Author Topic: 2012. Serious thread.  (Read 2907 times)

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Offline muman613

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Re: 2012. Serious thread.
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2012, 04:12:54 PM »
Here is what the 'ask moses' website says about Torah Codes:



http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/417,2094173/What-should-I-think-of-the-Bible-Codes.html#articlepage

Torah » G-d's Wisdom
What should I think of the "Bible Codes"?


Bible codes are quite a fascinating discovery, in which various historical episodes, facts and personalities can be found hidden within the very letters of the Bible. The primary method, by which, purportedly, meaningful messages have been extracted, is via a method known as ELS (equidistant letter sequences) – or simply put: one chooses a starting point and a skip number. Then, beginning at the starting point, one selects letters from the text at equal spacing as given by the skip number, and the result will be the Bible code.

Of the many codes found, some of the most famous include the assassination of former Israeli Prime Minister Yitzchak Rabin; the holocaust; the Gulf War; the existence of certain diseases such as AIDS and George W Bush being elected to presidency in 2004.

This breakthrough is becoming so widespread, that special software is being designed to ease the difficulty involved in extracting these complex codes.

So, for a Jew in today’s world, what is an appropriate reaction to this new finding? Is this perhaps a genuine example of scientific evidence endorsing the truths of our faith?

The concept of extracting pieces of information from the letters of the Bible has its origins within the writings of several great Rabbis in Jewish history. The Zohar states1 that G-d used Torah as a blueprint to create the world. Nachmanides was of the opinion that every name, as well as every event to occur throughout history, can be found within the letters of the Torah portion, Haazinu.2   The twelfth century Talmudist and Kabbalist, Rabbi Eliezer Rokeach, enumerated3   73 methods of understanding and interpreting the letters of the Torah. Amongst them is “the method of skipping”.4 The Vilna Gaon often encouraged his followers by finding their names hidden within letters of the Torah.

Similarly, the concept of Gematriah has been used in many classical texts and commentaries throughout the ages.5

To appreciate the issue of Bible codes, there are three points that need consideration:

1) The art of deciphering and extracting codes from the Bible wasn’t given to anyone who desired it. Great skills, wisdom and holiness are required when interpreting the words of the Bible. Many authorities spoke unkindly6 of those whom made their own discovery in the Bible and then formed their own explanations based upon it. The Sages of the Talmud, who made various extrapolations from the Bible text, were exceptionally holy men of enormous insight and humility. They possessed a “mesoret” – (tradition from Sinai), handed down through the generations, which guided their studies.

So, whilst it is an intrinsic Jewish belief that the Torah alludes to everything in our world, only people of great stature are capable of deciphering the codes.

2) We need to understand how much truth lies within the messages of the codes.

The story is told of a man who asked a renowned Chassidic Rebbe where his name could be found in the Torah. The man was delighted to find out that the very words which hinted to his name were words of praise and good fortune. Upon seeing the glee in the man’s eyes, the Rebbe warned him: “It is possible to have a name alluded to in a context regarding success and good luck. However, you must practice great caution not to become too secure in your future successes, lest you become sluggish in your service to G-d. Since all of life is based upon man’s choices, if need be (G-d forbid), another appearance of your name could be found in a context of bad luck and adversity.

In other words, no extrapolated message can serve as a guaranteed prediction. G-d always reserves the right to act as He wishes, normally befitting the demeanor of each person.

3) When speaking about proving one’s beliefs, it is crucial to bear in mind the vital difference between an essential proof, and suggestive evidence.

Imagine a father who discovers the whereabouts of his long-lost child, in an orphanage in some distant town. What would be required of the father in order to prove to the child that he is his father? Let’s say he produces an old family portrait, and displays how both his and the child’s smiles bear resemblance to each other. Obviously, that wouldn’t be sufficient, since the child could probably find tens of other men with smiles akin to his. Only by producing DNA samples, or perhaps a video of the child’s birth, could the father succeed in persuading the child that he is the true father.

However, when another child who experiences an occasional fleeting doubt about his parents, receives a compliment about his smile being akin to his father’s smile, it makes him more assured, more confident than he already is. It provides his belief in his parents with the extra boost it needs.

We can understand from this example a key principle in regards to any of our beliefs. Any proof that serves merely as peripheral and refutable evidence, cannot convince someone into a particular belief, nor can it serve as a foundation for any belief system. In order to acquire a certain belief, one needs to become privy with the very the essence of what he believes in.

So, for a Jew who already believes sincerely in the truth of the Bible, the response to the discovery of Bible codes should be one of fascination. Isn’t it wonderful to see that the very truths that we believe in are being confirmed and demonstrated by so many people outside of our religion!
 
But in no way does this discovery authenticate our belief. For us, it is like a bonus. If, hypothetically, some great prophet suddenly appears and invalidates the Bible-codes, it will not diminish our belief in even the slightest way. Our recognition of the Bible stems from a far greater and deeper source.

[Ed. note: It should be noted that bible code scholars only find things after they already happened. They don’t make any predictions. Needless to say, it can’t be used to predict anything, and definitely not to change a Torah law. For even an authentic prophet could not change Torah law, much less so a computer or math system].

Related Categories:
Torah » Codes and Numbers
Torah » Torah's Divine Origins
Miscellaneous » Hebrew / Languages » Codes and Numbers
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: 2012. Serious thread.
« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2012, 04:23:02 PM »
I like in the group, and 95% of them are missionaries, like Jews for Jesus

I though were those the same. I kind of forget most of what he said and have no intention of watching again, but was there anything useful?
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: 2012. Serious thread.
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2012, 04:40:00 PM »
No Messianic 'Jews' are apostates who believe in heresy.. They are the result of Christian attempts to proselytize Jews to believe in their 'messiah'.

Apostates and saying things that disagree with Judaism is fine. I saw an interview on Michael Coren with them, and the Jewish woman said that she is happy they found what they wanted and it made them happy, but don't call it Judaism, and at least show the same courtesy and be happy for observant Jews, and not tell them they are going to hell and try to convert them.

Also, not just in that interview, but every piece of literature they release starts with "oh I'm bob [or whatever] and I was looking to disprove the messiah, but ended up proving him. Work for me." which is a cheap trick (past-challenge-chance for victory, which ironically, is the formula used by Hitler to group-think brainwash the Germans to kill: we were a bigger country and great, Jews because of the Rothschilds took all our money, we can take over the whole world and leave only good-looking blonde bimbos) meant for the gullible and those that know nothing about Judaism in the first place.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: 2012. Serious thread.
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2012, 04:43:32 PM »
I like in the group, and 95% of them are missionaries, like Jews for Jesus
I didn't mean... I like. I meant... like in the group. I'm using a touch screen, and if I hit the wrong key I don't see it sometimes.
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: 2012. Serious thread.
« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2012, 04:57:34 PM »
I didn't mean... I like. I meant... like in the group. I'm using a touch screen, and if I hit the wrong key I don't see it sometimes.

Yeah, yeah I know screw them but how do you know this guy is, and is there anything useful coming out of his mouth?
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: 2012. Serious thread.
« Reply #30 on: August 29, 2012, 05:01:54 PM »
Yeah, yeah I know screw them but how do you know this guy is, and is there anything useful coming out of his mouth?
I will not talk about the NT in the general part of the forum. By what he is saying and I looked at some of his other videos.
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: 2012. Serious thread.
« Reply #31 on: August 29, 2012, 08:43:47 PM »
Ooh ooh Obama is in a vertical line that is dissected by a horizontal one saying assassination. Who is like unto the glory of the G-d of Israel, that he would encourage us so in our time of need?
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline angryChineseKahanist

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Re: 2012. Serious thread.
« Reply #32 on: August 29, 2012, 08:53:16 PM »
Oi vey! I vill never be a Jew. Must everything be complicated?
Anyway you can't make out anything based on a given name.
There are 300 million men named John Smith.
U+262d=U+5350=U+9774

Offline muman613

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Re: 2012. Serious thread.
« Reply #33 on: August 29, 2012, 08:54:56 PM »
Oi vey! I vill never be a Jew. Must everything be complicated?
Anyway you can't make out anything based on a given name.
There are 300 million men named John Smith.

But we use Hebrew names.... It is the persons given name plus the fathers given name (or mothers name when praying for health).

My Hebrew name is Michael Ben David Yehuda AKA Michael Ben Ruth (used when praying for my healing/refuah).


http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/761128/jewish/Why-is-a-persons-mothers-name-mentioned-when-praying-on-hisher-behalf.htm
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: 2012. Serious thread.
« Reply #34 on: August 29, 2012, 08:59:39 PM »
Oi vey! I vill never be a Jew. Must everything be complicated?
Anyway you can't make out anything based on a given name.
There are 300 million men named John Smith.

If you read Muman's link, you'll see that there are many rules before something is named a code and not a coincidence. Also, telling the future with it is useless, unless you know something I don't. The probabilities of a code happening that they call a code are like 1 in a billion. What are the odds in a random text that all the things surrounding his death and Kahane's name appear in concise patterns in a little square of text? Add it up, and this proves how uncomplicated life is when you believe the bible. I believe you confound complicated with in depth. The torah still makes 100% perfect sense when read as a book.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge