Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Noah's raven and dove
Rubystars:
--- Quote from: Zelhar on May 14, 2013, 06:34:51 AM ---Ravens are more intelligent then doves, I think they are also better flyers so can can travel higher and longer distances. Aside from that they have a different pattern of behaviour. Doves tend to stick to their nests and if they have nested on the Ark they will return to the nest.
As for ravens, I have watched in "the Vikings" (I believe it is a true fact though) that they kept ravens on their long ships and set them loose and watch the direction the raven flew. The raven would fly at the shortest way towards land if he could see land at all. If there was no land he would return to the ship.
--- End quote ---
That's pretty cool. Thanks for the information. I think the Vikings liked ravens because they associated them with their false pagan deity though but it is a good example of using them for a similar purpose.
Rubystars:
I've got another question. How could there be clean and unclean animals if the kosher laws had not yet been given?
Someone I was watching on a video said that clean animals were those who had not yet given birth because blood had not been spilled during the birth process or something like that.
Now, I'd never heard it that way before, and I'd always assumed for some reason that clean and unclean meant kosher and un-kosher, but even according to modern Judaism, Noachides are not required to eat kosher food, and it doesn't appear that the kosher laws were revealed in Noah's time yet.
So what does clean and unclean animals mean in this story?
Harzel:
--- Quote from: Rubystars on May 15, 2013, 07:28:33 AM ---I've got another question. How could there be clean and unclean animals if the kosher laws had not yet been given?
Someone I was watching on a video said that clean animals were those who had not yet given birth because blood had not been spilled during the birth process or something like that.
Now, I'd never heard it that way before, and I'd always assumed for some reason that clean and unclean meant kosher and un-kosher, but even according to modern Judaism, Noachides are not required to eat kosher food, and it doesn't appear that the kosher laws were revealed in Noah's time yet.
So what does clean and unclean animals mean in this story?
--- End quote ---
Until the the flood the righteous people didn't eat meat at all except perhaps for sacrifice. Only "pure" or "clean" animal could be sacrificed to god. Jews believe that even before the Torah the line from Adam to Noah to Jacob actually had known and practiced all the commandments. In exile in Egypt it was forgotten.
So Noah himself wouldn't eat non-kosher animal and the ark stock was meant to provide for Noah and his family and for sacrifices for God. If there were other survivers not from the ark they would eat what they wanted and had available. As did The descendants that are not from the direct line from Noah to Abraham.
Specifically it is mentioned that Noah's son, Shem and his great grandson Eber had a study house in Mesopotamia. Because they had such a longer life span then succeeding generations, they were both still alive at the time of Jacob ! The calculation is very easy because the Torah gives for each member of this line his age when he beget his successor and his age he was when died.
See for example:
http://www.yeshiva.co/midrash/shiur.asp?id=6470
Rubystars:
Thanks Zelhar.
edu:
The Chafetz Chaim in his Likutei Halachot on chapter 14 of Zevachim, rules that Non-Jews are allowed to build an altar anywhere in the world and offer animal sacrifices even in our days (if done properly) although Jews can only offer sacrifices in our times on the Temple Mount (and the Jews have to abide by additional restrictions that do not apply to Gentiles in this matter).
However, non Jews have to offer from the tahor animals or birds(commonly translated as pure or clean) and not the tamei (impure or unclean) animals or birds.
Given this introduction there was a need for No'ach (Noah) to know what were the tahor animals in order to bring a proper sacrifice.
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