Author Topic: Appendix Evolved Over 30 Times, May Perform Useful Function, Researchers Say  (Read 4475 times)

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Offline Rubystars

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Palma the order in which layers were deposited and the time it takes for sediments to form, as well as the chemical composition of the rocks themselves, can be used to date rock layers as well. There's a layer of iridium that was layed down world wide about 65 million years ago for example and this band is consistent from place to place.

Also we can look at the rate of sedimentation today and extrapolate how long it would have taken a particular layer of sediment layed down to form. The ones on the bottom are the oldest and the ones on the top are the youngest.

All this can be figured out with zero fossils.

Another thing to keep in mind is that your argument only works one way. It's possible to find older species in newer rock if they were thought to be extinct but really weren't. However it's not possible to find newer species in older rock layers. You will never find, for example, a reptile in the precambrian strata. They didn't exist until the Carboniferous.

Offline Palmachstriker

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I find it amusing that people are still trying to discredit Darwin who had the most rudimentary idea of how evolution worked. That field of study was literally in its infancy at the time. Of course you're going to be able to find flaws with it. Young earth creationists seem to think that if they can find a flaw in Darwin's ideas that somehow that discredits the whole idea.

I try not to promote evolution because of the way some people take it to hurt their faith or to take the philosophy that it means we're not different from other animals. A lot of people think that accepting evolution makes you an atheist. One of the most frustrating things in dealing with other human beings is that you can say one thing but people will add several meanings to what you say that you never actually said.

For example if I were to say that I accept the theory of evolution as valid science, people have a tendency to jump to all sorts of unfounded conclusions about me and what I think and believe. It's extremely frustrating and I get tired of spending half the conversation trying to defend myself or dispel these wrong assumptions.

Another problem I run into is that people scream "there is no evidence!" and then they will not accept any evidence shown at all. No matter how thorough, compelling, or strong the evidence is, they continue to scream that there's no evidence because they have decided beforehand that there can not be any evidence.

One of those unfounded assumptions comes into play and that's that, if they accept evolution, they automatically have to abandon the Bible. I don't agree with that at all. However, this false belief causes a lot of emotional resistance to the idea that gets in the way of a clear-headed and unbiased evaluation of evidence.

Until people can get over that and be willing to accept what the evidence leads them to rather than coming to conclusions beforehand, then any argument is pretty much futile.

"Some species considered by the Evolutionists as long extinct and therefore used to 'date the strata in which they are found, are still existing today.  The coelacanth fish was supposed by the Evolutionists to have disappeared with the dinosaur 'sixty million' years ago; and coelacanth fossils found in rock beds were used as conclusive evidence that the beds are sixty million years old.  But recently it was learned, to the consternation of the savants, that this fish was very much alive, and could be found in abundance off the coast of Madagascar, where the natives had been fishing for it all their lives.  The experts are still puzzling over the 'colossal riddle' of how the coelacanth survived 'so long.'  So, during all the decades in which the savants had been classifying this fish with the dinosaur and 'identifying' by it the age of rocks, the natives had been catching it and using its hard scales to roughen-up punctured bicycle tubes for patching.  Who was more educated:  the Madagascar native, who did not know of Evolution, or the Evolutionists who had believed that this fish 'had been the direct ancestor of Man'?  It reminds me of the camel bones discovered in a midwestern state of the United States, and the scientific theories which were built on them; until an old metal tag was found nearby with the inscription 'U.S. Army.'  Then it was finally revealed that the camels were imported by the War Department during the Civil War.  Are these not isolated exceptions?  No.  Many of the supposedly long-extinct species are commonly found today.  They are identical with the fossil species in everything but the most minor variations; which variations are no more significant than the variations found in the same species in different localities.  But the evolutionary geologists prefer to make the most out of these variations, for they wish to classify the fossils as extinct and prehistoric species, in order to bolster up their theory of the 'age' of the rocks....A gigantic hoax underlies this whole system, which has entirely distorted the subject of geology.  The Evolutionists claim the development of higher or more complex organisms from the lower or more simple organisms.  (In this they contradict themselves hopelessly, for they at the same time claim that the huge and superdeveloped animals like the dinosaur lived only in the most 'distant' ages.)  One of the chief bulwarks of their theory has always been the classification of the rock strata.  Thus, they claimed to find the simple or 'early' forms of life in the 'early' strata, and the complex or 'recent' forms of life in the 'recent' strata.  But in this lies their fraud:  there are no characteristics by which to identify or 'date' the strata, except the fossils.  When they have fossils which they find convenient to their system to classify as 'early', they thereupon use the fossils to identify the age of the strata containing these fossils.  But, thereafter, any fossils which will be found in this stratum are 'proved' to be 'early' by the fact that they are found in the 'early stratum.'  This plain deception is the main foundation of evolutionary geology.  Many of the fossils classified as 'early' are not even extinct; and are to be found, with slight local variations, alive today.  The fossils are not found in a uniformly 'ascending' system of layers, as the uninitiated layman is led to believe, with simple forms of life at the bottom (including the huge animals, although how they fit into the 'old' beds instead of the 'recent' beds I am at a loss to know) and the complex forms in the upper layers.  For the 'early' fossils are found also in the topmost beds, and 'recent' fossils are also found in the lower beds.  Also note that the geologists depict the earth's crust as an orderly, uniform system of beds lying on top of each other like a layer cake one hundred miles deep.  But the truth is very far from this.  Even according to their 'classification' methods, such a system of successive strata is found nowhere in the world except in their textbooks and their imagination.  The deepest system of layers on earth is no more than three miles in depth, and in most places only a mere fraction of this depth exists.  What these theorists have done, is this:  The strata found in various localities are classified as being of various ages; then they add up all the strata of the world's crust to a hundred-mile deep system representing an enormous total of time.  The plain truth is that these strata of the various localities are all shallow, and all are more or less contemporaneous.  Then the evidence of the rocks is of no help to Evolution; on the contrary, the fact that some beds contain both simple and complex forms of life is evidence against their theory.  They advance another argument, which is really a reproach to common sense.  This is called:  the ascending order of the species.  The fact that the various species can be arranged in a certain order of ascending complexity is no more meaningful than the fact that a silver dollar, a half dollar, a quarter and a dime can be arranged in ascending order.  We do not therefore arrive at the conclusion that the dime was minted earlier and the dollar was minted last; and surely no one concludes therefrom that the dollar 'developed' or evolved from the dime."  ---Rabbi Avigdor Miller, Rejoice O Youth!, pp. 27-28

Offline Palmachstriker

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Palma the order in which layers were deposited and the time it takes for sediments to form, as well as the chemical composition of the rocks themselves, can be used to date rock layers as well. There's a layer of iridium that was layed down world wide about 65 million years ago for example and this band is consistent from place to place.

Also we can look at the rate of sedimentation today and extrapolate how long it would have taken a particular layer of sediment layed down to form. The ones on the bottom are the oldest and the ones on the top are the youngest.

All this can be figured out with zero fossils.

Another thing to keep in mind is that your argument only works one way. It's possible to find older species in newer rock if they were thought to be extinct but really weren't. However it's not possible to find newer species in older rock layers. You will never find, for example, a reptile in the precambrian strata. They didn't exist until the Carboniferous.

"They [the Evolutionists] bring forward another proof...That is the proof from 'vestigial' organs.  You may laugh at all their 'proofs.'  Our forefather was named Yitzchok, 'he shall laugh,' in the future tense.  The idolaters ridiculed us because we did not worship idols, and the theorists ridicule us because we do not agree that Man is a cousin of the chimpanzee; but we are t he ones who are entitled to laugh.  And laugh we do, at all their vain caprices.  Because they found certain organs in the body whose purpose they did not know, they came to the 'conclusion' that these organs had no purpose.  They then took their next step into darkness by claiming that these organs are vestiges of some former state of existence in previous generations.  But such evidence is only proof of ignorance.  The pituitary gland, before its extremely vital function was discovered, was included by the Evolutionists among the 'vestigial' organs.  The same happened in the case of some of the other endocrine glands.  As time will increase men's knowledge, this 'vestigial' foolishness will melt away into oblivion.  And...their argument from what they call the 'recapitulation' in the embryo?  Again, ignorance is made into 'science.'  Every process in the embryo is necessary, and not for the fanciful 'review of Evolution' which these men say.  The drawings depicting the various embryos in the schoolbooks are intentionally falsified, and their purpose is to deceive the reader into the impression that the embryo of man is identical with animal embryos.  The human embryo does not possess a 'tail,' or 'gills,' or even 'gill-slits' (these are mere folds), or a 'hairy stage.'  These are but irresponsible and dishonest statements.  The development does not even superficially follow the lines of the Evolution theory, for the stages of the embryo follow in the wrong order to mimic Evolution.  These juvenile arguments are but desperate attempts to justify their theory.  The truth, then is that Evolution is a religion; and its adherents defend it at all costs.  And it is a religion which requires the most stubborn faith.  When the structure of their theory, as preached by Darwin, fell apart and was abandoned, they bolstered it with the newer theory of sudden mutation, which is equally fanciful, and is patched together by far-fetched explanations which demand excessive credulity from the devotees of the theory.  The true reason why they are so persistent is that they refuse to admit Creation by a Creator.  Therefore, long after Evolution shall have died, other theories will be concocted to help men conceal the truth from their eyes."  ---Rabbi Avigdor Miller, Rejoice O Youth!, pp. 29-30

Offline Rubystars

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I think the whole "Vestigial organ" argument is probably going to be abandoned simply for the fact that all organs that are retained were probably retained because they served a functional purpose. Harder to explain away though are atavisms like whales occasionally born with back legs or chickens occasionally born with teeth.

Offline angryChineseKahanist

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Evolve does not [censored] mean to adapt. It means to mutate. There are no half-pigs or beavers. Black people would have turned less black over a couple more hundred years, but there was a good deal of intermarriage. You also, did not mutate. Hopefully, because mutation MUST always be detrimental. Every proof 1-5

..................

y something to offend you. Instead, I would just like to call you an ignoramus where this junk science is concerned.

did you really write all that?
very interesting. I make observations and I ask questions. But to disappoint you, I don't claim to be a great debater.

U+262d=U+5350=U+9774


Offline Rubystars

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I'm not really interested in being bashed. I'm also not really interested in trying to convince someone who has decided beforehand not to accept any evidence presented or even to discuss that evidence. You're answering what I bring up with copy and paste rather than discussing it yourself. I don't feel like arguing with web pages.

So to answer your copy and paste, I'll paste one thing for you to watch, then I'm going to let you believe what you want. I don't feel movitated to convince anyone of evolution anymore because I don't want people to abandon faith because of it or to start thinking of humans as being on the same level as animals (while accepting evolution doesn't require someone to do that, unfortunately people jump to that false conclusion about it all too often).

I believe that regardless of how we got here, we got here because God willed it. Whether He commanded "let the earth bring forth" or He did it more directly, God still created using one method or another, so really convincing you that evolution is fact doesn't much matter to me.

You can watch this if you want to, but you don't have to if you don't want to.

Offline DanaCarvey

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I'm not really interested in being bashed. I'm also not really interested in trying to convince someone who has decided beforehand not to accept any evidence presented or even to discuss that evidence. You're answering what I bring up with copy and paste rather than discussing it yourself. I don't feel like arguing with web pages.

So to answer your copy and paste, I'll paste one thing for you to watch, then I'm going to let you believe what you want. I don't feel movitated to convince anyone of evolution anymore because I don't want people to abandon faith because of it or to start thinking of humans as being on the same level as animals (while accepting evolution doesn't require someone to do that, unfortunately people jump to that false conclusion about it all too often).

I believe that regardless of how we got here, we got here because God willed it. Whether He commanded "let the earth bring forth" or He did it more directly, God still created using one method or another, so really convincing you that evolution is fact doesn't much matter to me.

You can watch this if you want to, but you don't have to if you don't want to.


"Darwin's theory gained acceptance on the basis of ideas which have since been entirely discarded.  1)The Survival of the Fittest theory has proved untenable.  Darwin knew nothing of the Mendelian laws, and he therefore failed to explain how new species could come into existence; and he was unable to offer any reasonable exposition of the mechanics of evolution.  (The Mendelian system is also a failure as an explanation, but Darwin did not have even this shattered crutch.)  2) The theory of the inheritance of acquired characteristics has been ridiculed out of existence.  Darwin's clumsy allegations were no more than a rehashed version of Lamarck's totally discredited theory of acquired characteristics.  Darwin's apologists labored to disclaim any reliance upon the bankrupt Lamarck, but they admitted that "of all technicalities in biology this is the most difficult for the student to perceive."  It was indeed difficult, for the original Darwinism was built entirely on the idea of the inheritance of acquired characteristics.  3) Darwin's prediction that the future fossil finds would demonstrate every stage of evolution has turned into a fiasco; it is now generally conceded that "there is nothing to hope for" after 100 years of worldwide digging.  4) The theory of uniform mineral layers around the earth was long ago laughed away.  But the theorists cannot allow the Theory to fall.  Instead of mineral layers around the globe they have invented imaginary fossil layers.  Instead of Darwin's magical Adaptation which was credited with the power of creating new beings, the theorists have snatched at the straw of Sudden Mutation, which explains nothing at all.  The theory of sudden mutations is actually a theory of hundreds of thousands of lucky and coordinated accidents in each organism.  But the old Darwinism is dead, and the glib explanations which gained its acceptance are universally recognized as false.  Yet Darwinism cannot be abandoned.  The truth is that proofs and explanations are secondary to the theorists; their real interest is in the theories alone.  Proofs may come and go, but the theories remain."  ---Rabbi Avigdor Miller, Sing You Righteous, pp.63-64