Even Jewish Criminals Deserve Kosher Food

[muman613]

Here is a story with a good ending. I think it is unfair to imprison Jews without offering them the option of Kosher meals. Here is a case where a Jewish man, accused of assisting in murder, was denied Kosher food. He appealed to the government which then found that there is a law requiring all people institutionalized to be afforded food according to their religious convictions. In the end this guy won the decision and is currently eating Kosher food.


http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/163785#.UOM-eGL1T0E

Court Rules: Texas Jewish Inmate Should Be Served Kosher Food

A Jewish man imprisoned for murder in Texas should be served kosher meals, a federal appeals court ruled.
Rachel Hirshfeld

A Jewish man imprisoned for murder in Texas should be served kosher meals, a federal appeals court ruled.

Max Moussazadeh, 35, who is serving a 75-year sentence for a 1993 murder, has a sincere religious belief as an Orthodox Jew in keeping a kosher diet, the U.S. 5th Circuit Court of Appeals in New Orleans ruled, reversing a lower court's judgment.

Texas infringed upon his beliefs by denying him free kosher meals, according to court records filed on Dec. 21.

Moussazadeh allegedly served as a lookout while his three co-defendants shot a man to death during a Houston robbery.

He is serving time in the Stiles Unit in Beaumont, which does not provide free kosher meals, his attorneys said, The Houston Chronicle reported.

In 2005, Moussazadeh sued after the state denied his request for a kosher meal plan to accommodate his religious beliefs.

However, the prison system argued that his commitment to a kosher diet was insincere, as he had reportedly purchased food in the past without kosher supervision. 

His case centers around the 2000 Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act, which forbids the government from restricting religious rights of an institutionalized person.

"I feel that I am going against my beliefs and that I will be punished by God for not practicing my religion correctly," he wrote in the 2005 complaint, as quoted by The Chronicle.

Luke Goodrich, deputy general counsel for the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, which assisted in Moussazadeh’s legal representation described the decision as a “great victory” for human rights and religious liberty, The Daily Mail reported.

“Even prisoners retain their human rights, and the state cannot sacrifice those rights on the altar of bureaucratic convenience,” Goodrich said.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Yes but he should have gotten the chair.

[muman613]

Yes but he should have gotten the chair.

Why do you say this? He did not actually kill the people, he was a driver on lookout during a robbery...

[Sveta]

I would be very weary of a Jewish person being tried and executed by a secular gentile court, especially because he did not actually kill anyone. He was an accomplice by being a "look out". In a perfect world, we would have a Jewish court who would be the one to try him.

But back to the story. I am glad he is getting kosher meals. It's none of this backward prison's business if he was sincere or not. He is Jewish and should get kosher meals period. Their argument is petty, he was insincere because he bought non-kosher food? Well if they were withholding kosher food from him what was he supposed to do? Starve to death?

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Nobody forced him to be a getaway driver for murderers.

[muman613]

Nobody forced him to be a getaway driver for murderers.

According to Jewish law he is not guilty of murder. But I think you would make a good hanging judge...

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Thank you.   

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

I would be very weary of a Jewish person being tried and executed by a secular gentile court, especially because he did not actually kill anyone. He was an accomplice by being a "look out". In a perfect world, we would have a Jewish court who would be the one to try him.

 It is not soo simple. It is a big discussion especially in cases where the gentile court is more strict (the punishment) then what the Torah prescribes. BUT on the other hand their are many Rabbis and opinions that say that one needs to report the criminals even to gentile courts because 1) they (gentiles) also have the Mitzvah to establish courts of justice 2) when they are following justice and the courts are run fairly and in the pursuit of justice and the Jewish criminal is tried just like a gentile criminal then it is less of a problem then when its a gentile mockery court that tries to make excuses to put Jews in prison or death (as happened in the past). Also 3) Jewish criminals sometimes need to be weeded out from the Jewish people and anyone being lenient with them in an indirect way encourages such behavior and makes even more victims by indirectly supporting them. Merciless people do not deserve mercy.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

And a murderer gets a lesser sentence than Jonathan Pollard!

[Sveta]

You make a great point Tag. I was left thinking with the Mitvah for Gentiles to establish law systems and court.

I am divided because is it not said in Judaism that it is better to not execute someone if there is any doubt rather than to kill an innocent person? How many times do US courts convict people to die even though there are doubts? I know that a Jew is required to give testimony against a guilty person. But a Jew is also required to speak up to save an innocent suspected person. Would the secular investigators or court be able to admit this person as a witness? So many questions arise from it that it is no doubt that this would be a big discussion.

[muman613]

Most sources I am aware of say that a Jew is not to report on a Jew to a non-Jewish court. I will try to elaborate on this later this evening as I am busy at the moment. I believe we curse an informer as a part of the Amidah prayer... It is a Jew informing on a Jew which brings about the destruction of the Holy Temple.

[muman613]

Some of these issues are discussed on this page:

http://www.aish.com/jl/i/mn/48932892.html

An informer who denounces a fellow Jew to the government to be killed, imprisoned, or even fined is likened to an assailant, since being arrested can be a dangerous and traumatic experience. It is in recognition of this danger that the prophet lamented, "Your sons have fainted, they lie at the head of every street, as an antelope trapped in a net" (Isaiah 51:20). Therefore, one who is preparing to denounce another is considered an assailant, and may be killed as such as soon as his intention is know.

But it is also true:

A criminal whose activities endanger the community is considered an assailant, and after being duly warned, may be denounced to the authorities. If he accepts the warning, however, he cannot be denounced for his previous actions. This is true of anybody who endangers others, even without intent.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Most sources I am aware of say that a Jew is not to report on a Jew to a non-Jewish court. I will try to elaborate on this later this evening as I am busy at the moment. I believe we curse an informer as a part of the Amidah prayer... It is a Jew informing on a Jew which brings about the destruction of the Holy Temple.

 Many others disagree. Their are differences between something small like a Jew and another Jew having a personal matter that they can (and should) settle in private Jewish court (which by the way has in the U.S. legal backing and their decisions are enforced if the parties sign beforehand and agree to the decisions taken by the Jewish court. Examples of such cases can and do include if for example their is a dispute in a business. 2 Jews arguing should take their case to a Beit Din. If one refuses to go then the other should ask his Rav in which case he can and will then take the other to gentile courts (by reporting to police or authorities) in the case where the second party does not comply to go to Jewish court (Beit Din).

 Their are other instances where a Jew must go to the gentile authorities (law of the land) and those cases include serious criminals that endanger and bring harm to others. For example sex abusers. These are scumm that need to be weeded out from the midst of any community (Jew or gentile) and not reporting such people only encourages some sick people to pray on the innocent.

[muman613]

 Their are other instances where a Jew must go to the gentile authorities (law of the land) and those cases include serious criminals that endanger and bring harm to others. For example sex abusers. These are scumm that need to be weeded out from the midst of any community (Jew or gentile) and not reporting such people only encourages some sick people to pray on the innocent.

I did not disagree about turning in a person who is a danger to himself and his community. Indeed this is an example which the link I posted discussed. But the main thing I was pointing out in this post is that a Jew is still a Jew even when he is in prison, and requires Kosher food.

I believe our great Rabbi Kahane even made this an issue...

[JTFenthusiast]

It is not soo simple. It is a big discussion especially in cases where the gentile court is more strict (the punishment) then what the Torah prescribes. BUT on the other hand their are many Rabbis and opinions that say that one needs to report the criminals even to gentile courts because 1) they (gentiles) also have the Mitzvah to establish courts of justice 2) when they are following justice and the courts are run fairly and in the pursuit of justice and the Jewish criminal is tried just like a gentile criminal then it is less of a problem then when its a gentile mockery court that tries to make excuses to put Jews in prison or death (as happened in the past). Also 3) Jewish criminals sometimes need to be weeded out from the Jewish people and anyone being lenient with them in an indirect way encourages such behavior and makes even more victims by indirectly supporting them. Merciless people do not deserve mercy.

Tag,

I completely agree with you.  I have no idea why Jews living anywhere but Israel, would think they or anyone else living in this country can pick their judges.  You do a crime, you pay the time.  Since this man did engage in an act which resulted in someone's death, he gets the time.  I think Life is a long time AND he would have been like 15 years old at the time.  His dietary issues are side issues.  I believe that the prison was right about his eating non-kosher food.  I think they have to provide him kosher food, but to say there are likely no shenanigans going on here, is, I think, naive

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

   The food and the crime are different issues. Once someone is in prison or pays some fees the job of the prison is not to punish and as such their is absolutely no reason to support him not getting kosher food (as the law of the land stipulates).


  Also not in all cases does one need to report and their is an argument *if in cases where the punishment is beyond the punishment stipulated in the Torah for such crime. If one can get the guilty party to pay for his crime without having to report it. For example if someone stole $100 and his punishment (in Jewish law) would be to pay double ($200) as opposed to him being sent to prison for the $100 that he stole. In any event ask a competent Orthodox Rabbi in each case.

[angryChineseKahanist]

why are we defending criminals?
he deserves an arab inmate.

[Lisa]

I have no sympathy for criminals, Jewish or otherwise.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Chaim would find this guy a rope and a tree.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

HE WAS 15 YEARS OLD!!!!  Did he know they were going to to kill the man? It's pretty easy to influence somebody at that age!

Normal teenagers do not take part in robbery and murder conspiracies.

[muman613]

It is amazing how some people twist and turn the original post into something it is not.


NOBODY IS DEFENDING WHAT HE DID! What I am applauding is the victory which assures Jews who are in prison will get kosher food.


Lest we all forget that Chaim Ben Pesach did time in prison, and he was afforded kosher food after protesting.

[muman613]

why are we defending criminals?
he deserves an arab inmate.

Please explain who is defending criminals here?

[Binyamin Yisrael]

In Judaism, you need 2 witnesses with the exact same testimony for capital cases. If it's found out that the witnesses lied, they themselves are liable for the death penalty. It's said that a Bet Din that executed many people is a bloody court. It was very rare. For example, no homosexuals have ever been put to death for violating Leviticus 20:13.

[muman613]

A list of legal findings concerning a Jewish prisoners right to a kosher meal is listed on the site below:

http://www.jlaw.com/Summary/kashrut-prisons.html

See also :

http://blogs.jta.org/thearchiveblog/article/2011/06/03/3088002/timeline-kosher-food-fights-for-jewish-prisoners

August 1975: Federal Judge Jack B. Weinstein of Brooklyn rules for a second time that Jewish inmates in federal prisons, specifically Jewish Defense League founder Rabbi Meir Kahane, have a constitutional right to kosher food. 

See also :

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/6660#.UOOQzmKRz0E

Op-Ed: A Monument for Rabbi Kahane

Whether in Israeli jails - where he was incarcerated for speaking Jewish truth - or in American penal institutions - where he fought for and, with G-d's help, secured the rights of Jewish prisoners s to have kosher food and a Torah scroll (which he utilized to teach classes) - Rabbi Kahane, of blessed memory, wore the mantle of Judaism passed down by generations of legendary rabbis, with great pride and dignity. His greatest joy was planting the seeds of Torah knowledge in the minds of young Jews who had been denied their true Jewish identity.

Among these countless memories, one particular incident stands out vividly in my recollection.

While in the US, Rabbi Kahane was once sent to prison for activities on behalf of Soviet Jewry. Although he was permitted to leave the so-called half-way house for a few hours each day to eat and pray (since at that juncture the authorities were not willing to provide him with kosher food), Rabbi Kahane generally used the brief time to speak. Having made plans to visit him, I received a call from relatives who were awed at the prospect of meeting the man whose books they so eagerly read. They asked to accompany me to hear him address students at a Brooklyn Yeshiva.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

In Judaism, you need 2 witnesses with the exact same testimony for capital cases. If it's found out that the witnesses lied, they themselves are liable for the death penalty. It's said that a Bet Din that executed many people is a bloody court. It was very rare. For example, no homosexuals have ever been put to death for violating Leviticus 20:13.

 Their are 2 sides of justice (or justice systems). 1 is the Rabbinic which is very limited and like you said if once in 7 or 70 years they had the reputation as "bloody". The requirements and conditions were extremely rare to put someone to death for (prior warnings, and manyyy conditions). Then their is the Kingship (or governmental) who is somewhat less limited for example 1 witness can be enough. I dont know the whole system and how it works but I know enough to know their are 2 sides 1 the Rabbinic and 2 the Kingship and that the kingship is responsible for state security both from the outside and in as well.  The Rabbinic at least from my impression (I could be wrong) was mainly (but not limited to) teach the public the proper ways.
 Perhaps someone can ask Chaim and he will answer on the show.