Author Topic: Orthodox Jewish man, wrapped in a plastic bag in his airline seat  (Read 2912 times)

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Offline cjd

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http://www.jewishpress.com/news/plastic-bag-airplane-passenger-a-kohen-staying-pure/2013/04/12/?src=ataglance






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'HOLY PLASTIC!'
‘Plastic Bag’ Airplane Passenger a Kohen Staying Pure?
Look up in the sky? Is It a bird? Is it a plane? No, it’s Plastic Man – the Orthodox Jew who wrapped himself in plastic on an airplane, apparently because he is a very scrupulous Kohen.
By: Tzvi Ben-Gedalyahu
Published: April 12th, 2013
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An Orthodox Jewish man, wrapped in a plastic bag in his airline seat, apparently did so because he was probably a Kohen who went to extreme lengths to make sure he would not be ritually impure if the plane flew over a Jewish cemetery.

Kohenim are prohibited from coming into contact with dead bodies, and many rabbis have taken the strict opinion that a Kohen may not ride in a plane if he knows ahead of time that it will fly directly over a Jewish cemetery. Many have ruled that if does not know of the flight plan, he may ride in the airplane.

El Al once agreed to change a fight trajectory to avoid flying over a cemetery.

The man wrapped in plastic, whose photograph first appeared on the Redditor site and later on the Gothamist site, apparently did not want to take any chances. By covering himself in plastic, he established a separation between him and impurities.

However, since he arrived at his destination safe and sound, it can be assumed there was a hole in the plastic bag so he could breathe.

Some readers of Redditor suggested that “plastic man” was making sure he would not come into contact with the woman sitting behind him, but that is doubtful since it is unlikely he carried a plastic covering “just in case.”

Or maybe he simply wanted some attention.
He who overlooks one crime invites the commission of another.        Syrus.

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Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Orthodox Jewish man, wrapped in a plastic bag in his airline seat
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2013, 08:04:09 PM »
That's what we call a big fence.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Zelhar

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Re: Orthodox Jewish man, wrapped in a plastic bag in his airline seat
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2013, 04:18:55 AM »
I call it full proof condom.

Offline Spiraling Leopard

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Re: Orthodox Jewish man, wrapped in a plastic bag in his airline seat
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2013, 05:17:57 AM »
I'd rather sit next to him than next to a muslim(a) in or out a burka and he still looks less ridiculous than a pyjama-paki.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Orthodox Jewish man, wrapped in a plastic bag in his airline seat
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2013, 07:29:23 AM »
Is this for real?

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Orthodox Jewish man, wrapped in a plastic bag in his airline seat
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2013, 07:35:57 AM »
Why is one thin layer of plastic better than being enclosed by the much thicker material of the airplane? After all he already has material between himself and the graveyards if he's inside the plane. How does the plastic bag do anything further?

I've got another question too. Does this mean that one of the Levites or Cohanim could never fly into space? At that altitude, you'd be "above" pretty much half of the world at a time with lots of cemeteries at once underneath you.


Offline Zelhar

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Re: Orthodox Jewish man, wrapped in a plastic bag in his airline seat
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2013, 08:41:45 AM »
Is this for real?
Yes there are a few haredim who think Kohens must wrap themselves in plastic if they fly over a Jewish cemetery. It's very uncommon and las I heard the airlines forbid this.

Offline Zelhar

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Re: Orthodox Jewish man, wrapped in a plastic bag in his airline seat
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2013, 09:10:04 AM »
Why is one thin layer of plastic better than being enclosed by the much thicker material of the airplane? After all he already has material between himself and the graveyards if he's inside the plane. How does the plastic bag do anything further?

I've got another question too. Does this mean that one of the Levites or Cohanim could never fly into space? At that altitude, you'd be "above" pretty much half of the world at a time with lots of cemeteries at once underneath you.
Good questions Rubystars. From my knowledge of Jewish halachic thinking I am sure your questions has been asked and pondered upon by some rabbis :) I suspect that they think an airplane isn't hermetically shielding as there are cracks and openings in the jet's belly. A spaceship is on the other hand completely sealed from the outside environment.

The halachic problem here is of "tumah retzutza". If you have a dead, even buried human, if there a tent or any sort of barrier above the remains with 10cm or more of open space, then the tumah (impurity) is contained. But if there isn't such a barrier, then the tumah extends vertically to infinity.

It is true that a Kohen must do as best as he can to avoid exposure to the impurity of the dead. Since we have no temple, there is no way to remove that impurity. So everyone has that impurity nowadays. But still that doesn't mean repeated exposure is permissible to a Kohen, he has to make an effort to minimize that exposure.

The question is when does this effort takes it to the absurd. I think most religious Jews think wrapping oneself in a condom is taking this rule to absurd. Not only is it ridiculous, I doubt they actually create a valid barrier between themselves and the tumah because from my understanding (though I could be wrong), there has to be a contained space of about 10cm between themselves and the tumah "radiation".

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Orthodox Jewish man, wrapped in a plastic bag in his airline seat
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2013, 10:03:15 AM »
Thanks Zelhar those were good answers!

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Orthodox Jewish man, wrapped in a plastic bag in his airline seat
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2013, 08:33:03 PM »
Or could be that the airplane carries dead bodies as well in its luggage sometimes.

 And its a bag not a "condom".
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Binyamin Yisrael

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Re: Orthodox Jewish man, wrapped in a plastic bag in his airline seat
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2013, 09:45:47 PM »
El Al has special flights that Kohanim are assured are not carrying bodies for burial. Some Kohanim also avoid the tunnels under the Hudson River and the lower level of the George Washington Bridge for the same reason in case there is a funeral procession in the tunnel or on the lower level of the bridge. The tunnel and the deck of the bridge above would be considered the ohel.


Offline Sveta

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Re: Orthodox Jewish man, wrapped in a plastic bag in his airline seat
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2013, 12:38:57 AM »
Levites do not have the same prohibitions that the Kohanim do. Levites do not have to worry about impurity of a cemetery. But the Kohanim have the prohibition because they were and will be the ones doing the Temple sacrifices. Thus, the Kohanim have much stricter rules than the Levites.

Offline Zelhar

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Re: Orthodox Jewish man, wrapped in a plastic bag in his airline seat
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2013, 04:32:37 AM »
El Al has special flights that Kohanim are assured are not carrying bodies for burial. Some Kohanim also avoid the tunnels under the Hudson River and the lower level of the George Washington Bridge for the same reason in case there is a funeral procession in the tunnel or on the lower level of the bridge. The tunnel and the deck of the bridge above would be considered the ohel.
Why can't they put a shoo box beneath their seat and call it ohel ?

Offline Debbie Shafer

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Re: Orthodox Jewish man, wrapped in a plastic bag in his airline seat
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2013, 08:36:39 AM »
Is this because of the fear of germs?   

Offline Binyamin Yisrael

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Re: Orthodox Jewish man, wrapped in a plastic bag in his airline seat
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2013, 12:37:40 PM »
Why can't they put a shoo box beneath their seat and call it ohel ?


Ohalim are on top, not the bottom. It means being under the same roof as a dead body. That's why Kohanim can't enter a funeral home and have to hear the service from outside via a loud speaker.


Offline Zelhar

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Re: Orthodox Jewish man, wrapped in a plastic bag in his airline seat
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2013, 01:06:36 PM »


Ohalim are on top, not the bottom. It means being under the same roof as a dead body. That's why Kohanim can't enter a funeral home and have to hear the service from outside via a loud speaker.
The Kohen should be separated from the tumah which is contained in the ohel. If for example there is an empty cavern above the grave then it blocks the tumah from radiating vertically, that's at least what I read.

Offline edu

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Re: Orthodox Jewish man, wrapped in a plastic bag in his airline seat
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2013, 01:57:44 AM »
On a Rabbinic level, the rabbis gave all of the land outside of Israel the status of a graveyard.  Because of this, there is a dispute amongst the rabbis, under what conditions if at all can a Cohain leave the land.
For Hebrew speakers, I found on the net at least one article that partially deals with this issue (although the article stresses the more lenient views).
http://www.daat.ac.il/daat/kitveyet/emunat/24/02403.htm

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Orthodox Jewish man, wrapped in a plastic bag in his airline seat
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2013, 07:13:55 AM »
Maybe a couple people do this but this photo still looks really, really staged.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Orthodox Jewish man, wrapped in a plastic bag in his airline seat
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2013, 10:09:06 PM »
The Kohen should be separated from the tumah which is contained in the ohel. If for example there is an empty cavern above the grave then it blocks the tumah from radiating vertically, that's at least what I read.

 The laws are complex and I do not know them well, but from the very little that I might recall when their is a roof type of thing (or a tree) it is concidered as being part of the same domain, on the other hand in Messechet Berachot their is the view and the examples brought where certain Kohanim were crossing a cemetery and jumping over some graves because they needed to get to the other side, I don't recall if it is muttar or not but at least the opinion and practice of them was brought down. I believe its in the Bavli Berachot Chapter 3 that discusses some of this.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Zelhar

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Re: Orthodox Jewish man, wrapped in a plastic bag in his airline seat
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2013, 04:12:33 AM »
The laws are complex and I do not know them well, but from the very little that I might recall when their is a roof type of thing (or a tree) it is concidered as being part of the same domain, on the other hand in Messechet Berachot their is the view and the examples brought where certain Kohanim were crossing a cemetery and jumping over some graves because they needed to get to the other side, I don't recall if it is muttar or not but at least the opinion and practice of them was brought down. I believe its in the Bavli Berachot Chapter 3 that discusses some of this.
I recall something like this too. They had some system of raising Kohanim without exposure to the dead. When they had to move they put on some platform which was on top of an ox so there would be a barrier separating them from the graves.