"I am afraid that women appreciate cruelty, downright cruelty

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

more than anything else. They have wonderfully primitive instincts. We have emancipated them, but they remain slaves looking for their masters all the same. They love being dominated" - Oscar Wilde

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Well, they certainly appear to love butchering their unborn children. That's why they elected BHO twice.

[בַּחַמַל]

I appreciate the anti-misandric effort, but is this really the place for these kinds of posts?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Sorry to hear you are having some girl problems, Ron.   Hashem should help you find the one.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Sorry to hear you are having some girl problems, Ron.   Hashem should help you find the one.

I think that there is a real problem of women being seduced by leftism and every evil, selfish, hedonistic philosophy on the planet in our society.

[Rubystars]

Women who want to get married generally want a provider and protector and in return want to make that person's life pleasant. That is not the same as wanting someone to be a slave master to her. Many women feel more natural in a supporting role and in letting their husband take the lead. This is not meaning that he's going to force his will on her and treat her like she's not an adult. This is a voluntary choice that many women make to let him be the leader but she never gives up her God-given human rights that all human beings have.

In society as a whole, some women are meant to be leaders. It depends on an individual's personality. I think we should be caring more about what's between someone's ears and what's in their heart than what's between someone's legs when it comes to whether we consider them for a leadership position in society or not such as for presidential positions, etc.

[muman613]

Wasn't Oscar Wild gay? He had homosexual relations...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Wilde#Trials

Under the Libel Act 1843, Queensberry could avoid conviction for libel only by demonstrating that his accusation was in fact true, and furthermore that there was some "public benefit" to having made the accusation openly. Queensberry's lawyers thus hired private detectives to find evidence of Wilde's homosexual liaisons to prove the fact of the accusation. They decided on a strategy of portraying Wilde as a depraved older man who habitually enticed naive youths into a life of vicious homosexuality in order to demonstrate that there was some public interest in making the accusation openly, ostensibly to warn off other youths who might otherwise have become entrapped by Wilde.

The libel trial became a cause célèbre as salacious details of Wilde's private life with Taylor and Douglas began to appear in the press. A team of private detectives had directed Queensberry's lawyers, led by Edward Carson QC, to the world of the Victorian underground. Wilde's association with blackmailers and male prostitutes, cross-dressers and homosexual brothels was recorded, and various persons involved were interviewed, some being coerced to appear as witnesses since they too were accomplices to the crimes of which Wilde was accused.[114]

[Rubystars]

Sorry to hear you are having some girl problems, Ron.   Hashem should help you find the one.

God help her.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Women who want to get married generally want a provider and protector and in return want to make that person's life pleasant. That is not the same as wanting someone to be a slave master to her. Many women feel more natural in a supporting role and in letting their husband take the lead. This is not meaning that he's going to force his will on her and treat her like she's not an adult. This is a voluntary choice that many women make to let him be the leader but she never gives up her God-given human rights that all human beings have.

In society as a whole, some women are meant to be leaders. It depends on an individual's personality. I think we should be caring more about what's between someone's ears and what's in their heart than what's between someone's legs when it comes to whether we consider them for a leadership position in society or not such as for presidential positions, etc.

Women have a drive to seek out a "bad boy", which whether they consciously think it or not means an alpha male. There is good biological reason for this, but many women are so stupid that they will settle for any POS that acts all tough and "hardcore" and macho and as a result they end up with scum of the earth (time and time again). This is the female equivalent of men who only go for big boobs, blond hair, tiny waists, etc. It's shallow and it's idiotic.

[muman613]

Women have a drive to seek out a "bad boy", which whether they consciously think it or not means an alpha male. There is good biological reason for this, but many women are so stupid that they will settle for any POS that acts all tough and "hardcore" and macho and as a result they end up with scum of the earth (time and time again). This is the female equivalent of men who only go for big boobs, blond hair, tiny waists, etc. It's shallow and it's idiotic.

I believe you are making sweeping generalizations because there are many women, especially religious Jewish women, who are seeking a reliable soul-mate and do not seek any kind of 'bad boy'. Although in some cultures that may be the case. I did know an Irish girl who had a fascination with gangster mexicans...

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I didn't say that every woman wants a dirtbag. I said every woman wants an alpha male or at least a strong, bold, accomplished guy. An alpha male might be a successful firefighter or the CEO of a company; in fact, that's what a smart woman wants. Stupid women want dirtbags.

[Rubystars]

Women have a drive to seek out a "bad boy", which whether they consciously think it or not means an alpha male. There is good biological reason for this, but many women are so stupid that they will settle for any POS that acts all tough and "hardcore" and macho and as a result they end up with scum of the earth (time and time again). This is the female equivalent of men who only go for big boobs, blond hair, tiny waists, etc. It's shallow and it's idiotic.

In both cases I think it depends on the emotional maturity of the person involved. The alpha male is generally going to be the better protector/provider. A woman since she is the one to carry the child can't always be the one to provide her own food and other needs since hard physical labor during pregnancy is dangerous to both mother and child. She's also physically weaker and has historically benefited from being protected from other males by her husband. So yes there is a biological drive to seek out a dominant male. However as you pointed out an immature woman will seek any dominant male while someone with more wisdom will choose someone who will not be cruel to her but will respect her.

A man with very little wisdom might go for the good looking girl and not evaluate whether she will be a good helper when he needs one, a good mother, a good companion, etc.

I think this is one reason why there's so much divorce. People are following pure animal instinct and not allowing the wisdom that God gave them to inform their decisions.

[Zelhar]

Didn't Oscar Wilde play for the other team, what did he know of women anyway. ?!

[cjd]

Didn't Oscar Wilde play for the other team, what did he know of women anyway. ?!

Who know's  The fact that he was on the so called " other team" might have allowed him to take a more objective approach on the issue 

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I believe you are making sweeping generalizations because there are many women, especially religious Jewish women, who are seeking a reliable soul-mate and do not seek any kind of 'bad boy'. Although in some cultures that may be the case. 

Although overall values are different for most religious Jewish women, and more important religious, cultural, sociological factors will be weighed in the type of for-marriage dating they typically do, much more than these would consciously be weighed in a secular setting, I think the same laws of attraction will still apply and the most righteous women will still be attracted to alpha male type qualities.  Maybe they will only find the positive manifestations of those qualities appealing rather than the douchey ones due to their societal influences and cultural upbringing.  But they still are women attracted to men.

I did know an Irish girl who had a fascination with gangster mexicans...

Lol well they are quite fascinating aren't they?  The police also find them fascinating.

[AsheDina]

Many women want cruelty. My sister is a moron that married a real b*stard who is a white supremacist. Makes me mother sick everyday.

[Lisa]

Cheer up Ron.  You're still very young. 

I think you need to focus on getting a good education and a good job. 

[Lisa]

But let me add one more thing. 

Women can be *very* cruel.  With men, they either like someone, or they don't.  You generally know where you stand with them.  But women's cruelty is much more cunning than that of men. 

[Every Jew AK47]

I, myself am sick of Western women.  Ron, is young, I am older , in my 30s , and I more or less agree with him.

It just seems that in this day and age women tend to base a man on how acceptable he is to their friends and their own self-image.  A man is just a piece of meat with a wallet.  I find it very discouraging seeing the number of women on dating sites who say they cannot ever date a guy who they won't look good next to in their heels or that don't have their own home and a college degree.  Since, when was love, passion and romance so superficial?   

There are men who are pure sexmongers, but just as well, there are women who are pure gold-diggers and sexmongers too.  I just find women can be much more cruel, arrogant and childish than men.  I also think this is their personal defense mechanism and way of bolstering their own low self-image.  Whereas men may try to act macho or cocky to boost their low self-image.   

I don't know how to properly assess this problem.  It really saddens me about most Jewish ladies in USA though.  Most of them refuse to marry a guy in his 30s if he doesn't have a large bank account.  I probably will never marry here and I don't want to end up with a shiksa.  My Rabbi told me if I marry a shiksa I can never return to the synagogue, even if she converts to Judaism.  How's that for pressure?  Considering, my Orthodox synagogue is like 90% male and all the women are married or under 18, it doesn't really make life that easy for me.    He suggested I go on JDate... I've been on JDate and those superficial, arrogant, self-righteous feminazi women on that site, make me sick.  The Rabbi said this because he didn't have any feasible answer for me.

[Lisa]

Every Jew a 44, why don't you put up a profile on some Jewish dating sites?  Or perhaps you can find an in person match maker? 

Granted, I'm not one to talk being that I'm older than you and single.  But perhaps it's worth a shot.  You strike me as a very intelligent and proud Jew.  Your posts here are all excellent. 

[muman613]

It seems to me that two things are being discussed and confused here. One issue people are discussing is 'Alpha male' which is a decription of a male who is a leader. The other is 'cruelty' which in my opinion implies sadism and causing others pain. There is no connection between alpha male and cruelty. That is where the confusion is being introduced.

I believe a man can be an alpha male and not be cruel. An alpha male is one who can lead others through what is called power or money or charisma. One does not need to exhibit 'cruelty' in order to wield such power.

[Sveta]

EveryJew, ever tried Orthodate?

It's sad really. Women should value a Torah scholar over a secular wealthy fool ignorant of Torah knowledge. Money surely helps but when finding a soulmate, one should look at the person's spiritual potential rather than materialistic ambition. It's angering.

I would suggest to be careful in all Jewish dating sites- or you might end up with a shiksa. Some times are full of non-Jews who think they're Jewish. Like children of conservative and reform "conversions". So even there, it's important to still be vigilant.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

It seems to me that two things are being discussed and confused here. One issue people are discussing is 'Alpha male' which is a decription of a male who is a leader. The other is 'cruelty' which in my opinion implies sadism and causing others pain. There is no connection between alpha male and cruelty. That is where the confusion is being introduced.

I believe a man can be an alpha male and not be cruel. An alpha male is one who can lead others through what is called power or money or charisma. One does not need to exhibit 'cruelty' in order to wield such power.

All women want an alpha male of some kind. Stupid women want a cruel alpha male and value cruelty.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I, myself am sick of Western women.  Ron, is young, I am older , in my 30s , and I more or less agree with him.

It just seems that in this day and age women tend to base a man on how acceptable he is to their friends and their own self-image.  A man is just a piece of meat with a wallet.  I find it very discouraging seeing the number of women on dating sites who say they cannot ever date a guy who they won't look good next to in their heels or that don't have their own home and a college degree.  Since, when was love, passion and romance so superficial?   

There are men who are pure sexmongers, but just as well, there are women who are pure gold-diggers and sexmongers too.  I just find women can be much more cruel, arrogant and childish than men.  I also think this is their personal defense mechanism and way of bolstering their own low self-image.  Whereas men may try to act macho or cocky to boost their low self-image.   

I don't know how to properly assess this problem.  It really saddens me about most Jewish ladies in USA though.  Most of them refuse to marry a guy in his 30s if he doesn't have a large bank account.  I probably will never marry here and I don't want to end up with a shiksa.  My Rabbi told me if I marry a shiksa I can never return to the synagogue, even if she converts to Judaism.  How's that for pressure?  Considering, my Orthodox synagogue is like 90% male and all the women are married or under 18, it doesn't really make life that easy for me.    He suggested I go on JDate... I've been on JDate and those superficial, arrogant, self-righteous feminazi women on that site, make me sick.  The Rabbi said this because he didn't have any feasible answer for me.

I'm sorry but if your Orthodox rabbi is suggesting you to go on jdate, he is very out of touch with the dating scene and giving you improper advice.    Saw you at sinai and frumster are 2 sites that are at least utilized by orthodox Jews and real shadchanim etc.   About 1000 times better than the quality of girl you are going to find on jdate but of course its still online dating.

Jdate is not an appropriate place for a religious guy or girl.

You need to try some blind date setups with religious girls, they have different values (in general, there are exceptions.  Furthermore, there are tons of late 20's and 30's religious girls who are very eager to get married but all the guys want 20 and younger!   So I think you should expand your horizons and keep trying, those girls are out there.

[בַּחַמַל]

The problem is not women, it's men.  Allow me to elaborate:

Today's 18 year old typically seeks the antisocial male for thrills.

When she reaches 30 or so years, her maternal instincts kick in.  Now is when she is looking for the "geek" or "nerd" type to provide her with a stable environment to rear offspring.  If men were smart, they would overwhelmingly reject such females, just as one would reject a car with large mileage.  There are several reasons for this:

1)  She has probably been with multiple partners at this point and is no longer a virgin
2)  By age 50, at least 80 percent of women will have been infected with genital HPV infection
3)  A woman's overall value as she ages decreases, while a male's value increases as he is able to gather more resources.  Men age physically much better than women appearance-wise, and retain a good level of fertility significantly longer.

Unfortunately, men have not responded to feminism adequately.  Chivalry itself is not an outdated concept, but it is counterproductive to men in the face of aggresive feminism.  If a woman has delayed marriage, or is divorced with kids, she should be avoided.  What I like tot ell these women is that I don't want to date them, I want to date their daughter.  I'm sorry to all the spinsters here in the JTF forum, nothing against you personally, just stating the facts.

Rubystars:
What you have stated is in effect considered hypergamy.  It is animal nature to seek the "alpha-male".  In several ruminating species, the does seek out the alpha buck and he protects them in what is called a harem.  When human females behave like this, it is called hypergamy.

The question is how have the Jewish authorities adapted to Western Feminism...  Not very well.  Someone above posted that his Rabbi refered him to JDate...  There's a double standard here.  Many Rabbis demand the old-style marriage for their own children, but refer members of their congregation to the "new" way of doing things (feminist dating).  Why do they do this?  It's very simple.  There's a limited pool of Frum Jewish girls who most likely will not cause too many problems in the duration of their marriage.  The shadchanim - or matchmakers - are in effect acting as gatekeepers to this select pool of girls.

The joke will be on them in the future, when even this 'select' pool becomes too westernized for traditional Jewish marriage.  In the end, the only viable females will exist in small communities in Israel like Me'Ah She'arim or Bnei Brak.

If you want a sure-bet girl in America who will make a fantastic wife, you're better off with a girl from Naturei Karta than an average JAP.  She might be brainwashed, but she's as close to a traditional Jewish girl from old Europe as you're going to get.