Author Topic: Mohammed in the Torah.  (Read 4909 times)

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Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Mohammed in the Torah.
« on: August 05, 2012, 01:09:34 PM »
In hosea 9 ו כִּי-הִנֵּה הָלְכוּ מִשֹּׁד, מִצְרַיִם תְּקַבְּצֵם מֹף תְּקַבְּרֵם; מַחְמַד לְכַסְפָּם, קִמּוֹשׂ יִירָשֵׁם, חוֹחַ, בְּאָהֳלֵיהֶם.   6
For, lo, they are gone away from destruction, yet Egypt shall gather them up, Memphis shall bury them muhammad shall take their precious treasures of silver, nettles shall possess them, thorns shall be in their tents.

-as you see the word'' מַחְמַד''''is saying muhammad will wage war on Israel.


Read the verse after it in hisea:9-ז בָּאוּ יְמֵי הַפְּקֻדָּה, בָּאוּ יְמֵי הַשִּׁלֻּם--יֵדְעוּ, יִשְׂרָאֵל; אֱוִיל הַנָּבִיא, מְשֻׁגָּע אִישׁ הָרוּחַ--עַל רֹב עֲו‍ֹנְךָ, וְרַבָּה מַשְׂטֵמָה.   7 The days of visitation are come, the days of recompense are come, Israel shall know it. The prophet is a FOOL, the man of the spirit is CRAZY! For the multitude of thine iniquity, the enmity is great.

-the bible is here saying muhammad will wage war on israel,and that he is a crazy fool.



http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt1309.htm
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Mohammed in the Torah.
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2012, 03:52:48 PM »
Maimonides in his Letter to Yemeni jews(Iggeret Teiman),mentioned it.Letter to Yemen"1:4.Let Ye understand, my brothers, the Holy One Blessed HE through the trap created by our iniquities cast us amongst this nation, the people of Ishmael [Muslim Arabs] whose oppressiveness is firmly upon us and they connive to do us wrong and despicably downgrade us as the Almighty decreed against us (Deuteronomy 32:31, "Your enemies shall judge you"). There never came against Israel a more antagonistic nation.
 
 They oppress us with the most oppressive measures to lessen our number, reduce us, and make us as despicable as they themselves are.King David, may he rest in peace, saw through Divine Inspiration all the calamities that were destined to come upon Israel. Nevertheless [even though he saw all the other troubles], he still began to shout out and lament in the name of the whole nation against the oppression that would be occasioned by the Ishmaelites.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline muman613

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Re: Mohammed in the Torah.
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2012, 05:52:12 PM »
There is no doubt that the Torah contains hints at all of history. That Ishmael and Essau both set themselves as enemies to the Jewish people is a part of Hashems divine plan. Each will play his part in this plan in order to make the Jewish nation wake up and realize our mission to bring Hashem consciousness into this world.

Ishmael himself was called a 'wild donkey' of a man, who would always be a thorn in the side of Yitzak and his descendants. Ishmael is also a part of Amalek and thus the extreme Jew hatred which comes from the arabs and the european nazi's makes absolute sense. These people exhibit the traits of their forefathers, who were wicked men.

Is it not in the ten commandments concerning how Hashem deals with nations?

2 ... You shall not bow down to them, nor serve them, for I the L‑rd your G‑d am a jealous G‑d, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate Me, and showing mercy to the thousandth generation of those who love Me and keep my commandments.

What Ishmael believes in islam is that his bloody thirst for violence is an avodah (service) of Allah. Islam provides Ishmael with a 'Holy' expression of his blood lust. Killing in the name of G-d is the ultimate sacrifice for these Ishmaelites. The Koran glorifies the violence in order to intimidate and suppress the traits which G-d truly imbued humanity with which make life beautiful. Judaism is the stark opposite which sees value in each and every human life, and exceptional worth in every Jewish life. We have no desire to force Judaism on the nations, as it will be evident that service of Hashem through lovingly accepting his commandments is the preferred service of G-d.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Mohammed in the Torah.
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2012, 10:39:20 PM »
I'm pretty sure that in the letter to Yemen, Rambam writes that there is absolutely no reference to muhammad in the Bible.  (Nor yashke for that matter)

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Mohammed in the Torah.
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2012, 10:46:18 PM »
I'm pretty sure that in the letter to Yemen, Rambam writes that there is absolutely no reference to muhammad in the Bible.  (Nor yashke for that matter)

 ( I don't know for sure and I need to see this) but I think he meant in their claims to be either prophet or Messiah etc.  In those cases of course they have no validity according to the Rambam or the sages, but I do see Mooslims trying to make claims that Mo is in the Torah, and I see and say yes he is but not when talking about as a true "prophet", but as a navi sheker and a fool. Just read the first post and both the Hebrew and English translation. It is talking about a false prophet, a fool who will plunder Israel. And it says his name- Mohammed. מַחְמַד ( I know you can read Hebrew). Soo why not take it as it is and see it referring to Mohammed. What isn't clear about that?
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Mohammed in the Torah.
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2012, 10:58:15 PM »
Muslims try to bring something else as if it is a reference to mohammed- this is what they bring.



But is is incorrect completly.
 The chapter is talking about drinking wine - " I have drunk my wine with my milk. Eat, O friends; drink, yea, drink abundantly, O beloved." Soo either 1 of 2 things, 1) its not talking about Mohammed (And the word in Mohamadim which isn't a person by the name of mohammed) OR it is talking about drinking wine and that means that Mohammed drank wine and thus broke his own rules of no alcoholic beverages for all muslims.

 The word is  מַחֲמַדִּים which they cut and paste to make "mohammed"
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline The One and Only Mo

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Re: Mohammed in the Torah.
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2012, 11:24:11 PM »
Cool thread, guys.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Mohammed in the Torah.
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2012, 11:29:02 PM »
Muslims try to bring something else as if it is a reference to mohammed- this is what they bring.



But is is incorrect completly.
 The chapter is talking about drinking wine - " I have drunk my wine with my milk. Eat, O friends; drink, yea, drink abundantly, O beloved." Soo either 1 of 2 things, 1) its not talking about Mohammed (And the word in Mohamadim which isn't a person by the name of mohammed) OR it is talking about drinking wine and that means that Mohammed drank wine and thus broke his own rules of no alcoholic beverages for all muslims.

 The word is  מַחֲמַדִּים which they cut and paste to make "mohammed"

lol
but Machmadim is not the same word as muhammad.  It doesn't even sound similar.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Mohammed in the Torah.
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2012, 09:57:08 AM »
lol
but Machmadim is not the same word as muhammad.  It doesn't even sound similar.

 Yepp. But they try to "prove" and make the connection. We need to beat them at their own propaganda war. Tell them you believe in Jewish scripture, fine. Very good, but now lets see when "Mohammed" is mentioned and in what context and what its describing about him. (As crazy false prophet).
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Khan Krum

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Re: Mohammed in the Torah.
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2012, 12:55:50 PM »
I don't get it? The incestuous illeterate desert-dweller was mention in the Torah? Where?

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Mohammed in the Torah.
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2012, 01:21:08 PM »
I don't get it? The incestuous illeterate desert-dweller was mention in the Torah? Where?

 Read the first post.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Khan Krum

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Re: Mohammed in the Torah.
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2012, 07:22:57 PM »
Read the first post.
Oh, alright. Waging war on Israel, thus waging war on God. Yes, that seems like a perfect description of satan- at war with Israel and God.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Mohammed in the Torah.
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2012, 04:53:45 PM »

Mohammed the False Prophet - Islam the False Religion
Rivka Olenick
 
 
"A prophet will the Lord, thy God raise unto thee, a prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren." Deuteronomy 18:15
 
The false prophet, the navi sheker, the "madman" Mohammed, as the Rambam calls him, convinced his followers of Islam that there are several verses in our scriptures that allude to his being a prophet. The Rambam states: "These arguments have been rehearsed so often that they have become nauseating. It is not enough to declare that they are altogether feeble; to cite as proofs these verses is ridiculous and absurd in the extreme. Neither the untutored multitude nor the apostates themselves who delude others with them believe in them or entertain any illusion about them. Their purpose in citing these verses is to win favor in the eyes of the Gentiles by demonstrating that they believe the statement of the Koran that Mohammed was mentioned in the Torah. The Muslims themselves put no faith in their arguments, they neither accept nor cite them, because they are manifestly so falicious."
 
Mohammed claimed that Deuteronomy 18:15 specifically refers to him. He said that it was he who God arose as "a prophet from the midst of thee." Of course, he himself nor anyone else ever found one word in the scriptures that proved that Mohammed arose as a prophet. Yet, he and his blind followers accuse us of manipulating the text of the Torah. They ignorantly claim that we purposely removed every trace of the name of Mohammed from it. However it was they that would not accept the main precepts of the Torah, out of defiance to the Revelation at Sinai. So in great desperation they created a book that horrendously warps and taints our scriptures and undermines Moses as the greatest Prophet. After all this they attempted to legitimize the Koran as a book of truth.
 
Isn't it amazing that exactly what they accuse us of - "altering" the Torah text - is exactly what they altered when they made up this "imitation" and called it the Koran. What they believe is so obviously false, yet the world is convinced that this is a book of truth only because of the vast numbers who read it, and not because it contains any real truth. The Rambam says: "Therefore, all the nations instigated by envy and impiety rose up against us, and all the kings of the earth motivated by injustice and enmity applied themselves to persecute us." There arose a new sect, which combined the two methods of conquest and controversy, into one, because it believed that this procedure would be more effective in wiping out every trace of the Jewish nation and religion. They claimed to prophecy and found a new faith, Islam, contrary to the Divine religion and to contend that it was equally God given. Thereby it hoped to raise doubts and create confusion, since one is opposed to the other and both supposedly emanate from a Divine source, which would lead to the destruction of both religions. For such a remarkable plan contrived by a man who is envious and querulous. He will strive to kill his enemy and to save his own life, but when he finds it impossible to attain his objective, he will devise a scheme whereby they both will be slain." He slays them both because he really knows that he cannot destroy God, but he cannot tolerate God's Divine word and so out of his own insanity he kills those who represent God and kills himself believing he will enter paradise.
 
The Torah states that the prophet that will arrive "from the midst of thee" is a person that will keep the Torah in tact as it was given to us by Moses from God. The Ninth Principle of our Thirteen Principles of Faith states: "I believe with perfect faith that the Torah will not be changed, and that there will never be another Torah given by God." As it says: "Thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it." Deuteronomy 13:1.
 
"A prophet will the Lord thy God raise unto thee, from the midst of thee, of thy brethren." Islam took this sentence completely out of context and made inferences. All the statements before and after must be understood so that the meaning and purpose of the statements is known. The sentence quoted above was taken from a paragraph in Deuteronomy that specifically warns the Jewish people about the prohibitions of soothsaying, astrology, divination, sorcery, etc. The Gentiles believe they can manipulate and use these practices in order to predict and/or prevent future events. They even depend on using these methods, rather than seeking truth. Judaism adamantly opposes such practices. The Torah commands us many times that we are not allowed to use these means. All future events that the Jewish people will learn of will be predicted by a Prophet and will all come true and that we would never have to resort to astrology or any other means in order to know truths. We rely on the truths spoken by our Prophets who will not give us any new laws or any new additions to the Torah.
 
"...of thy brethren" means that the Prophet will be one of us, meaning the descendants of Jacob, not Esau or Ishmael. "But My covenant will I establish with Isaac whom Sarah will bear unto thee at this set time in the next year." "But God said: Not so, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name Isaac. With him will I keep My covenant for an everlasting covenant for his seed after him." Genesis 17: 19 and 21. "It is, my co-religionists, one of the fundamental articles of the faith of Israel, that the future redeemer of our people will spring only from the stock of Solomon son of David. He will gather our nation, assemble our exiles, redeem us from our degradation, propagate the true religion, and exterminate his opponents, as it is clearly stated in Scripture, "I see him but not now, I behold him but not high, there shall step forth a star out of Jacob, and a scepter shall arise out of Israel. And shall smite through the corners of Moab, and break down all the sons of Seth. And Edom shall be a possession, Seir also, even his enemies, shall be a possession, while Israel doeth valiantly." Numbers 24:17-18
 
"If any heretics rise up to corrupt the people, they will undermine the faith of the young folks and they will not find a savior. Beware of them and know that in our opinion, it is permitted to slay them, for they repudiate the statement in the prophecy of Moses who commanded us to act."
 
"According to the law which they shall teach thee, and according to the judgment which the shall tell thee thou shalt do." Deutoronomy 17:11.
 
"They assert in wicked defiance that they believe most firmly in the prophecy of Moses, as the Arabs and Byzantines say yet they destroy and nullify his law and kill the adherents thereof. Whoever joins them is just like his seducer." The Rambam from Letter to Yemen.

http://www.mesora.org/mohammed.html
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.