Author Topic: Jews protesting Israel  (Read 3359 times)

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Offline muman613

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Re: Jews protesting Israel
« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2013, 10:29:16 PM »
From the NK wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neturei_karta


Neturei Karta (Jewish Babylonian Aramaic: נטורי קרתא nāṭūrī qarṯā, literally "Guardians of the City") is a Jewish sect, formally created in Jerusalem, British Mandate of Palestine, in 1938, splitting off from Agudas Yisrael. Neturei Karta opposes Zionism and calls for a peaceful dismantling of the State of Israel, in the belief that Jews are forbidden to have their own state until the coming of the Jewish Messiah.[1][2] They live as a part of larger Haredi communities around the globe.

In Israel some members also pray at affiliated beit midrash, in Jerusalem's Meah Shearim neighborhood and in Ramat Beit Shemesh Bet. Neturei Karta states that no official count of the number of members exists.[3] The Jewish Virtual Library puts their numbers at 5,000 in Jerusalem[4] The Anti-Defamation League estimates that fewer than 100 members of the community take part in anti-Israel activism.[5]

According to Neturei Karta:

"The name Neturei Karta is a name usually given to those people who regularly pray in the Neturei Karta synagogues (Torah Ve'Yirah Jerusalem, Torah U'Tefillah London, Torah U'Tefillah NY, Beis Yehudi Upstate NY, etc.), study in or send their children to educational institutions run by Neturei Karta, or actively participate in activities, assemblies or demonstrations called by the Neturei Karta".[6]
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Jews protesting Israel
« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2013, 10:34:28 PM »
From the NK wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neturei_karta


Neturei Karta (Jewish Babylonian Aramaic: נטורי קרתא nāṭūrī qarṯā, literally "Guardians of the City") is a Jewish sect, formally created in Jerusalem, British Mandate of Palestine, in 1938, splitting off from Agudas Yisrael. Neturei Karta opposes Zionism and calls for a peaceful dismantling of the State of Israel, in the belief that Jews are forbidden to have their own state until the coming of the Jewish Messiah.[1][2] They live as a part of larger Haredi communities around the globe.

In Israel some members also pray at affiliated beit midrash, in Jerusalem's Meah Shearim neighborhood and in Ramat Beit Shemesh Bet. Neturei Karta states that no official count of the number of members exists.[3] The Jewish Virtual Library puts their numbers at 5,000 in Jerusalem[4] The Anti-Defamation League estimates that fewer than 100 members of the community take part in anti-Israel activism.[5]

According to Neturei Karta:

"The name Neturei Karta is a name usually given to those people who regularly pray in the Neturei Karta synagogues (Torah Ve'Yirah Jerusalem, Torah U'Tefillah London, Torah U'Tefillah NY, Beis Yehudi Upstate NY, etc.), study in or send their children to educational institutions run by Neturei Karta, or actively participate in activities, assemblies or demonstrations called by the Neturei Karta".[6]

They're kinda like Christians, except they believe in the second coming of the Jews.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Jews protesting Israel
« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2013, 10:36:16 PM »
They're kinda like Christians, except they believe in the second coming of the Jews.

 Huh? How? (it just came to me, perhaps the" turning of the cheek" philosophy, except they can and do get violent at Jews sometimes).
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Jews protesting Israel
« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2013, 10:41:16 PM »
Huh? How? (it just came to me, perhaps the" turning of the cheek" philosophy, except they can and do get violent at Jews sometimes).

Think. If they say "there will never be an Israel" they can't even claim to like Torah. Their biggest problem, with saying that the messiah should make Israel, besides that they're saying that all Jews there will be killed, is that there is an Israel, so in order to them to be right, the Jews there have to die, Israel has to be destroyed, and then the messiah can come for the second coming of Israel.

I kinda like how the prophesy about the second coming of the Jews doesn't exist. Tell this to them and they'll run crying back to the muzzrat [censored] they bend over backwards for.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline muman613

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Re: Jews protesting Israel
« Reply #29 on: June 06, 2013, 10:41:43 PM »
They're kinda like Christians, except they believe in the second coming of the Jews.

Not exactly... We Jews believe that Moshiach will come, gather the exiles into the Holy Land, and rebuild the Temple...

No 'second coming' or anything like that... Just the promised redemption.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Jews protesting Israel
« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2013, 10:51:46 PM »
Not exactly... We Jews believe that Moshiach will come, gather the exiles into the Holy Land, and rebuild the Temple...

No 'second coming' or anything like that... Just the promised redemption.

Yes my man, we Jews believe that. Do we believe in a second coming of Israel, too?
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline muman613

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Re: Jews protesting Israel
« Reply #31 on: June 06, 2013, 10:57:01 PM »
Yes my man, we Jews believe that. Do we believe in a second coming of Israel, too?

It is called 'the ingathering of exiles'... The Torah and Prophets foretell this...

http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books/highlights-of-moshiach/08.htm
Quote
In the Rambam's Code we find a clear ruling pertaining to the order of events through Moshiach:[42]
"He will rebuild the Beis Hamikdash in its place and then will gather the ingathering of exiles."

It is known that the Rambam shows significance and meaning even in the order of his rulings, as is also seen in the beginning of this Chapter:[43]

"The King Moshiach will arise and will fully restore the Kingdom of David to its original esteemed sovereignty; then he will rebuild the Beis Hamikdash and will gather the remnants of Jews in exile."

No posek (Codifier) disagrees with this order and ruling. And the Halachic principle is[44] that wherever the Commentaries on Rambam do not disagree with him, it is proof that they agree with his ruling. In our case, this refers to the renowned Codifiers - Raavad, Kesef Mishneh, Radvaz, etc. (who show no disagreement with this ruling re: the order of Moshiach's activities).

Practical, legal rulings are found and authenticated only in the works of Poskim, and not in Midrashic or Talmudic sources. And Rambam is the classical authoritative Codifier, especially in the area of Moshiach.

As such, Moshiach will usher in the final end of exile and then will come the beginning of redemption, followed by the true and complete redemption. After this, Moshiach will bring the ingathering of the exiles to our homeland, Israel.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Jews protesting Israel
« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2013, 11:02:27 PM »
It is called 'the ingathering of exiles'... The Torah and Prophets foretell this...

http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books/highlights-of-moshiach/08.htm

I too think the moshiah will come and more Jews will join. G-d brought the Jews back to Israel though, and they won't need to make a new one. Israel is the Zion foretold.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Jews protesting Israel
« Reply #33 on: June 06, 2013, 11:02:46 PM »
Yes my man, we Jews believe that. Do we believe in a second coming of Israel, too?

 No, third.  The second was during the times of Ezra and Nehemia. Now its the third (was and is going on for some time now).
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Jews protesting Israel
« Reply #34 on: June 06, 2013, 11:03:25 PM »
No, third.  The second was during the times of Ezra and Nehemia. Now its the third (was and is going on for some time now).

Second modern. You know what I mean.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge