Jewish Women Serving As Members of the Knesset (Israel's Parliment)

[edu]

From Rambam Hilchot Melachim, chapter 1 Halacha 5, it would at first glance, appear that in a Jewish State, Women Should not be appointed to be the Leaders. Some would extend this even to include not being a law maker in Israel's parliment.
In a Hebrew article, Newpaper editor Immanuel Shilo claims that Rabbi Moshe Tzuriel is in favor of allowing women to be Knesset Members
see http://www.inn.co.il/Articles/Article.aspx/10791
I remain confused about this issue, especially since I am told (I did not read about this in some official Kahanist writings) that when someone suggested that Rabbi Kahane put an Arab convert to Judaism on his party list to prove he wasn't racist, he turned the idea down, because he said the Torah doesn't allow converts to fill such Jewish governmental positions.
Although the key word to prove the halacha are different, it appears that both rules (not having converts in government leadership positions and not having women in the same positions) are both learned from Dvarim (Deuteronomy17:15).
To sum up my question, 1)Would a Kahanist support on the ideal level, having a woman as an Israeli Knesset member? 2)Would a Kahanist support having women Knesset members if that was a way of increasing the influence of the True Right in Politics, where we see that the left and the Phoney Right advocate policies that are leading to the murder of innocent Jews?

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

http://www.jpost.com/JewishWorld/JewishNews/Article.aspx?id=289132

 This is R' Aviner on this. Notice the extreme backlash. Simply put Jewish society unfortunately is not ready nor comfortable with such issues as of yett.
 On the other hand, their were Jewish women leaders(Devorah, etc.) I guess it is not a simple discussion but people need to put their emotions aside and decide these issues properly.
 
 With having non-Jewish converts as part of rulers- I know for sure someone who is a convert or descendants of converts (although not sure how many generation, maybe 1 or 2) should not be appointed as the national leader. Although converts are loved and we hold extremely highly of them never-the-less their would be some issues involved. For example dealing with that nation the convert came from. Their would be many problems for example attacking the people he came from. Or the other way around having biases on the other side as well. Also Israelites saying negative things against the person's former nation would also be problematic. 

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

The whole debate about women is a pointless exercise.  Society has changed.  There is no way to turn back the clock.   On the other hand, there is a big difference between a Jewish male / Jewish female issue, vs. a Jewish leader vs. Foreign alien leader issue.     I don't see how that cannot be clear although granted they do seem to stem from the same location it still doesn't make the issues the same.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

The whole debate about women is a pointless exercise.  Society has changed.  There is no way to turn back the clock.   

 Really? Soo you agree with the reformers who preach things like taking away the whole issue of Jewish marriage and abolishing the Rabbanut in dealing with Jewish marriages in Israel. If they get their way their would be a disaster in Israel to say the least. Their would just be 2 groups which will never mix ever. Jews who go by Halacha and the admixture of others. Maybe Jews, non-Jews, mamzerim all under their own secular system.

[edu]

The Rishonim are bothered by the question how was the female prophet Devorah able to rule and judge Israel
Tosafot to tractate Nida 50a suggests, that a prophetic command told Israel to temporarily break the normal halachic rules, or a second suggestion made by Tosafot is that they were figurehead male leaders or judges, who were in the official positions but they in practice followed whatever Devorah told them to do.
Ritva to Tractate 30a also suggests the 2nd idea raised by Tosafot or he adds the possibilty, that if the public wants to be judged by invalid judges, they have the right to do so.
I have not sufficiently researched Ritva's opinion to determine if he was just focusing on how individual court cases could be judged by Devorah or if he was also answering the question, how could the political leadership be in the hands of Devorah.
I also so far have found that Rabbeinu Nissim (R"N) on the Rif for tractate Gittin voices ideas pretty similar to Ritva's viewpoint.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Really? Soo you agree with the reformers who preach things like taking away the whole issue of Jewish marriage and abolishing the Rabbanut in dealing with Jewish marriages in Israel.

Nope.  That's not a valid comparison.   I do not agree to giving the institution of marriage into secular hands.

[muman613]

Ok, now for some more of my delightful 'sexist humor'...


Jewish Women Serving Food



PS: This post was entirely intended for laughs, it does not in any way reflect my feelings on whether women should serve in government.

[Every Jew AK47]

Women should be world leaders, yadayadayada.. But, I find them much sexier when they spend more of their time in the kitchen, cooking me up some good food   

Society has changed.. For the better , right?

[דוד בן זאב אריה]

Avineir Can go screw himself

[edu]

 Rabbi Yisrael Ariel, who was #2 on Rabbi Meir Kahane's party list stated his opinion on the subject.
He said, especially under the conditions we face today, he would allow a religious Jewish woman to be a member of the Knesset.
I hope to expound on his line of reasoning, bli neder, in a future post.

[edu]

For someone who wants to see the exact reply of Rav Yisrael Ariel on this subject go to the hebrew forum at http://hayamin.org/forum/index.php/topic,37485.0.html
I will make an attempt to translate part of his reply at this time
While there is a situation where a woman is strongly observant of the commandments and acts with Tzniut (modesty) and contirbutes to the spiritual and the security leadership of the nation of Israel, in my humble opinion (writes Rabbi Ariel) there doesn't have to be a problem (having a woman in a leadership position or the knesset).

See what our sages stated in the matter of Dvorah the female prophet (Breishit Rabba, Parshat Lech Lecha, Parsha 40) Barak said to her: if you go with me I will go and if you will not go with me I will not go! Rabbi Yehuda and Rabbi Nechemia commented.
Rabbi Yehuda said: if you will go to me to Kedesh I will go with you to Chatzor! And if you will not go with me to Kedesh-I will not go with you to Chatzor!
Rabbi Nechemia said: if you will go with me for a song of praise - I will go with you to war and if you do not go with me for a song of praise I will not go with you to war.
"And she said (replied) I will surely go with you however you shall scarcely attain honor".

That is to say in the opinion of the sages, when one has to go and battle in Kedesh and Chatzor, behold it is a time of emergency and war and therefore even a woman goes out to war!
   Now going to our topic, a female member of the Knesset who observes commandments as described above is worth all the secularists in the Knesset combined, both in security issues and in matters relating to the land of Israel. Therefore, even if just for the reason
"It is a time to do for Hashem, they have annulled your Torah", the matter is permitted.
It is clear that also in the war over the holy things of Israel, this is a war, and when others,
such as secularists and Arabs, are fighting to destroy education and the world of Torah and to destroy settlements and to hand over territories to the enemy, in this matter it was stated,
"All go out, even a groom from his room and a bride from her Chupa" (Sotah page 44).

Bli Neder, G-d willing I will translate more of Rabbi Ariel's words at another time.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

For someone who wants to see the exact reply of Rav Yisrael Ariel on this subject go to the hebrew forum at http://hayamin.org/forum/index.php/topic,37485.0.html
I will make an attempt to translate part of his reply at this time
While there is a situation where a woman is strongly observant of the commandments and acts with Tzniut (modesty) and contirbutes to the spiritual and the security leadership of the nation of Israel, in my humble opinion (writes Rabbi Ariel) there doesn't have to be a problem (having a woman in a leadership position or the knesset).That is to say in the opinion of the sages, when one has to go and battle in Kedesh and Chatzor, behold it is a time of emergency and war and therefore even a woman goes out to war!
   Now going to our topic, a female member of the Knesset who observes commandments as described above is worth all the secularists in the Knesset combined, both in security issues and in matters relating to the land of Israel. Therefore, even if just for the reason
"It is a time to do for Hashem, they have annulled your Torah", the matter is permitted.
It is clear that also in the war over the holy things of Israel, this is a war, and when others,
such as secularists and Arabs, are fighting to destroy education and the world of Torah and to destroy settlements and to hand over territories to the enemy, in this matter it was stated,
"All go out, even a groom from his room and a bride from her Chupa" (Sotah page 44).

Bli Neder, G-d willing I will translate more of Rabbi Ariel's words at another time.

Very interesting.

It is pretty clear that the Torah does not even mention a "secularist" in a leadership position because there is no such person, to the Torah.  Such a person isn't a part of the Torah society at all, let alone a leader of it.   Such a person has extricated him/herself from Torah society.   Women and converts and foreigners etc have to be mentioned in terms of leadership status (and what they can or cannot do) because they indeed are a valid part of Jewish society.

I didn't realize his point about the emergency situation, but that's very astute.     I think that the evolution of society goes hand in hand with this aspect, but he obviously did not say that here.

I think we are all remiss to not consider the fact that women, up until very recent times, were not educated.   As such, why should an uneducated person be made a leader?      I strongly believe that has a lot to do with that particular prohibition.