Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Shalom
muman613:
--- Quote from: her majesty on November 29, 2012, 11:35:44 AM ---Those "simple" questions have life changing consequences for me. I have built a life and a family with a man who i love and believe is my destiny. I hope my answer is as simple of having him convert to judaism which until now i have been unwilling to allow him to do because i didn't want him to do it just do it for me. I've been waiting for him to want to do it for himself. He is an incredible supporter of the jews and Israel as are his family and he believes jesus was just a man but not a god. He doesn't laugh at my being kosher or observing Shabbos when my own family does..His mother keeps a separate area in her home for kosher things..My mother and sister call me up just to tell me they are having lobster...would i like to come over. He even has a star of David tatoo on his neck for me..How can G-d be against that? I can't believe . As a baal Tshuva with no observant friends or family i study on my own & His family is the only real family i know & I never knew jews were forbidden from intermarraige if the jewish person remained jewish( if that is actually true). I have a call in to a (hopefully nicer ) orthodox rabbi to find out what this mishna is and if these are actual laws or prohibitions. So i'm glad my questions are so simple to you. I hope the answers will be as simple for me . Ephraim you are a mental defect and David ben Noah you are a callous [censored].
Shalom her majesty,
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I apologize for my colleagues apparent rudeness but I ask that you forgive them. Both Ephraim and Dan are very righteous and have good intention. The problem is that JTF has had many people come with ill intent, and attempt to divide the forum which is why the 'troll' accusation was leveled. I do not believe you are a troll and I take your explanation seriously.
We do not want to drive Jews away from their heritage. It is important for all Jews to do 'teshuva' and return to the ways of our forefathers. As you consider yourself a 'Baal Teshuva' and have made efforts to follow the 613 commandments I will attempt to help you by pointing you toward resources which will assist you in this tricky situation you seem to be in.
I know from experience because I too am a Baal Teshuva who returned 10 years ago. I too had intermarried to a non-Jewish woman even though I knew it was not permitted by the Jewish religion {My parents provided both my brother and myself with a basic Jewish education and a Bar Mitzvah (conservative)}. If you were truly not taught by your parents that it is not permitted for a Jew to marry out of the religion then I am very sorry about that, but you should be proud that you now are on the correct path. Now all that is needed is rectification for the mistakes which were made.
Your husband should convert if it is in his heart to do so. He should not do it just because you want him to do it, this will almost always back-fire in our face (converts can become anti-semites). But you must be able to present to him a Judaism which is inviting and spiritually fulfilling. I hope that the website and videos which we recommend here will help persuade him to see the advantages of being Jewish (and the disadvantages).
I do recommend you contact a local Chabad Rabbi and discuss your life situation with him. I have utmost trust in the wise wisdom of the Chabad Rabbis as I currently know personally three good Chabad rabbis in my area. If you prefer you can talk with any Orthodox rabbi who should be able to explain to you why we forbid intermarriage (and the Torah and Talmud sources for these prohibitions).
Please do not form your opinion of the entire JTF by this initial thread. I have great hope that you will grow by reading this forum, and hopefully you will be able to move your husband to take up Torah study. One thing to note though is that Judaism also forbids Tattoos ( http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/631046/jewish/Why-Does-Judaism-Forbid-Tattoos.htm ) so it might be better for him to cover it while initially talking with the Rabbi.
Have a great day,
muman613
See also:
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/52730/jewish/part-I-1-7.htm
muman613:
--- Quote from: her majesty on November 29, 2012, 01:56:34 PM ---Thanks.i sent an email to chabad.org and 1 to aish.com. I never met people as conservative as myself, and your views are almost as far to the right as mine are, and it appears in my attempt to try and satiate that desire for both Torah knowledge and jewish news that fit into my crazy little box of what i think is right it appears this link has opened up a can of worms that although i know is bashert ..my stomach turns at the implications now. And i get what you're saying are the rationalizations of the above but my respect is earned not given so no i don't forgive them. (your rabbi kahane used to come to my home when i was little......i remember him asking me to punch him in the stomach as hard as i could ( i was like 7) and i remember so well him making this face like i really hurt him and i started to cry..cause i felt bad i thought i relaly hurt him. after that i started karate at the old jdl.. ( a thousand years ago) I don't know why people become baaltshuv, but i think it's people...dead .family or others mabey that we never even met before who go to G-ds throne and see that a family has gone completley secular so they pray and ask G-d to make someone return..i don't know but the only time i remember religious people in my home as a child were rabbi kahana and shlomo carlebach who are both dead so mabey it was one of them..i don't know. but no i am not a troll..just a baaltshuva who got stuck in my learning i think.
--- End quote ---
Very interesting story... I just don't understand how you missed the important concept that intermarriage is forbidden because both Rabbi Kahane and Rabbi Shlomo Carlebach spoke frequently about preventing intermarriage...
http://www.torchweb.org/torah_detail.php?id=47
--- Quote ---The basic problem with the book – and a problem that many Jews who are trying to solve the problem of intermarriage share - is clear from a story Dershowitz tells on himself. He notes that he would not himself wish to marry a non-Jewish woman, yet cannot fully explain to his own children why they should not. (In fact, Dershowitz relates, one of his sons married a Gentile.) His difficulties in thinking through the issue came to a head in a debate with the late Rabbi Meir Kahane, which Dershowitz--a brilliant debater--admits having lost:"
He asked me whether I wanted my children to marry Jews. Without hesitation, I said yes. Then he asked whether my desire was based on Halachah [Jewish law]. I said no. "Then," he insisted, pointing a finger at me, "you are nothing but a racist." I was taken aback by this strident accusation, but Kahane explained: "There are plenty of wonderful non-Jewish people who would make marvelous spouses for your children. Why are you excluding them all, unless you are obligated to exclude them by religious law? If you are merely expressing an ethnic preference for one of your own kind - that is the essence of racism." If Kahane was unkind in using the term "racist," his basic point was right. What possible reason is there to remain Jewish [especially] if one lacks deep cultural and ethnic roots--now very rare among American Jews--unless one actually believes in Judaism as a religion?
--- End quote ---
http://www.globalyeshiva.com/profiles/blogs/rabbi-meir-kahanes-legacy
--- Quote ---In 1968, he founded the Jewish Defense League as a response to the rising tide of anti-Semitism in America's inner cities. Under Rabbi Kahane's leadership, JDL members engaged in protests against anti-Semitic teachers in the public school system, provided escorts for elderly Jews and educated Jewish youth in the art of self-defense. With a membership numbering over 15,000, the JDL organized mass rallies in New York against the Soviet Union's policy of persecuting Zionist activists and curbing Jewish immigration to Israel and they played the lead role in the "Free Soviet Jewry" movement through campaigning for the release of Russian refuseniks and their emigration to Israel. JDL also protested against the oppression of Jewish population in Muslim countries, battled Neo-Nazis and white supremacists in the United States and resisted Christian missionaries' activity to convert Jews.
In 1980, Rabbi Kahane formed the Kach political party in Israel and in 1984 was elected as a Member of the Knesset (MK). Rabbi Kahane refused to take the standard oath of office upon his election and insisted on adding a verse from Tehillim to indicate that when secular laws and Torah conflict, Torah law should have supremacy over the laws of the Knesset. Rabbi Kahane's legislative proposals focused on transferring the hostile Arab population out of Israel, revoking the Israeli citizenship for non-Jews and banning Jewish-Gentile marriages and sexual relations, based on the Code of Jewish Law compiled by the Rambam in the Mishneh Torah.
--- End quote ---
muman613:
muman613:
--- Quote from: her majesty on November 29, 2012, 03:58:51 PM ---i was a kid. i'm sure r kahane never discussed that with me, and shlomo carlebach never once spoke about religion to me...i don't think my parents would have allowed either of them to even if they had tried. Until i watched a video this week on youtube i never heard rabbi kahana speak before and never i have never read any of his books.. and as for shlomo i didn't even know he was a rabbi.i thought he was just a singer with a kipa on..we talked about things but never judaism.as i stated my parents would probably not have allowed either of them to. (my sister is a lesbian)They are both proud jews but G-d was never spoken of in our home xcpt by my housekeeper who i spent most of my childhood with since my parents went away alot so she was very religious and taught me christianity and brought me to black churches and i always knew G-d was real so believed her..but until i got older and started to study the origions of what she was teaching me finally came to the conclusion that what she taught me wasn't real. I never went to high school but i did always continue studying about religions trying to figure out what was real but until someone gave me a Torah when i was 20 that was the first time i had ever read or seen that.then .one day after a decade of reading it i realised that the things it said were commandments and that i was supposed to do them,,so i stopped reading it and started studying it..After being let down in the morals department by every rabbi i ever met i just kept to the 613 commandments that i know are commandments, but stopped doing the prohibitions one of which i assum(ed) is not to intermarry. I 'm basically an observant jew (xcpt for the way i dress) living in a secular world which i don't mind a bit..I study Torah every day but never anything but Torah and Talmud....so still awaiting to see what the story is with this page and if it is actual laws or what...i'm not sure whats in ^ box.it's blank on my computer if it was meant for me to see. Are you a rabbi? Is what you write from your mind or quotes form other sources.
--- End quote ---
Shalom,
I am not a Rabbi though the thought has crossed my mind to go to Yeshiva to get Shmicha (ordination). I am a full-time Software Engineer at a technology company in Silicon Valley. I post my opinions but I always try to find the sources and post links to those sources.
I don't know what you mean 'prohibitions'? There are 613 commandments in the Torah, of these there are 248 positive (thou shall) commandments and 365 negative (thou shall not) commandments in the Torah. The negative commandments (all 365) are considered 'prohibitions'.
PS: I posted a video which discussed the issue of intermarriage..
See also:
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/901695/jewish/Positive-Commandments.htm
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/901723/jewish/Negative-Commandments.htm
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/e/e0002.htm
Negative Command # 52
52. Not to marry gentiles, as [Deuteronomy 7:3] states: "Do not marry among them."
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/148995/jewish/On-Intermarriage.htm
Tag-MehirTzedek:
--- Quote from: Dan Ben Noah on November 29, 2012, 05:05:54 PM ---Also, another question I would like to bring up in this thread to those who know more about the Mishneh Torah:
This chapter on forbidden sexual relations appears to include the laws for conversion because conversion status affects whether someone is permissible/forbidden for marriage to Jews. I did not see anything in the conversion laws about converts having to take on a new name at their conversion and I'm not sure if there's another place that discusses it. Is re-naming converts a practice that has a basis in the Mishneh Torah at all or does it only come from other sources/traditions?
--- End quote ---
Perhaps when the Rambam talks about a Jew doing Teshuva as well. Just like in that case he has a new "identity" soo to speak, soo too for a convert who becomes a new person.
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