do you realize that the great Rabbi Akiva actually believed that Bar Kochba was moshiach....

http://www.ohrtmimim.org/Torah_Default.asp?id=781

When Bar Kochba was killed and he had not accomplished the goal of Moshiach he was saddened, but he abandoned that belief.

All Chabad Rabbis I talk to today do not believe that Rebbe was Moshiach.


Here is what Rav Solovicheiks statement on this was:



The following is Rav Solovicheik's statement:

"The following is in response to many inquiries about my position on the Lubavitch movement vis-a-vis its Messianic beliefs.

Before the passing of the Rebbe, I included myself among those who believed that the Rebbe was worthy of being Moshiach. I strongly
believe that had we - particularly the Orthodox community - been united, we would have merited to see the complete Redemption.

Insofar as the belief held by many in Lubavitch - based in part on similar statements made by the Rebbe himself concerning his predecessor, the Previous Rebbe – including prominent Rabbonim and Roshei Yeshiva, that the Rebbe can still be Moshiach, in light of the Gemara in Sanhedrin, the Zohar, Abarbanel, Kitvei HaArizal, Sdei Chemed and other sources, it cannot be dismissed as a belief that is outside the pale of Orthodoxy.

Any cynical attempt at utilizing a legitimate disagreement of interpretation concerning this matter in order to besmirch and to damage the Lubavitch movement - that was and continues to be in the forefront of those who are battling the missionaries, assimilation and indifference - can only contribute to the regrettable discord that already plagues the Jewish community, and particularly the Torah community.

The Torah community should galvanize all of its energies to unite in the true spirit of Ahavat Yisrael, and battle the true enemies of Israel. I repudiate and call for an end to all efforts to discredit Lubavitch or any other legitimate movement within Torah Judaism."

Ahron Solovechik

The Moshiach beliefs in Lubavitch began with the Lubavithcer Rebbe's first Drasha that he gave at the beginning of his career, which they call in Chabad "Basi L'gani achosi kalah." There he says quite clearly that in our generation Moshiach will come for sure, since our generation is the seventh in the Lubavitcher dynasty, and it is clear that that is the generation that the final geulah will come.

"And this is our generation - the seventh generation since the Admor Hazakan, has been chosen through Divine Providence to complete the bringing down of the shechinah to the world in an established and permanent way via the Final Redemption."

How he decided this is a long story, and it doesnt really matter much. Suffice it to say that this has been the Chabad shita for the past 50 years.

He also mentioned, not surprisingly, that Moshe Rabbeinu's prominence is that he was the "seventh". And we all know that the Moshiach of the generation is the Moshe of the generation, and that Moshe - the seventh - will be the final redeemer of Klall Yisroel.

Of course, he said this at the commencement of his own stepping up to be the seventh Rebbe since the Alter Rebbe.

Do the math.

When the Brisker Rav ZTL saw this speech, he commented "this lunatic is convincing himself that he is moshiach!"

[muman613]

As I said, the fact that people believed he was Moshiach is not a problem, as Rabbi Akiva too believed in a Moshiach who did not materialize. All Chabad Rabbis I talk to agree that Rebbe was not Moshiach. We await his coming every day.

As several prominent Gedolim have been supportive {and I will provide a list when my Rabbi gets back to me after Shabbat} I find this machloket very unproductive.

Chabad is an organization which does much good for the Jewish world. It is good to point out problems with Meshichism within Chabad but it does not tarnish the organization as a whole.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

this is a lie.  Rabbi Berel Wein said that ALL lubavitchers believe their dead rebbe is the Messiah.

You lie! You donkey! We won't know who the Messiah is till he comes! What does it hurt to think someone might be the Messiah, as long as your not worshiping him? If you never believe someone could be the Messiah, how will you know to follow him? This forum is for all Jews, all Christians, and Hindus ect. You are nothing but a splinter that stalls the coming of Messiah!

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

That's the way it always go's! One person believes his way is the only way, and another believes his way is the only way. So they kill each other over it! That makes Hashem happy!