Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea

Sodom and Gomorrah and the Dead Sea

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muman613:
I did find what I was saying above, that there is an association between Shechet and Shtach...

Here Rashi explains from Yehezkel:

http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/showrashi/false/aid/16106/jewish/Chapter-8.htm

טז. וַיָּבֵא אֹתִי אֶל חֲצַר בֵּית יְהֹוָה הַפְּנִימִית וְהִנֵּה פֶתַח הֵיכַל יְהֹוָה בֵּין הָאוּלָם וּבֵין הַמִּזְבֵּחַ כְּעֶשְׂרִים וַחֲמִשָּׁה אִישׁ אֲחֹרֵיהֶם אֶל הֵיכַל יְהֹוָה וּפְנֵיהֶם קֵדְמָה וְהֵמָּה מִשְׁתַּחֲוִיתֶם קֵדְמָה לַשָּׁמֶשׁ:

16. And He brought me to the inner court of the house of the Lord, and behold, at the entrance of the Temple of the Lord between the porch and the altar, about twenty- five men, their backs to the Temple of the Lord and their faces toward the east, and they were prostrating themselves eastward to the sun.

Rashi:
and they were prostrating themselves: Heb. מִשְּׁתַּחֲוִיתֶם. This serves as two words, an expression of destruction (הַשְּׁחָתָה) and an expression of prostrating oneself (הִשְּׁתַּחֲוָיָה). So it is in Yerushalmi (Suc. 5:5, see Korban Ha’edah): “They were destroying the Temple and bowing to the sun.” Jonathan, too, rendered in that manner: and they were destroying and bowing.“ Menachem (p. 171) classified it as an expression of bending down, like (Isa. 51:23): ” Bend down (שְּׁחִי) and let us cross."

muman613:
Brianroy,

So what is it exactly you are seeking? Confirmation that Sodom is where the Dead sea is today?

I don't think that we really want to find it.... It was destroyed, and that is enough for me...

Brianroy:
Muman,

I have only used two historical texts from the Christian letters of the First Century of the Common Era (C.E.), neither from Paul, in the same historical context one might quote Caesar regarding his invasion of Gaul in the 50's B.C.E., or Herodotus regarding what he saw and heard as contemporary in his day centuries earlier than that.  In that historical context, I presented what I told Dr. Collins (the one who came up with Tall el-Hammam in Jordan is / was the Sodom of the Bible that is now sadly gaining credibility)  back in March of 2008.   While I am a born again Christian and a Gentile,  I am not here to convert anyone to anything, one way or the other, simply to discuss Sodom, the Dead Sea, and related texts.   I am sorry if you took it in any way beyond that.   
I hope we may continue the topic.  Would Josephus or earth sciences be best to discuss next? 


Thanks. 

muman613:

--- Quote from: Brianroy on April 05, 2013, 12:26:12 AM ---Muman,

I have only used two historical texts from the Christian letters of the First Century of the Common Era (C.E.), neither from Paul, in the same historical context one might quote Caesar regarding his invasion of Gaul in the 50's B.C.E., or Herodotus regarding what he saw and heard as contemporary in his day centuries earlier than that.  In that historical context, I presented what I told Dr. Collins (the one who came up with Tall el-Hammam in Jordan is / was the Sodom of the Bible that is now sadly gaining credibility)  back in March of 2008.   While I am a born again Christian and a Gentile,  I am not here to convert anyone to anything, one way or the other, simply to discuss Sodom, the Dead Sea, and related texts.   I am sorry if you took it in any way beyond that.   
I hope we may continue the topic.  Would Josephus or earth sciences be best to discuss next? 


Thanks.

--- End quote ---

Shalom Brianroy,

I have no problem with your hypothesis. But when discussing the topic with Jews I think you should avoid references to scriptures which are not a part of the Jewish canon. This is only my personal opinion but I think it is best from a Jewish perspective to avoid those references because it may cause a Jew to stray from the path which Hashem has commanded us. I have written several threads where I explain, according to my understanding, that the Jewish people are not to learn the ways that other non-Jews worship nor should we mention the names of foreign deities (or names which are worshiped as deities) such as your messiah.

I appreciate your response. Let us hear your ideas on this topic.

Thank you,
muman613

Brianroy:
Thank you Muman.

Using the Google Earth software application, I just went back and ran two ground view trajectories off of Mount Nebo and off Pisgah (the southwest jut) from Mount Nebo based on Devarim (Deuteronomy) 34:3. 


The most southern view from Mount Nebo proper appears to run across the Dead Sea  in a direct trajectory that comes to a field just south of Hebron.


The most southern view from Pisgah runs a trajectory across the runway of Bar Yehuda airstrip just 2.6 miles from Masada, and continues on to Masada.


Isaiah 15:5 and Jeremiah 48:34 place Zoar as on the eastern shoreline of what was contended as part of Moab in their days.  This comes out to approximately 31.5 degrees latitude, and puts Machaerus on along essentially this same Pisgah trajectory as yet another marker if we use a ruler on a printed map to view this.  But if I am slightly off on the view, and there is just a slight more angle that the Google Earth software does not show, then the answer seems to manifest as coming together to resolve the issue; because the absolute very tip of the Lisan Peninsula, it now seems to me, upon a re-evaluation of this, may very well be the intended designation of Zoar.  It is to the Eastern side as in concurring with Isaiah 15:5 and Jeremiah 48:34.   

I have the belief that Moses was a giant of a man whose height was close to nine feet, yet was dwarfed by Og of Bashan.  If this is the case, or if Joshua were to be upon an animal and stood to view from a height of 9 or 10 feet on Pisgah, perhaps that would also be the minor distance in view the extreme northern tip of the Lisan Peninsula the the extreme edge of Pisgah, if it actually runs southwest rather than Northwest from Nebo.  Not ever being on the ground at Nebo and seeing only a computer model, I do need assistance on the visual on this one.   

What do you, or anyone else looking in to this thread,  think in regards to this?  Thanks.

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