Shalom

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

So in other words it's not a commandment from G-d that you can't be with a non jew..but it's a commandment from G-d that you can't marry one? Is that correct?

 NO. You cannot be with a non-Jew either way. Just the degree of punishment and severity differ. If just for once or something (like a prostitute) get whipping, if as a relationship and as marriage the punishment is much worse (I believe its Karet).   

[muman613]

I have no idea what karet is but it sounds bad...However the halacha i recounted in chapter 12 are very clear that the punishment for relations within a marraige with a non jew is lashes which is scriptural. The punishment for relations with a non jew out of marraige is lashes but thats from the rabbis not G-d.unless the information is incomplete? I have yet to meet a rabbi worthy of my reverence so no offense but the rabbinical punishments and prohibitions are uninteresting to me...G-d gave me His commandments and until  Moses is here i don't have any concern for the rabbinical commandments as these are just men .

The Torah commands us to honor the Torah sages, judges and rabbis. The oral law was given at Sinai and is just as binding as the written law. You are practicing a religion which is not Judaism but more like Samaratan and by Jewish law you would seem to fall under the category of denier of Torah. I am not saying this to be mean but you cannot pick and choose what laws to keep, this is the error of reform judaism.

See also : http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/710395/Rabbi_Daniel%20Z._Feldman/The%20Power%20of%20the%20Rabbis%20to%20Override%20Torah%20Law%20(Yesh%20Koach%20B%E2%80%99Y%E2%80%99dei%20Chachamim%20L%E2%80%99Akor%20Davar%20Min%20HaTorah%20B%E2%80%99Shev%20V%E2%80%99Al%20Ta%E2%80%99aseh)

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

I have no idea what karet is but it sounds bad...However the halacha i recounted in chapter 12 are very clear that the punishment for relations within a marraige with a non jew is lashes which is scriptural. The punishment for relations with a non jew out of marraige is lashes but thats from the rabbis not G-d.unless the information is incomplete? I have yet to meet a rabbi worthy of my reverence so no offense but the rabbinical punishments and prohibitions are uninteresting to me...G-d gave me His commandments and until  Moses is here i don't have any concern for the rabbinical commandments as these are just men .*Just looked up karet meaning and found (elsewhere) that  the mishna kerithoth1:1 states the 36 sins punishable by kareth and none of them are relations with a non jew.

 You said you were MARRIED to a goy. Now that is certainly from G-D. We were talking about someone who just had casual $%^ with a non-Jew. For that it is Rabbinic and the person gets lashes. their are even examples where such a person was sometimes even killed- even example in the Torah- for example Zimri with the Moabite princess. Pinchas killed both of them and G-D praised his for it. This was during the time of Moses.

 And about the separate issue of Rabbinic court law- the court was made during the time of Moses himself. It is a commandment from the Torah to listen to the judges (of the Sanhedrin) and to what they established.


 In either case your "marriage" to a goy is by Deorita (Torah or directly G-D's law).

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

No one is telling you to listen to any Rabbi you met. But this was done by the great Sanhedrin which included Prophets and was made by the court of Moses.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

I'm not, not posting any longer because i don't like or believe that this is from the  oral law......i did not know that and asked previously many times if it was from the Talmud.  The reason i won't post again or have regard for what any of you have said is i don't appreciate being called a reform jew or that i'm not practicing judaism. There is a way to speak and a way not to speak to someone and apparantly none of you have mastered the art of gentleness which is apparantly because you're all too full of yourselves which is funny because you're so far beneath me.   You are nothing more than a bunch of arrogant [censored] with the ability to read and recite Torah. You apparantly have mistaken my kindness for weakness which i can assure you it is not and i would never speak that way to anyone i was trying to teach Torah to.  do not address me again.

 I was kind and told you the answers to your questions. Because the answers perhaps do not suit your conscious does not mean you should try to attack me or others. Personally I do not take offense nor care. I was answering your question with the answers that the Torah gives. No need to shoot the messenger(s).

[muman613]

I'm not, not posting any longer because i don't like or believe that this is from the  oral law......i did not know that and asked previously many times if it was from the Talmud.  The reason i won't post again or have regard for what any of you have said is i don't appreciate being called a reform jew or that i'm not practicing judaism. There is a way to speak and a way not to speak to someone and apparantly none of you have mastered the art of gentleness which is apparantly because you're all too full of yourselves which is funny because you're so far beneath me.   You are nothing more than a bunch of arrogant [censored] with the ability to read and recite Torah. You apparantly have mistaken my kindness for weakness which i can assure you it is not and i would never speak that way to anyone i was trying to teach Torah to.  do not address me again.

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder. Your hatred for rabbis has blinded you to what Jewish observance is. You cannot just pick and choose which commandments to keep. There are many commandments and many customs associated with them. If you want to practice Orthodox Judaism you should learn first before making statements like you made (which indicate you have never learned from an authentic Jewish source, rather you found commands that suit your life and only keep those).

The Oral law is the Talmud. The talmud is the recording of the Rabbis views and conversations. It is from these Rabbis which we learn the Halachas. Without the Oral law we would not be able to keep the Torah. For instance you should know that there is a commandment to put a mezuzah on your door. This is a TORAH commandment, but the Torah does not say what a mezuzah should contain or how to put in on the door. The oral law compliments the Written law. Other commandments such as how to observe Shabbat which the Torah mentions many times, but never explains what observing and keeping Shabbat means, are only explained by the Talmud. What does WORK mean? The Melachot (39 categories of forbidden labor) are derived through scriptural exegesis are expounded by the Rabbis of the Talmud. Do you just make up what is convenient to you to keep Shabbat? The Torah, when discussing Shabbat, mentions that the Israelites should not build the Mishkan on Shabbat and thus it is derived that all the labors involved in building the Mishkan are prohibited on Shabbat. Would you, by your own logic, have derived what it means to keep and observe Shabbat? I don't think you would.

You don't study the Talmud because if you did you would know some of these things..

I don't understand why you act so self-important. If you were truly Jewish you would try to learn instead of insisting your version of Judaism is correct. We Jews have keep these commandments for 1000s of years and you expect us to suddenly accept your watered down interpretation? I think you are the rude one who has turned away all those who try to supply you with answers to your questions. But maybe they were not questions to begin with, and you are set in your incorrect ways and attempting to justify your errors.

I wish you well on your journey... Please seek the truth and maybe someday you will really understand what it means to be a religious Jew.

[muman613]

I feel bad that this turned out the way it did. I really had hope that we could work together and learn out the laws according to our sages. But her majesty seems to reject all the Jewish sages and Rabbis and wants to decide if the laws make sense to her, and if not they are discarded. It is good to try to understand why we do commandments but there are some commandments which we will never fully understand. We should try our best to understand why the command was given by Hashem but even if we don't we should keep it because it is what Hashem commanded, either directly or through the power given to the Torah sages. When one rejects the sages he rejects the Torah, as according to Rambam a person who rejects the wisdom of the sages of the Talmud is called a heretic.

I do not take any pleasure in this. Without understanding the importance of those who codified and expounded on the commandments we would not be able to keep the Jewish religion. If everyone interpreted the Torah according to their own understanding we would not have Jewish communities, but a fragmented and divisive people. For thousands of years we have kept the Torah and Talmud and they are the force which keeps the blood of the Jewish people pumping. When Jews reject their heritage they are actively destroying their people.

[muman613]

I am sorry if this sounds blunt, but according to some definitions the denial of the sages is a trait of an apikoros.


http://www.oztorah.com/2007/04/an-apikoros-ask-the-rabbi/

A. It means “unbeliever”. Using this epithet is an insult only if you intend it to be such. But though an apikoros is missing out on the inspiration that comes from being a believer, no-one can be forced to believe, and you cannot argue them into belief.

Homiletically, the word derives from pakar, “to break forth”, and hence it is someone who rebels against traditional religion; an associated word, hefker, means free or abandoned. Historically, the name is from the Greek philosopher Epicurus (341-270 BCE), who believed that with the correct philosophy of life a person could reach “quietude of mind and steadfast faith”. Associated with his name is the view that though the universe is eternal and infinite, nothing is created out of nothing and nothing passes into nothing. The soul is destructible; pleasure is the beginning and end of the good life. The existence of God or the gods is not denied, but God (or the gods) do not control the world or feel concern for man. (See Josephus, Antiquities 10:11:7; cf. Maimonides, Guide for the Perplexed 3:17).

Judaism found this problematical. It preferred seriousness and moral strictness to pleasure and indulgence. It believed not only that God was the Creator but that His Providence continued to rule the creation. It could not accept that God had abandoned His world and left it hefker, ownerless. It developed a firm doctrine of the two worlds – this world and the World to Come. It applied the term apikoros to anyone who rejected these basic Jewish doctrines and warned that the apikoros had no share in the World to Come (Mishnah Sanh. 10:1).

In due course it extended the meaning of the term very widely to anyone who did not show respect to the sages. Me’iri (13th cent.)
defines an apikoros as one who despises a learned person and his learning and thus denies the things he should believe in (commentary to Sanh. 90a).

To Maimonides (Hilchot T’shuvah, chapter 3), an apikoros rejects prophecy and the prophetic status of Moses, and denies that God knows the deeds of human beings. The Shulchan Aruch adds that the apikoros not only lacks belief but transgresses the law on purpose, e.g. by eating forbidden food or wearing sha’atnez, a prohibited mixture of textiles (CH.M. 425:5).

There is a distinction between an apikoros and an am ha’aretz, an ignoramus. An unbeliever who is also an ignoramus is a major problem, because he does not know what it is that he does not believe in. Hence when the Mishnah says that one must know what to answer an apikoros (Avot 2:14), it may be saying that he must not be allowed to remain uninformed.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

@Her Majesty, I can relate to you. I married before I was really religious, I married a Lutheran, which is something that my grandmother is against. My grandmother was a gnostic or a Czech Unitarian, something like that. Which is what lead me to the root of religion, which is Judiasm. So I am A Nochide now, which is very difficult at times and frustrating, beings there are no Jews around me, let alone does anyone know what the heck a Noachide is.

 I hope you don't leave!

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

I think some people here hardened by fighting traitors... and muslims... most men can't handle fighting while being stabbed in the back by their brothers.

Good point LKZ!

[muman613]

her majesty is neither an apikorsis, or a heretic , and least of all an ignoramus . she is a beautiful angel with a heart of gold. forget the muslims and germans and all the other enemies of the jewish people. if they knew how much you hated each other and how cruel you are to each other they would leave you alone and wait for you all to kill each other. i'm not seeing a big difference at this moment between your intrepretation of judaism and the islamic view of islam and what is to be done with anyone who does not believe exactly as they do. this is certainly eye opening. you are your own worst enemies. and your security frankly stinks. it took less than 3 attempts at answering a silly question to gain access to this account. brilliant.

Shalom Her Majesty,

I recognize that you feel that you were not treated properly by us here at JTF. Please believe me that I am truly sorry for your hurt feelings. Sometimes in the pursuit of doing the right thing we sometimes act without thinking of the feelings of another person. I really tried in my first response to you to reach out and understand your circumstances. I still feel that you can be reached by us, if there is truly a Jewish soul residing in your heart.

A major aspect of Jewish belief is that humanity and specifically Jews have a divine mission in this world. I did not wake up to this mission till I was in my late 30s and after much pain in my personal life. In order to accept Hashem we must be able to lower ourselves, becoming more humble. While I know you think we are arrogant for telling you what we think about those who reject the sages of the Talmud, what we say is the truth according to Jewish law. Today we live in a world without the Temple and thus we cannot fully execute Jewish law, but we can learn the spiritual guidance which these laws intend to teach us. This is what we do when we study Torah, attempt to learn the messages which Hashem provided to us through the teachings of the Torah.

If you accept that the Torah was divinely given to the Jewish people and it is the blueprint for all of creation then you can accept that all wisdom should be able to be derived from the Torah, and the questions about observance can be deduced by the sages. I do not know everything and I spend over 2 hours a day constantly learning new Torah lessons. This knowledge is applicable to our lives, and it is this knowledge which I believe is the key to winning the battle against the evil in the world.

If you are honest in your desire to grow as a Jewish person I will be glad to continue working with you, to guide you to sources and resources which can assist you. If you just seek to continue seeing us in an ugly light with bad intentions for you then I cannot tell you what to do, you are entitled to your opinion.

Nobody here takes pleasure (at least not myself) in suggesting someone is engaging in aveirah (prohibited actions/sins). I admit that I have done many things which are wrong by the Torah, but the Torah and the Jewish faith put a lot of belief in the concept of Teshuva/Return/Repentance. I hope that we can work around our differences and keep you around JTF...

PS: If  you are 'Her Majesty' why don't you know your password? Are you saying you are really a troll? I sure hope you are just making a joke..

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

I hate to say this, but I think it might be rosenberg. Is that what his name was?

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

So, You're spying on your wife, that is really sad!

[muman613]

after 2 attempts i was refused registration only intending to message my wife privately to let her know i was aware of what had been said to her here after this web address  kept coming up on her computer whenever i use it. i wanted to see  if she was still coming here and  would discuss it together.  it was then i gained access to her account by guessing  her security answer and seeing on her profile she was not active any longer. she will not be "working with you" you must be out of your [censored] mind to think that i would allow that. if i remember correctly muman you called her an ignoramus for gods sake what is wrong with you people.? she will be  forbidden to have any internet time on this website and most certainly access to this account any longer as i have changed all the information.  i don't know who rosenberg is but paranoia seems to be the order of the day around here. i have deleted her posts and will delete these last 2  after i see if she still spends time studying on this website which no decent person should be . for whatever good can be gained from any positive information here it is not worth the corruption of the indecency.

So basically you are spying on  your wife... Both of you seem to be made for each other so be our guests and leave. If you have no desire to learn and assume you will influence others with your often off-the-mark views then there will be no good in continuing.