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The Ministering Angels wanted to say Shira at Yom Suf (the Red {or Reed} Sea)

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muman613:
edu,

I understand what you are saying but there are many questions.

The Shuir Az Yashir clearly says that the Children of Israel walked on the dry seabed and were pursued by the Mitzrim, who were drowned in the sea. Nowhere do I see any discussion of Israel drowning in the sea. What I have learned is that at the sea there were three camps which formed, some said they should return to Israel, others said they were prepared to die, and others prayed to Hashem. When Nachshon waded into the sea to his nostrils, because of his merit, the sea began to split.

I have never heard that Hashem was angry at the Children of Israel at this point. He told Moses to stop praying and move into the sea, and he would provide the miracle. If, according to your explanation, Hashem was angry at Israel why did he split the sea?

The Children of Israel who left were meritorious for being taken out. All those who were not meritorious perished in the darkness. While I definately believe that Hashem wished to destroy the Egyptians because of their wickedness, in order to make his name known in the world. So too he brought all the destruction to Egypt because of their ill treatment of them during their exile.

Your explanation leaves many questions as to why Hashem would even bring us out.

Although I do agree that Hashem was angry at the generation of Mordechai for their losing emmunah so quickly (70 years). Thus the decree of Haman was actually a decree from Hashem...

edu:
Muman613 I will briefly repeat part of 2 sources that I have already quoted

--- Quote ---‘My beloved ones are drowning in the sea and thou prolongest prayer before Me!’ (Sotah 37a)
--- End quote ---
Mechilta deRebbe Yishmael Bshalach Parsha 6.

--- Quote ---And the children of Israel walked in the dry land amidst the sea, and the ministering angels were astonished saying people who are idol worshipers are walking in the dry land within the sea. And where do we know that even the sea was filled up with wrath against them, for it was stated and the water was for them as a Choma (literally wall) Do not read it in the literal way as Choma but rather Chaima that is to say wrath! And what caused Israel to be saved? From their right and from their left. From their right in the merit of the Torah that in the future they would receive from their right as it is stated, from his right a fiery law (or religion) (Dvarim/Deut.33:2) and from his left this is prayer...Said the Holy One Blessed Be He in the same way that I rejoiced over Egypt to eliminate them, thus I was nearly happy over Israel to eliminate them, but what caused them to be saved, from their right and from their left.
--- End quote ---
I will add to these sources what Rashi says on Shmot/Exodus 19:14 : "This teaches us that Israel was placed under judgement at that moment, whether to be saved or to perish together with the Egyptians". And so too does Mechilta deRebbe Yishmael comment on that verse and so too Pesikta Zutarta (Lekach Tov) and midrash sekel tov and Yalkut Shimoni
ילקוט שמעוני תורה פרשת בשלח רמז רלג

, שאל רבי נתן את רבי שמעון בן יוחאי בכל מקום הוא אומר וימצאה מלאך ה' ויאמר לה מלאך ה' וירא מלאך ה' וכאן הוא אומר מלאך האלקים, אמר לו אין אלקים בכל מקום אלא דין מגיד הכתוב שהיו ישראל נתונים בדין באותה שעה אם להנצל אם ליאבד עם מצריים
What you said Muman613 and I quote is not entirely correct:

--- Quote ---The Children of Israel who left were meritorious for being taken out. All those who were not meritorious perished in the darkness.
--- End quote ---
What Rashi says is that the Jews who did not want to leave Egypt were killed in the plague of darkness. That is not to say everyone who was left was a Tzaddik. Among those that were left for example, was Datan and Aviram.
Later I will bring more sources G-d willing, on the low spiritual level that the Israelites who survived the plague of darkness were on.

edu:
Although I could bring other sources or interpret the one I am bringing slightly differently for the sake of ease I am quoting from
http://dafyomireview.com/rebnissan/Kesher_Shel_Kayama/036-2012-Beshalach-English.pdf

--- Quote ---"And the Bnai Yisroel came within the sea on dry land, and the water
became a wall
on their right and on their left"
"The Bnai Yisroel went on dry land in middle of the sea, and the water
was a wall for them on their right and on their left."
There are two differences between these pesukim that need to be
addressed. Why does the posuk first say they came in the sea on dry
land, and in the second posuk the order is reversed, they went on dry
land in middle of the sea. Also the world "choma" is spelled in the first
posuk with a vav and in the second posuk the vav is absent. What are
these
differences here coming to teach us?
The Vilna Goan brings a Medresh that the Idol of Micha crossed
through the Yam Suf with the Bnai Yisroel. Obviously this can't mean
the actual Pesel Micha as that
Idol was not created
until the days of the Judges.
Rather explains the Goan the Medresh is telling us that
there were those amongst the Bnai Yisroel that had thoughts of idol
worship even while crossing the sea. And as Chazal teach us, although
normally one who thinks of a sin does not get judged as having
actually done it, if one thinks of Idol worship it is as if he indeed
served those idols.
The Goan tells us that these people were found amongst Shevet Dan.
The Shevet of Dan was the last Shevet in the formation of the Bnai
Yisroel through the Midbar and was
therefore the last one to cross the
sea. Now we can understand these two pesukim. The Goan is learning
that the Bnai Yisroel crossed the Red Sea as a single column of people.
Therefore as the first group was crossing the sea the last ones were
still on dry
land. And as the first group
arrived
on dry land
the last
group was still in the sea.
This is wording of the pesukim; "and the Bnai Yisroel came within the
sea on dry land", meaning that the first group was in the sea while the
remainder was still on dry
land being yet to enter the split sea. The
second posuk describes a later moment as the first group already
exited and the end of the column was still crossing through the sea,
"the Bnai Yisroel went on dry land in middle of the sea".
The Medresh tells us
that at the time of Krias Yam Suf the Angels
protested that the Bnai Yisroel were
being
saved and the Egyptians
killed. Both serve idols they argued, why are you only saving the
Bnai Yisroel? To which Hashem answered the Bnai Yisroel trust in me and
are therefore worthy of me saving them.
Now we can understand the missing Vav. The Ibam Ezra explains that
Choma without a Vav is read as Chaima
–
anger. The water rose in
anger around the Bnai Yisroel.
Therefore as the first group was crossing the sea, the idol worshippers
were still on dry land, so the water around them was as firm as a wall,
for these people were indeed worthy of being saved. However as the
latter groups to cross were in the sea and the former group had
already exited the water rose up in fury, as it was these people that
had thoughts of idol worship and on these people the Angels
protested.
We can explain this in a slightly different manner as well. The Angels
protested that both the Egyptians and the Bnai Yisroel were serving
idols, to which Hashem retorted but they have complete faith in me. It
was only the first group who jumped into the sea
–
before it split –that we can say on them that they had complete trust in Hashem.
Everyone else entered on what was already dry land.
Now we can read the pesukim, as the first people entered the posuk
says"And the Bnai Yisroel came within the sea on dry land
", for these people actually leapt into the sea,
and on these people the posuk says the water formed a wall, because they displayed complete
 faith in Hashem leaving the Angels silent.
As the latter people crossed the posuk says, "The Bnai Yisroel went on
dry land in middle of the sea". These people simply went were they
thought it was safe, they did not display the same faith in Hashem;
therefore the sea rose up in protest, "both serve idols"!
For this reason the vav is missing, to show the protest of the Angels as to why
the Bnai Yisroel was being saved and the Egyptians drowned.
Rav Yosef Shaul, the Author of the Shoel U'maishiv, also goes with a
similar approach. As long as the Egyptians were not yet drowning
 the Angels remained silent. Therefore as the first group crossed the
Egyptians were still on dry land, the posuk therefore says the water
was a wall.
As the Bnai Yisroel exited on one end and the Egyptians entered and
began to drown, it was then that the Angels spoke up, "didn't the Bnai
Yisroel also serve idols"? Therefore at that time the water rose up in
fury, hence only in the latter posuk is the word Choma spelled as
Chaima, missing the Vav.
"
)
 (Adapted from Rav Nissan Kaplan's Kesher Shel Kayma)
--- End quote ---

muman613:
Yes, I understand the angels were testifying against the Children of Israel. They were saying 'These are Idolators, and so too these are Idolators". They could not understand why Hashem would save the Jewish people because they were not much better than the Egyptians themselves.

Here is an excerpt from the shemayisrael site which explains this midrash:

http://www.shemayisrael.com/parsha/alport/archives/beshalach69.htm


--- Quote ---Uv’nei Yisroel halchu bayabasha b’soch hayam v’hamayim lahem chomah miy’minam u’mismolam (14:29)

The Medrash teaches (Yalkut Shimoni 234) that when the Jewish people were crossing the Red Sea, the prosecuting angel argued that it was inappropriate for Hashem to perform miracles on their behalf since they had worshipped idolatry in Egypt. This argument is difficult to understand. If their idolatrous practices represented a reason that Hashem shouldn’t perform miracles on their behalf, why did he wait until this point to make this argument instead of pressing his claim during the entire year that Hashem was performing the ten plagues on their behalf?

The Meshech Chochmah answers by pointing out a curious apparent contradiction. With regard to commandments which are violated through actions, such as idolatry and forbidden relationships, the Torah prescribes an appropriate punishment, such as death, lashes, and kares (spiritual excision), for each transgression. On the other hand, no such punishment is given in conjunction with mitzvos that are transgressed through corrupt character traits, such as forbidden gossip or hating another Jew.

            However, this dichotomy applies only to sins committed by an individual. Regarding communal sins, the rule is reversed. The Yerushalmi teaches (Peah 1:1) that the generation of Dovid HaMelech was righteous, yet they still fell in battle because they spread rumors about one another. The generation of Achav was full of wicked idolaters, yet they emerged successful and unscathed from their battles because they didn’t gossip about one another. He explains that if the nation is corrupt in idolatry or adultery, Hashem still dwells among them in the midst of their spiritual impurity, but if they are stricken with bad character traits, He metaphorically abandons them to return to the Heavens.

Because of the communal severity of interpersonal sins, the first Temple was destroyed for the cardinal sins of murder, idolatry, and forbidden relationships, yet it was rebuilt relatively quickly. The second Temple was destroyed for the sin of gossip and baseless hatred, and has yet to be rebuilt (Yoma 9b). Similarly, Hashem forgave the Jewish people for the sin of idolatrously worshipping the golden calf, but He didn’t forgive them for the sin of the spies, which involved negative speech and a lack of gratitude, and decreed that they would die in the wilderness as a result.

            With this introduction, the Meshech Chochmah explains that in Egypt, the Jewish people were steeped in the 49th level of spiritual impurity and worshipped idolatry just like the Egyptians. Still, they had one saving grace, in that they dwelled peacefully and didn’t gossip about one another (Vayikra Rabbah 32:5). As a result, Hashem forgave their other communal sins and miraculously performed the plagues to bring about their salvation, and the prosecuting angel had grounds for his argument.

When they were trapped at the Red Sea by the pursuing Egyptians, the Medrash (Yalkut Shimoni 233) teaches that they divided into 4 groups who fought about the appropriate strategy. Only at this time, when the nation lacked unity, was the prosecuting angel able to argue that they should be judged for their individual sins, such as idolatry, and Hashem should not perform further miracles on their behalf. In these difficult times for our nation, let us strengthen ourselves in our pursuit of unity and love for our fellow Jews. In that merit, Hashem should perform miracles for us just as He did for our ancestors in Egypt.

--- End quote ---

I also realized last night when I was about to sleep that I mis-stated the midrash. I stated they divided into three camps, but it actually was that they divided into four camps.

muman613:
I realize that this is not exactly on-topic for your thread, but it provides a more complete explanation of the 'four camps' which formed at the edge of the Sea of Reeds...

http://www.chabad.org/global/popup/default_cdo/aid/2774/jewish/The-Four-Factions.htm


--- Quote ---
Moses said to the people: "Fear not; stand by and see the salvation of G-d which He will show you today. For as you have seen Egypt this day, you shall not see them again, forever. G-d shall fight for you, and you shall be silent."

G-d said to Moses: "Why do you cry out to Me? Speak to the children of Israel, that they should go forward."

Exodus 14:13-15

We all know the feeling: you wake up one morning to the realization that the world is not as you would like it to be.

A common experience, to be sure, but different people have different reactions. One person embarks upon a quixotic crusade to change the world. A second gives up the world for lost, and retreats into whatever protective walls he can erect around himself and his loved ones. A third takes a pragmatic approach, accepting the world for what it is and doing his best under the circumstances. A fourth recognizes his inability to deal with the situation, and looks to a higher power for guidance and aid.

Our forefathers experienced just such a rude awakening on the seventh day after their liberation from Egypt.

Ten devastating plagues had broken the might of the Egyptians and compelled them to free the Jewish people. After two centuries of exile and slavery, the children of Israel were headed toward Mount Sinai and their covenant with G-d. Indeed, this was the stated purpose of the Exodus; as G-d told Moses, "When you take this nation out of Egypt, you will serve G-d at this mountain."

But suddenly the sea was before them and Pharaoh's armies were closing in from behind. Egypt was alive and well; the sea, too, seemed oblivious to the destiny of the newly born nation.

How did they react? The Midrash tells us that the Jewish people were divided into four camps. There were those who said, "Let us throw ourselves into the sea." A second group said, "Let us return to Egypt." A third faction argued, "Let us wage war upon the Egyptians." Finally, a fourth camp advocated, "Let us pray to G-d."

Moses, however, rejected all four options, saying to the people, "Fear not; stand by and see the salvation of G-d which He will show you today. For as you have seen Egypt this day, you shall not see them again, forever. G-d shall fight for you, and you shall be silent" (Exodus 14:13). "Fear not, stand by and see the salvation of G-d," explains the Midrash, is Moses' response to those who had despaired of overcoming the Egyptian threat and wanted to plunge into the sea. "As you have seen Egypt this day, you shall not see them again" is addressed to those who advocated surrender and return to Egypt. "G-d shall fight for you" is the answer to those who wished to battle the Egyptians, "and you shall be silent" is Moses rejection of those who said, "This is all beyond us. All we can do is pray."
--- End quote ---

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