Putin vows ‘Russia will never forget Holocaust’

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I don't think Lady 10 said she supports Iran and in fact she clarified that. But I think it's insane for Serbs or anyone else to see any possibility of being allied to Muslims in any way, shape, or form under any circumstances. Chaim is right.

[Dr. Dan]

Mr Pesach, that was a fact, Iran did not recognize the false state Kosovo. The less countries do that, the better. I however am not stupid not to know the other fact, which is that the muslims from Iran came to Bosnia during the war to support Bosnian muslims by killing the Serbs and raping Serbian women and children.

First off, Muslims nations do not support each other especially when it is Sunni vs. Shia.  So the fact that Iran doesn't support a Kosovo...doesn't surprise me.  It wouldn't surprise me if Iran wished the total destruction of Turkey, Egypt, Iraq and Saudi Arabia either. 

So just because they may or may not be anti-Kosovo doesn't make them the good guys. If a Nazi supported the existence of Serbia, you would accept their help...am I wrong in assuming that?

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I utterly disagree with a statement that I supposedly "support Muslim Nazis". I also don't think that's JTFer serbian army does either. If that was the case, then he would be banned already and as I can see he is a member of this forum for years. The thing that I simply acknowledge a fact that a certain country didn't recognize a part of our country as an independent, is what I said: an acknowledgment and not "anti-Semitic propaganda" by any means. It was not any type of attack against Israel.And I would also never support muslims over Jewish people, and had never said the opposite.

Serbia has recently joined the EU sanctions against Iran because of its nuclear program and lifted sanctions to stop international payments and import of gas from Iran.  Serbia doesn't support Iran's nuclear program, although Russia criticizes several times the EU sanctions on Iran.

This diplomatic act means that our country doesn't "jump when and where Russia tells us to", like one JTFer posted on this topic.

I know that you were not defending Iran. But it certainly appeared that Serbian Army was, and he said a lot of awful and crazy things (like that Jews "oppressed" Russians for 300 years).

[serbian army]

You say, "Iran is not a Nazi nation"?!?!?!?!??!!?   

So I guess Holocaust denial and the desire to wipe Israel off the map is not Nazi like to you?  I'm shocked!!!!

How can I accept claims that Russians are nazis when their nation endured horrific loss of 27 million people to defeat hitler's forces?
How can I accept claims that Iranians are nazis when they were occupied by the allied forces and totally neutral in WWII?
If you torture me, kill me, do any imaginary suffering possible to me, I will not accept such false claims.

I also think it is a terrible tragedy for Iranians to associate themselves with any nazi historians claiming that Holocaust is Jewish conspiracy. They should should apologize right now for that. BUT I believe no one in the world can claim their part in Holocaust whatsoever.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

When we say Nazi we mean anyone who hates and has been an enemy of the Jewish people at any time, not just somebody who formally belonged to or worked for the Third Reich. However, the ONLY reason Iran was not in the Axis was because the Soviets and British occupied it. The entire Muslim world wanted to join the Axis, you know that.

[muman613]

Listen Here,

I don't care about the Serbs or the Bosnians or anyone else for that matter. On this issue of Russia and its treatment of the Jewish people I have ONE THING TO SAY.... The Russians were evil in their mistreatment of the Jewish people. I know this as a descendant of Ukrainian and Polish Jews. My family was persecuted and left before the major troubles came down, but they were lucky because so many of my fellow Ukrainian Jews and Polish Jews met a fate worse than death.

The wiki page which I posted only mentions very large pogroms, but there were many which were not as publicized. The Jew hatred which existed in Russia was mainly from the Church but had support from the highest level of the government. My forefathers were not RICH JEWISH BANKERS in Ukraine, they were not masters of the financial institutions in Uman, they were not monopolists who controlled the free market. They were plain and simple town-folks who worked as laborers in the field. The story that my grandfathers came here with little more than a few dollars in their pocket are a sign to me that they left everything because they had nothing there in Ukraine.

I have heard from Jews from Russia that they hid their Judaism from everyone, even being afraid to have to shower with the non-Jewish children for fear they would notice he was circumcised. I have heard that Jews were treated worse than blacks were treated during segregation in the South here in America. I have heard that Jews would be routinely harassed if the non-Jewish neighbors knew you were of Jewish descent. It sounded like until recently it was HELL FOR a JEW on Earth in Russia.

And the stories I have heard about religious Jews being hauled off to Siberia for simply teaching Judaism. Those who tried to help Jews keep the religion would also be persecuted. It is no wonder that many Russian Jews are very careful to whom they reveal their inherited religion. I used to go to a Synagogue with a guy who came from Russia, who is actually an officer in the Synagogues organization, who would tell me stories about how he would never tell anyone that he was a Jew.

It is nothing short of CHUTZPAH to deny the facts that Russia and the Soviet system both have a desire to persecute Jews. There is NO EXCUSE for it as Serbian Army suggests. And Chaim is correct that the Khazar empire did not entirely convert to Judaism, it was mainly the aristocracy of the empire which converted {as this is documented in a great Jewish writing}. And to blame Jews for their own suffering is an evil thing to do. The Jews were forced to do the jobs they did because the laws were written restricting what jobs a Jew could do. The fact that Jews are very often quite intelligent in their business dealings is not something to be hated for, but it seems non-Jews will always find an excuse to hate the Jew..

[Serbian Canadian]

I haven't posted here in a long time. I'd just like to say as far as the Russian issue is concerned, I don't blame any Jews for hating Russia, they have every right to be angry. When the Serbian section was first made, Chaim was fully aware that Russia was our main ally and he was fine with it. That does not mean that the crimes against the Jews done by Russians were to be forgotten or denied.

Chaim and the administrators fully understood our ties to the Russians as a people because of our religion and the fact that they are the lone power to support our fight against Muslims and they accepted it. I will say though as a general rule, many Serbs sometimes give too much credit to Russia as when we needed them the most in March 1999, they gave the go-ahead to the U.S. to start bombing. So I am not all that in love with them myself.   

You can say anything you like Russia calls the shots in your country and still does... Russia tells you Serbians to jump and the Serbian government  asks how high the jumping needs to be...

You're so completely ignorant it's laughable. That statement alone shows how clueless you are. You probably also think that Russian and Serbian is the same thing. With the current regime in Serbia, the U.S. and the EU have more say in what Serbia does these days than anybody on the planet.

In my opinion Clinton did not do enough to help your country when he had the opportunity... He should have done far more...Serbs and Russians are one in the same in my book

America is great and America can do no wrong. Typical American chauvinism and ignorance. This is why so much of the world hates you. In my opinion, Hurricane Sandy did not do enough to help you and your family, she should have done far more.

You hate Russia but you don't even know why anymore, you're so brainwashed. I can understand why Jews would hate Russia and they have every right to. You're not Jewish though, you're just stuck in the cold war years. The cold war ended over 20 years ago, get your head out of the sand.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I haven't posted here in a long time. I'd just like to say as far as the Russian issue is concerned, I don't blame any Jews for hating Russia, they have every right to be angry. When the Serbian section was first made, Chaim was fully aware that Russia was our main ally and he was fine with it. That does not mean that the crimes against the Jews done by Russians were to be forgotten or denied.

Chaim and the administrators fully understood our ties to the Russians as a people because of our religion and the fact that they are the lone power to support our fight against Muslims and they accepted it. I will say though as a general rule, many Serbs sometimes give too much credit to Russia as when we needed them the most in March 1999, they gave the go-ahead to the U.S. to start bombing. So I am not all that in love with them myself.   

You're so completely ignorant it's laughable. That statement alone shows how clueless you are. You probably also think that Russian and Serbian is the same thing. With the current regime in Serbia, the U.S. and the EU have more say in what Serbia does these days than anybody on the planet.

America is great and America can do no wrong. Typical American chauvinism and ignorance. This is why so much of the world hates you. In my opinion, Hurricane Sandy did not do enough to help you and your family, she should have done far more.

You hate Russia but you don't even know why anymore, you're so brainwashed. I can understand why Jews would hate Russia and they have every right to. You're not Jewish though, you're just stuck in the cold war years. The cold war ended over 20 years ago, get your head out of the sand.

Very good post Serbian Canadian.

[USAReturn2GodNow1776]

Let's say for the sake of argument that 100% of the scientific advances of Russia were made by Jews. Then 100% of it was made by Russians as Jews living in Russia were Russians. Nobody carried them there on slave ships...

[muman613]

I was a fan of JTF for years, I have been reading this forum for years too so I know YOUR OWN opinion on other religions besides islam. Whatever you say about US, it really doesn't surprise me one bit.

If you don't like me telling a story from my own personal experience about Bosnian Muslims, then don't read the post. You constantly imply how some people here "hate Jews", and if that is really the truth I don't think JTFer serbian army, me or any other Serbian JTFer would come here at first place. So if someone said something unappropriate, then that person (whoever it is) will be banned.

I am not here to tell "Nazi anti-Semitic propaganda", my family fought against Nazis, my ancestors lost their lives, my family friends are Jews....

I rest my case here.

lady10,

I apologize if my statement was blunt. I honestly do care about all people who are suffering. I do not know enough about your conflict to comment sensibly. And I am glad you and your family were righteous concerning Jews and the issues of Jewish people.

I am not making any personal accusations about my statements concerning Jew hatred in Ukraine, Soviet Union & Russia, and Europe. Also I do not deny that other people have been grossly mistreated by these same governments and institutions. We are living in the shadow of the 'Cold War' which I feel for some strange reason is lurking under the surface to this day.

I am not telling you what you should or should not say either. You are free to express your opinion... And do not take my arguments personally.

[USAReturn2GodNow1776]

I think it's gonna turn out either that Jews have a right to hate Russia and so do we on their behalf or that neither we nor the Jews have a right to hate Russia.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I was a fan of JTF for years, I have been reading this forum for years too so I know YOUR OWN opinion on other religions besides islam. Whatever you say about US, it really doesn't surprise me one bit.

If you don't like me telling a story from my own personal experience about Bosnian Muslims, then don't read the post. You constantly imply how some people here "hate Jews", and if that is really the truth I don't think JTFer serbian army, me or any other Serbian JTFer would come here at first place. So if someone said something unappropriate, then that person (whoever it is) will be banned.

I am not here to tell "Nazi anti-Semitic propaganda", my family fought against Nazis, my ancestors lost their lives, my family friends are Jews....

I rest my case here.

Lady 10, JTF does care about the Serbs. You can't take any individual opinions here as JTF position.

However, we are also very upset about Russian anti-Semitism.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

@ Serbian Canadian!

 "America is great and America can do no wrong. Typical American chauvinism and ignorance. This is why so much of the world hates you. In my opinion, Hurricane Sandy did not do enough to help you and your family, she should have done far more. "

America is great! If it wasn't for us, the world would of killed each other off! Fine maybe we should of let everybody slaughter each other!

"You hate Russia but you don't even know why anymore, you're so brainwashed. I can understand why Jews would hate Russia and they have every right to. You're not Jewish though, you're just stuck in the cold war years. The cold war ended over 20 years ago, get your head out of the sand."

Why do I hate Russia? Because of its communist influence on the Western world! Maybe if there wasn't a progressive communist influence on the United States, the US wouldn't of attack Serbians!

[briann]

I'm really horrified at the posts here....  Especially the one about Hurricane Sandy not doing enough to injure Americans...  I think there needs to be some moderation here.

Also... it is beyond me that there are members here who don't recognize that Putin is an evil opportunist.  He is actively helping to arm the Iranians and helping with their Nuclear program.

That doesnt mean all Russians or Ukranians are evil...    I will use my famous quote....  I know many Russians/Ukranians who are decent people (including myself)... but my god....   Putin is NOT one of them.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

@ Serbian Canadian!

 "America is great and America can do no wrong. Typical American chauvinism and ignorance. This is why so much of the world hates you. In my opinion, Hurricane Sandy did not do enough to help you and your family, she should have done far more. "

America is great! If it wasn't for us, the world would of killed each other off! Fine maybe we should of let everybody slaughter each other!

"You hate Russia but you don't even know why anymore, you're so brainwashed. I can understand why Jews would hate Russia and they have every right to. You're not Jewish though, you're just stuck in the cold war years. The cold war ended over 20 years ago, get your head out of the sand."

Why do I hate Russia? Because of its communist influence on the Western world! Maybe if there wasn't a progressive communist influence on the United States, the US wouldn't of attack Serbians!

Chill out dude. SC came on here to try to smooth things out here. He said nothing wrong.

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

בס''ד

I haven't posted here in a long time. I'd just like to say as far as the Russian issue is concerned, I don't blame any Jews for hating Russia, they have every right to be angry. When the Serbian section was first made, Chaim was fully aware that Russia was our main ally and he was fine with it. That does not mean that the crimes against the Jews done by Russians were to be forgotten or denied.

Chaim and the administrators fully understood our ties to the Russians as a people because of our religion and the fact that they are the lone power to support our fight against Muslims and they accepted it. I will say though as a general rule, many Serbs sometimes give too much credit to Russia as when we needed them the most in March 1999, they gave the go-ahead to the U.S. to start bombing. So I am not all that in love with them myself.   

We have no problem with Serbs seeking the support of Russia. In fact, I wish Russia would support the Serbs far more.

But to open a deliberately provocative thread praising Russian behavior toward the Jews, praising the left-wing traitor Shimon Peres, and lecturing the Jews on how we should be grateful to the Russian mass murderers who slaughtered and tortured our people for centuries is the height of arrogance and ignorance.

Worse yet, "Serbian army" had the unmitigated gall to justify Russian genocide against the Jews by stating that the Jews "occupied" Russia for three centuries and taxed the Russian people. This type of Nazi Jew-hatred comes right out of Hitler's Meine Kampf: accusing the Jews of secretly controlling nations. Obviously, this vicious anti-Semitism can only harm relations between Serbs and Jews.

[cjd]

I haven't posted here in a long time. I'd just like to say as far as the Russian issue is concerned, I don't blame any Jews for hating Russia, they have every right to be angry. When the Serbian section was first made, Chaim was fully aware that Russia was our main ally and he was fine with it. That does not mean that the crimes against the Jews done by Russians were to be forgotten or denied.

Chaim and the administrators fully understood our ties to the Russians as a people because of our religion and the fact that they are the lone power to support our fight against Muslims and they accepted it. I will say though as a general rule, many Serbs sometimes give too much credit to Russia as when we needed them the most in March 1999, they gave the go-ahead to the U.S. to start bombing. So I am not all that in love with them myself.   

You're so completely ignorant it's laughable. That statement alone shows how clueless you are. You probably also think that Russian and Serbian is the same thing. With the current regime in Serbia, the U.S. and the EU have more say in what Serbia does these days than anybody on the planet.

America is great and America can do no wrong. Typical American chauvinism and ignorance. This is why so much of the world hates you. In my opinion, Hurricane Sandy did not do enough to help you and your family, she should have done far more.

You hate Russia but you don't even know why anymore, you're so brainwashed. I can understand why Jews would hate Russia and they have every right to. You're not Jewish though, you're just stuck in the cold war years. The cold war ended over 20 years ago, get your head out of the sand.

Yes in my eyes the United States is great and can do no wrong... For me Sandy was a minor inconvenience... The storm damage was minimal and my time without actual power was very short less then a few hours... I had backup power right along to serve most of my needs... I am an old style American that deals with my problems not pisses and moans about every so called injustice real or made up... Any storm damage will soon be repaired and in my case its not even worth talking about... My family and I will be just fine we did not spend one single night cold, hungry or in the dark... It was not the first of such storms nor will it be the last... As I said Serbia can cozy up to Russia all it likes... Russia is a savior that expects more in return than it gives out... You Serbs deserve a savior like Russia... In the end Russia may give you the same fine treatment you claim it gave its Jewish citizens... As far as the United States being hated  well what can we do it's just the way it is... I know it's not costing most Americans any lost sleep.

[Serbian Canadian]

בס''ד

Worse yet, "Serbian army" had the unmitigated gall to justify Russian genocide against the Jews by stating that the Jews "occupied" Russia for three centuries and taxed the Russian people. This type of Nazi Jew-hatred comes right out of Hitler's Meine Kampf: accusing the Jews of secretly controlling nations. Obviously, this vicious anti-Semitism can only harm relations between Serbs and Jews.

I agree and he should have known better. The real problem here is that everytime someone opens up a thread about Russia, it turns into this and we have fighting amongst some Serbian and non-Serbian members.

In the end Russia may give you the same fine treatment you claim it gave its Jewish citizens...

I never made this claim. "Serbian army" doesn't speak for all of us.

And I am actually glad you are okay cjd, because I am not the kind of person who wishes hardship on others (contrary to your opinion that we should have been bombed even more). I simply wrote that to make a point.   

Also, we are not whining or moaning about the fact that the U.S. attacked Serbia, it is merely presented as a fact and denounced. Chaim and Ben Moshe certainly weren't whining about it when they made their videos on YouTube, they were saying how heinous and treacherous it was, considering how loyal we were to the U.S. in both World Wars. Ater all, the whole point of a forum is to have discussions.

I also don't hate America or Americans in general, I have many American friends and I have family living there. There are a lot of things I like about America and some things I dislike (I know you don't care but I'm pointing it out anyway).

If you think that every action your country takes is great and that the bombing wasn't such a bad thing and in fact that it was a good thing, I can't change your mind and I'm not going to. Just know that as long as you stay in JTF, you're on a pro-American and pro-Serbian forum.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Let's keep a few things in perspective, shall we?


1: Serbian_army said some crazy, wild, and anti-Semitic things for no reason at all and none of us were going to ignore that.

2: Serbs will always gravitate towards Russia as their ally for historical and ethnic reasons. This does not mean they are no different than Russians.

3: This does NOT mean that the rest of JTF will support Russia or Russians.

4: Serbs have every right to be upset at the United States because of the way the U.S. government and the overwhelming majority of U.S. politicians have treated them. That being said, some Americans have never agreed with this, such as most JTFers.

5: American/Western JTF members have every right to support the health and welfare of America.

6: All JTFers must oppose Obama and support the Serbs.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Didn't realize "serbian army" was a closet antisemite with nonsensical conspiracy-theorist and hitler-like paranoia about Jews.   This thread was eye opening to say the least.   "Serbian army" you are a disgrace.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Documentary evidence as to the presence of Jews in Muscovite Russia is first found in the chronicles of 1471.

Wow, pretty early for Russia.  Impressive.    Jews were in Western and Central Europe before getting to the east and I wasn't aware of when that movement really started taking place.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Ok, lets go back long before 1471. Do you believe life of ordinary Russian was better under 3 century Jewish of occupation? Slavic hero Sviatoslav I won freedom for his oppressed people in 965 before helping his Serb brothers in Balkans. If we look at history, people of Jewish faith attacked Russians first and oppressed them with high taxation for 3 centuries. If we are to talk about persecution lets start from the beginning.

lol, are you on crack?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

In 212, Caracalla bestowed citizenship on all its residents, including the Jews. This granted Jews legal equality to all other citizens, and formed the foundation of their legal status in Byzantium following the founding of Constantinople in 330.[1] Indeed, Jews enjoyed the right to practice their faith under the rule of the Byzantines, as long as they paid the Fiscus Judaicus. For example, circumcision, which was considered mutilation and therefore punishable by death if performed on a non-Jewish child, and by exile if performed on a non-Jewish adult, was legally permitted within Jewish religious practices. Byzantine law recognized synagogues as places of worship, which could not be arbitrarily molested, Jewish courts had the force of law in civil cases, and Jews could not be forced to violate Shabbat and their festivals.

I guess some "historians" have rewritten the byzantine history books in the same way you are trying to rewrite russia's murderous nazi past.    Maybe you forget that the "victors" aren't the only ones who keep history books, as long as some of their victims survive.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Your opponents will probably just say that Russia fought the Germans for their own reasons like how Muslims are always fighting and genociding each other.

Russia still rules, IMO.

You do realize that Russia was allied with Hitler until he betrayed them right?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Your attitude toward Russian people is very racist. At least your post is composed as such. Khazars ruled European part or Russia for a long time and oppressed Russians with high taxation. Khazars are nation of Mongol origin that accepted Jewish faith and brought thousands of Jews from all over the world to their kingdom. This is not some conspiracy theory but easily verified information even of Wikipedia.

Brought thousands of Jews from all over the world?   LOL what planet do you live on?  Khazar Kingdom was pretty small, and it didn't last long.   And are you really blaming JEWS for the taxation levels of the Khazar Kingdom in the 11th century?  And this somehow has anything to do with modern day Russia.   Or even the pogroms in the 1600's and 1700's.    LOLOLOLOL.   Right, and you can really point to what the taxation levels were.  Cause you have all the Khazar Bureau of Labor Statistics data from 1100 years ago.   And you have a detailed history of that kingdom which no one ever wrote.   And of course primary sources describing "Life in 10th century Khazaria" which as well no one ever wrote.   Do you even realize how insane you sound?

Meanwhile, you cite the excessive taxation of the Byzantines against Jews just for being Jewish, (yup, a racist tax based on ethnicity and religion, not simply a govt taxing people to run the govt affairs - a victimizing tax), and you say to us that we escaped lucky because we should be happy that they chose to excessively tax us rather than murder us.    (But in reality they did murder and persecute many - but you ignore this).   
Your post is incredibly misleading and ignorant. Congrats.