PROOF NETANYAHU IS A COMMIE: SOVIET GENOCIDE-DENIAL

[Zelhar]

Bring sources to your claim. I have never heard any holodomor denying in Israel. However lots of Ukrainian nazis try to say the Jews were behind it so to justify the Ukrainian enthusiastic participation in the Holocaust.

[Debbie Shafer]

Sorry to hear this..it seems our leaders don't stand on solid ground.  I respected Netanyahu for his strength, but maybe that was misplaced. 

[muman613]

The title of this thread is misleading. Israel recognizes, according to the wikileaks information I posted about two years ago, that there was a mass human-inflicted famine called the Holodomor. But the question is does it actually qualify to be called a genocide. I also have this question. Who was the target of the genocide supposed to be? It seems that all Russians suffered because of this.

Apparently I am not the only one who sees this as a legitimate question:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor_genocide_question

The Holodomor genocide question consists of the attempts to determine whether the Holodomor, the disastrous famine in 1933 that claimed millions of lives in Ukraine that is recognized as a crime against humanity by the European Parliament,[1] was an ethnic genocide, a natural catastrophe or democide.[2][3] Currently, there is no international consensus among scholars or politicians on whether the Soviet policies that caused the famine fall under the legal definition of genocide.[4][5] As of April 2008, the parliament of Ukraine and the governments of 8 countries have recognized the Holodomor as an act of genocide.[6][dated info]

[Khan Krum]

The title of this thread is misleading. Israel recognizes, according to the wikileaks information I posted about two years ago, that there was a mass human-inflicted famine called the Holodomor. But the question is does it actually qualify to be called a genocide. I also have this question. Who was the target of the genocide supposed to be? It seems that all Russians suffered because of this.

Apparently I am not the only one who sees this as a legitimate question:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor_genocide_question

The Ukrainians were victims of the Russians.

[muman613]

The Ukrainians were victims of the Russians.

This is the question whether it amounts to genocide according to the UN definition. There is no 'denial' that a great number of innocent people died as a result of this, but whether it can be called genocide by a certain definition.


From the wikipage:

Genocide debate: Russian government position
The Russian Federation accepts historic information about the Holodomor but rejects the argument that it was ethnic genocide by pointing out the fact that millions of non-Ukrainian Soviet citizens also died because of the famine. On 2 April 2008, a statement was voted by the Russian parliament stating there was no evidence that the 1933 famine was an act of genocide specifically against the Ukrainian people. This was in response to the 2006 Ukrainian parliament declaration that the Holodomor was an act of genocide by the Soviet authorities against the Ukrainian people. The resolution adopted by Russia's lower house of parliament, the State Duma, condemned the Soviet regime's "disregard for the lives of people in the attainment of economic and political goals", along with "any attempts to revive totalitarian regimes that disregard the rights and lives of citizens in former Soviet states." yet stated that "there is no historic evidence that the famine was organized on ethnic grounds."[18]

I now realize that there is a category called 'Crimes against Humanity' which this event may be classified as. I am still not convinced it can be called Genocide though... Read the arguments on the wiki page to understand what I am saying.

[Khan Krum]

This is the question whether it amounts to genocide according to the UN definition. There is no 'denial' that a great number of innocent people died as a result of this, but whether it can be called genocide by a certain definition.


From the wikipage:


I now realize that there is a category called 'Crimes against Humanity' which this event may be classified as. I am still not convinced it can be called Genocide though... Read the arguments on the wiki page to understand what I am saying.

If anyone could help me find a group of right-wing nationalistic Ukrainians who support Israel and see the Holodomor and Holocaust as 2 events which bring them together with Jews, I think this would help. i did have the earlier mentioned website about "reconciling Jews and Ukrainians" that saw leftist Jews as provocators while mentioning them explicitly as anti-Israel.

I did find YouTube channel "ProudUkie" who I like who makes pro-Israel, pro-Polish, and incredibly racist Russophobic posts whilst at same time being pro-Serb?!?!? He/she is also not afraid to tackle Ukrainian neo-nazis and Ukrainophobic bolsheviks at once!

Also, there is one thing that needs to be mentioned here: Polish Underground of WWII. These brave men fought the nazis and soviets at the same time, but they also fought the Ukrainian People's Army. The Ukrainian People's Army fought the nazis and soviets at the same time too. I think most Jews would feel comfortable to support the Polish Underground. Thus, east Europe was a 4-way war. Polish nationalists are also very pro-Israel. The only right-wing Polish antisemitism from that I've seen is from the Polish neo-nazis (on Youtube mainly "NajlepszyPolskiFreePress" the stupid Polish nazi fool). One of the top comments is

Żydzi to Polacy wyznania mojżeszowego , nasi starsi bracia w wierze , powinni wrócić do Polski do swojej dawnej ojczyzny.

which means according of Google Translate:

Jews are Polish Jews, our elder brothers in faith, they should return to Polish to their ancient homeland.

I think this is supposed to be saying that they should go back to Israel (ancient homeland) with error in translation. It's nationalism and want to keep Poland Polish while reject antisemitism.

What really makes me angry are Ukrainian nationalists who support "Palestinians"! Ukraine leftist government supports them, why should nationalist Ukrainians? No sense at all! Israel & Ukraine are in the same position and again I say:

Both are states which have huge minorities belonging to larger ethnic groups. There are more Russians than Ukrainians and more Arabs than Jews. But Israel and Ukraine are threatened with Arab and Russian minorities who are famously genocidal. One would think there would be many Jews in the Arab countries by just comparing the size. Same thing for Ukrainians in Russia. but not really. I saw one Ukrainian nationalist channel "theCossackmate" who support Yulia Tymoshenko and VO "Svoboda" but then I saw they liked a video about Israeli organ harvesting! They said,"Izraeli government is responsible for sure" or something like that. I doubt it was for same reason most people here don't like the Israeli gov.

Ukrainian YouTuber "zakharii" is also nationalistic and posts videos celebrate Judæo-Ukrainian culture. However he did criticize Tymoshenko because of half-Ukrainian (mother), 1/4 Jew (father's mother) and 1/4 Latvian (father's father). But he doesn't hate Jews. I just wish Ukrainian nationalists would see the similarities w/Israel. Conservative Ukrainians do like last Ukrainian president Yushchenko (actually ethnic Ukrainian unlike leftist Byelorusian pig Yanukovych) who said Holodomor helps Ukrainians relate to Jews.

I wish there was cultural program to help Ukrainians and Jews understand each other, is sad that there is that much misunderstanding. Ukrainians often think Jews reject others' suffering and only think about Holocaust. But whenever a Ukrainian say this I tell them "If I ever tell a Jewish person about the Holodomor they are shocked to find out about it and feel as though it makes them closer to the Ukrainians" from real experience. If it's most people they just say "That's horrible I never knew it happened!" but for Jews is "We feel closer to the Ukrainian people".

Also there is many YouTube videos about Holodomor where Ukrainians who aren't nazis and don't blame "Bolshevik Jews" for the actual genocide will still blame Jews for control the media and make it look like their genocide is more important.

[serbian army]

Another try of Serb enemy to alter historical facts. It was clearly stated in by the enemy that Serbs and Bulgarians are brothers and long time friends. This can't be further from the truth. The Serbs and their neighbors Bulgarians are rivals from over 1500 years ago and had never been friends in history. In WWI and WWII Bulgarians committed unspeakable atrocities when they occupied our country. On top of that, they recognized Serbia's southern province Kosovo to be independent country. This is just in past 100 years and if we goo deeper in history we are going to find out horror stories of Bulgarian actions against my nation.

Now, lets talk about Ukraine. The word Ukraine means Krajina in Serbian language (or any other Slavic language I believe). Krajina is translated as region within some country, usually region near border, populated with an ethnic majority who's sole purpose is to defend rest of the country. We can compare this to Jewish region called Palestine or Serb region Kosovo for example.
Majority of people in Ukraine are ethnic Russians who speak Russian language. There is small minority of newly created nation called Ukrainians. You get the idea? Ukrainians are nation as much as Bosnians, Palestinians, or Kosovars.

Now can someone tell me how insane you must be to state that Russians committed genocide against their fellow Russians? I fully understand that many people died due to terrible communist policies, but almost all who died considered themselves RUSSIANS.

[serbian army]

Who was the target of the genocide supposed to be? It seems that all Russians suffered because of this.

Apparently I am not the only one who sees this as a legitimate question:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor_genocide_question

You just nailed it. Thanks for knowing historical facts so well!!!

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Are you saying I am confused? I don't think so. I think that what happened was not a genocide but it was surely a cruel and inhumane thing which was done. But it was not on the level of a planned genocide of the Jewish people. Jews and non-Jews died in the famine. But the problem is that the Ukrainians and the Russians would like to blame the Jewish people for the event.

It is for this reason I find it hard to accept a tragedy which killed many Jews {I think I calculated about 120k-140k Jews died according to statistics I found} to be blamed on the Jews.

Remember the thread I posted two years ago... At the time you said you had never heard of Holodomor. We had a big discussion about it and RBM had some choice things to say... Check out that thread...

http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,51214.0.html

As a challenge to you KWRBT I dare you to google Holodomor and tell me how many antisemitic sites come up. It is the rallying call of every nazi out there that the Jewish people perpetrated a genocide against christian russians.

Or maybe you think that Netanyahu didn't want to acknowledge this event because he is covering for the commies?

Here is a link for a google search for 'Holodomor' & 'Jew'...

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=holodomor+jews&revid=2052436014&sa=X&ei=mJYHULuACMmw2QW1t7XmBA&ved=0CGAQ1QIoAjgK&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=630936b765f75efa&biw=1280&bih=645

You replied w total confusion.  Your comments obfuscate not only the history but also my position.

[muman613]

You replied w total confusion.  Your comments obfuscate not only the history but also my position.

I have no idea what you are talking about. I have posted factual information from several sources. Nothing was obfuscated.

Here are the facts:

1) A famine occurred in Ukraine and Soviet Russia

2) Millions perished in this famine.

3) Some claim that it was a planned 'genocide' of these people. Others claim it does not meet the definition of a 'genocide'.

4) The event is used quite vigorously by Jew haters who blame it on the Jewish Cabal who controlled the Soviet Communist government.


I have no idea what you think was not clear in what I said. I stand by my opinion that it did not qualify as a genocide. I admit that it may rise to a 'crime against humanity' though. I also did not obfuscate your position. Look at what you wrote two years ago about not knowing about it...

[IsraelForever]

At the start of 20th century the Anti-Jewish pogroms continued to occur in cities and towns across the Russian Empire such as Kishinev (1905), Kiev (1911), and many others. Numerous Jewish self-defense groups were organized to prevent the outbreak of pogroms among which the most notorious one was under the leadership of Mishka Yaponchik in Odessa. During the Revolution of 1917 and the ensuing Russian Civil War an estimated 70,000 to 250,000 civilian Jews were killed in the atrocities throughout the former Russian Empire in this period.
 
During the establishment of the Ukrainian People's Republic (1919–20), pogroms continued to be perpetrated on Ukrainian territory. Only in Ukraine, the number of civilian Jews killed during the period was estimated to be between 35 and 50 thousand. Archives declassified after 1991 provide evidence of a higher number; in the period from 1918 to 1921, "according to incomplete data, at least 100,000 Jews were killed in Ukraine in the pogroms."

[Khan Krum]

At the start of 20th century the Anti-Jewish pogroms continued to occur in cities and towns across the Russian Empire such as Kishinev (1905), Kiev (1911), and many others. Numerous Jewish self-defense groups were organized to prevent the outbreak of pogroms among which the most notorious one was under the leadership of Mishka Yaponchik in Odessa. During the Revolution of 1917 and the ensuing Russian Civil War an estimated 70,000 to 250,000 civilian Jews were killed in the atrocities throughout the former Russian Empire in this period.
 
During the establishment of the Ukrainian People's Republic (1919–20), pogroms continued to be perpetrated on Ukrainian territory. Only in Ukraine, the number of civilian Jews killed during the period was estimated to be between 35 and 50 thousand. Archives declassified after 1991 provide evidence of a higher number; in the period from 1918 to 1921, "according to incomplete data, at least 100,000 Jews were killed in Ukraine in the pogroms."

I know many Ukrainian nationalists who support Israel, despite these history. I want to know Ukrainian Nationalist group that supports Israel, so I can offer my support. Blok Tymoshenko is pro-Israel and Russophobic but they are conservatives not nationalists.