Chaim's Letter To Allen On Missionaries

[Allen-T]

"Newman, don't assume anything, pick up a NT and read. Jesus commanded us to do this, period. Whether you agree with Christianity or not is irrelevant to figuring that out. Ok, now let's see which genius reads this response and accuses me of proslytizing because he doesn't know how to read whole sentences."

Jesus commands you to do what ?

Proselytize ? Spread the word ? Missionize ?

And what is the intent of proselytizing ?

To convince Jews to accept Jesus, at which point they cease being Jews.

So in effect, unless you don't want the proselytizing to succeed, you're working to destroy Judaism.

Yet you can't understand why Jews resent this.

Or maybe you do, but you just don't care.

Either way, it's time you moved on.

Have a nice life.

Einstein, it's because I understand this I BROUGHT IT UP IN THE FIRST PLACE. Jews do convert, they don't all resent it. What do you think they think of you? I can just imagine Sullivan and Yacov right now, praying, "any second he's gonna say something anti-semetic and then we GOT'M!!" Keep dreaming, your dirty smear plot won't work except on the minds of the midgets   

[Zvulun Ben Moshe]

It sounds ironic to me when a person of let’s say Irish or German descent is “telling Jews about Jesus” (another Jew). Jews knew of Jesus before anyone did. They already listened to him and directly to him, and not to his telemarketers 2000 years later. Jews did not accept their fellow Jew’s preaching, and this “internal Jewish affair” should have stayed inside the house, but now we get approached by people thousands of miles away from Israel, who is trying to convince us that our fathers were wrong in rejecting another Jew named Jesus.

If anyone was in the right to preach, that would be the Jews, who gave a spring to at least two major religions.

[Muck DeFuslims]

Einstein, it's because I understand this I BROUGHT IT UP IN THE FIRST PLACE. Jews do convert, they don't all resent it. What do you think they think of you? I can just imagine Sullivan and Yacov right now, praying, "any second he's gonna say something anti-semetic and then we GOT'M!!" Keep dreaming, your dirty smear plot won't work except on the minds of the midgets


The important thing as far as you're concerned is that JTF's leadership and the overwhelming majority of Jews on this forum DO resent it.

We're proud of being Jews and will remain Jews, despite your belief (as evidenced by your contention that proselytizing Jews is exemplary, laudable Christian behavior) that we shouldn't be.
 
That's something you can't or won't accept.

That's why you're out.

[newman]

"Newman, don't assume anything, pick up a NT and read. Jesus commanded us to do this, period. Whether you agree with Christianity or not is irrelevant to figuring that out. Ok, now let's see which genius reads this response and accuses me of proslytizing because he doesn't know how to read whole sentences."

Jesus commands you to do what ?

Proselytize ? Spread the word ? Missionize ?

And what is the intent of proselytizing ?

To convince Jews to accept Jesus, at which point they cease being Jews.

So in effect, unless you don't want the proselytizing to succeed, you're working to destroy Judaism.

Yet you can't understand why Jews resent this.

Or maybe you do, but you just don't care.

Either way, it's time you moved on.

Have a nice life.

Einstein, it's because I understand this I BROUGHT IT UP IN THE FIRST PLACE. Jews do convert, they don't all resent it. What do you think they think of you? I can just imagine Sullivan and Yacov right now, praying, "any second he's gonna say something anti-semetic and then we GOT'M!!" Keep dreaming, your dirty smear plot won't work except on the minds of the midgets   

The only jews who convert are secular ones who don't know enough to refute your outrageous claims. Never in the history of mankind have christians converted a Torah-learned jew without putting a sword to his throat........and that's always on the cards with you people.

[Allen-T]

"Newman, don't assume anything, pick up a NT and read. Jesus commanded us to do this, period. Whether you agree with Christianity or not is irrelevant to figuring that out. Ok, now let's see which genius reads this response and accuses me of proslytizing because he doesn't know how to read whole sentences."

Jesus commands you to do what ?

Proselytize ? Spread the word ? Missionize ?

And what is the intent of proselytizing ?

To convince Jews to accept Jesus, at which point they cease being Jews.

So in effect, unless you don't want the proselytizing to succeed, you're working to destroy Judaism.

Yet you can't understand why Jews resent this.

Or maybe you do, but you just don't care.

Either way, it's time you moved on.

Have a nice life.

Einstein, it's because I understand this I BROUGHT IT UP IN THE FIRST PLACE. Jews do convert, they don't all resent it. What do you think they think of you? I can just imagine Sullivan and Yacov right now, praying, "any second he's gonna say something anti-semetic and then we GOT'M!!" Keep dreaming, your dirty smear plot won't work except on the minds of the midgets   

The only jews who convert are secular ones who don't know enough to refute your outrageous claims. Never in the history of mankind have christians converted a Torah-learned jew without putting a sword to his throat........and that's always on the cards with you people.

I never thought I'd say this, Imerica isn't so bad after all.

[Muck DeFuslims]

I never thought I'd say this, Imerica isn't so bad after all.

Maybe you can start the "I wish all Jews were Christians" forum and invite her to participate.

[newman]

I never thought I'd say this, Imerica isn't so bad after all.

Maybe you can start the "I wish all Jews were Christians" forum and invite her to participate.

Yeah, Muck. 'wish' being the operative word here 'coz they've got high hopes!

[Until Shiloh Comes]

Friends,

Enough with the posturing back and forth.   I'm locking this thread for the time being.

Regards,
Christopher

[jdl4ever]

hmmmmmmm
“Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their G-d, and they shall be My people. They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more” (Jeremiah 31:31-34).

Read the beginning and end of that Chapter before you quote the middle and pretend you know what it is talking about.  The new covenent refers to the messianic era when G-d will bring us all back to Israel and we will stay there permanently and never get exiled again bec. G-d will guarantee it in a new covenent as verse 1-6 in that very chapter you quote states:  "G-d says:  The nation which has survived the sword has found favor in the desert.  I went to give Israel rest.  G-d appeared to me long ago "I have loved you with everlasting love.  Therefore, I continue to love you.  I will rebuild you and you will rebuilt O Maiden of Israel.  You will again take up your timbrels and go forth dancing with dancers.  You will again plant vineyards in the hills of Samaria, people will plant them and redeem them.  For a time is coming when watchmen in the hill country of Ephraim will call out:  "Come, let us go to Zion to G-d your L-rd"  For G-d says, Sing joyously  for Jacob!  Cry out on the hilltops of the nations!  Call out, sing praise and say "O G-d you have saved your people, the remnant of Israel....."

The covenant that we violated is listed in Deuternomy Chapter 28 which in summary says that if we observe the Torah then G-d will bless us making us prosper in Israel and if we break the covenant and we don't observe the Torah then G-d will punish us for breaking it and throw us out and curse us with suffering but eventually forgive us and bring us back to Israel if we heed the covenant again and it concludes:

"These are the words of the convenant that G-d commanded Moses to seal with the Children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant that he sealed with them in Horeb."

G-d's covenants are eternal, and there are several of them listed in the Bible, none violating each other since the Bible states that G-d's laws are eternal and can't ever be changed (Deuteronomy Chapter 13).  In messianic times G-d will make yet another covenant in addition to the one listed in Deut. 28 that has even more blessings than the other covenants listed in the Bible.

[jsullivan]

Notice the ugly and bitter hatred in Allen's posts. This is Christian "love"?

Allen, YOU are the liar. You are not banned even now but you did a video claiming that you are banned.

I tried reading Allen's response to Chaim but it was so illogical that I had difficulty reading it.

To call Jews "incomplete" or "unfulfilled" is to invalidate the Torah's "eternal covenant". Allen, be honest. You believe that Torah Jews who follow the Torah's "eternal covenant" are going to burn in hell forever.

YOUR ARROGANT AND INTOLERANT BELIEF SYSTEM IS VICIOUSLY ANTI-SEMITIC.

And Allen, you also believe that Catholics are going to burn in hell forever. Come out and say it honestly.

Allen, you ridicule people's intelligence on this forum, sarcastically calling them "geniuses" and "Einsteins". YOUR ARROGANCE IS ONLY EXCEEDED BY YOUR IGNORANCE.

YOU DO NOT SPEAK, READ OR WRITE A WORD OF HEBREW, YET YOU ARE TELLING JEWS WHO ARE FLUENT IN HEBREW WHAT THEIR BIBLE REALLY MEANS. AND YOU ARE DOING IT WITH ARROGANCE AND CONTEMPT.

You know NOTHING about genuine Torah Judaism, yet you lecture Torah Jews on how they are not "saved".

Also as far as your rejection of Catholicism, if you knew anything about history, you would know that the original GENTILE Christians were Catholic or what eventually became Catholicism in Rome. You might claim that there were also other Gentile Christians at the time who believed the way you believe, BUT YOU HAVE NO REAL HISTORICAL PROOF OF THAT AND THE CLAIM IS FALSE. THERE IS HISTORICAL PROOF THAT THE ORIGINAL CHRISTIANS WERE WHAT IS TODAY KNOWN AS CATHOLICISM.