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Rabbi debate with self-hating Jew[-Christian?]

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Israel Chai:
You banned the word [censored]? It means shower in french...

muman613:
Stiff-Necked people, as I explained previously, is not purely a derogatory statement by Hashem. It also has positive attributes.


--- Quote ---http://www.torah.org/learning/kolhakollel/5765/eikev.html
Nothing But The Truth

By Rabbi Elly Broch

"And you should know that not because of your righteousness does G-d, your L-rd, give you this good land to possess it, for you are a stiff necked people". (Devarim/Deuteronomy 9:6)

"For it is a stiff necked people, and you shall forgive our iniquity and error, and make us your heritage". (Shemos/Exodus 34:9)

One of the criticisms persistently leveled against our ancestors was that they were stiff necked. What does it mean to be stiff necked? Moreover, if this is a criticism, why in the book of Shemos does Moshe appear to use it as a means to secure forgiveness for the nation?

Rashi (1) explains that the term stiff necked implies that the nation would turn the back of their necks toward those who attempt to rebuke them and refuse to listen. Sforno (2) further provides the etiology for this characteristic. It is caused by one attempting to follow his own mind and heart even though he has been instructed logically and convincingly that his ideas are incorrect. His stiff neck is manifest in his inability to "move his head" and listen to those attempting to guide and help him. Thus, in Shemos, Sforno understands that Moshe was pleading with G-d that although the nation was stiff necked and prone to commit infractions, nevertheless the nation wanted the Creator of the World to continue to dwell in their midst. Despite their stiff-neckedness He should forgive them.

Rabbi Avigdor Miller (3) explains that Moshe requested that the nation should be forgiven specifically because they were a stiff necked people. Moshe was suggesting that this trait could be directed and harnessed for unswerving loyalty to the Divine. Indeed, this is one of our permanent and conspicuous characteristics bequeathed to us from our forefathers. One little family, in a world of great nations that served idols and practiced magic, needed an enormous stubbornness of loyalty and conviction in order to resist and repudiate the prevailing influence of the world in which they lived. They were a stiff necked people that were skeptical of miracles and difficult to convince, but once they were convinced by observation of the world and open demonstrations of the presence and benevolence of a Creator, they were committed and unyielding in their loyalty. Even Bilaam, a wicked Midianite prophet who actually attempted to destroy the Jewish nation, ultimately praised them, "He kneeled, he lay down like a lion, and like a lioness; who can rouse him up?" (Bamidbar/Numbers 24:10). We are a people that fight with lion-like ferociousness when oppressors attempt to repress or interfere with our practice of our precious heritage.

This stubbornness is a trait that, like many others, has destructive potential, but if channeled and used appropriately can be invaluable. Like our forefathers, we must thoroughly investigate our heritage, making Judaism integral to our beings and our identity, while maintaining a healthy skepticism of the myriad attractive yet false ideologies that prevail. We cannot simply assimilate the false philosophies that, although unsubstantiated, have engulfed our generation. We must utilize our stiff-neckedness to uncover the truth and live loyally by it.

Have a Good Shabbos!

(1) 1040-1105; Rabbi Shlomo Yitzchaki; commentator par excellence, whose commentary is considered basic to the understanding of the text
(2) 1470-1550; classic Biblical commentary of Rabbi Ovadiah Sforno of Rome and Bologna, Italy
(3) 1908-2001; a prolific author and popular speaker who specialized in mussar (introspective Jewish self-improvement) and Jewish history, Rabbi Miller commanded a worldwide following through his books and tapes: of the tens of thousands of Torah lectures he delivered, more than 2,000 were preserved on cassettes
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--- Quote ---http://www.torah.org/learning/dvartorah/5768/kisisa.html

A Stiff-Necked Nation

By Rabbi Label Lam

And HASHEM said to Moshe, “I have seen the nation and they are a stiff-necked nation.” (Shemos 32:9)

A stiff-necked nation: They turn the back of their neck to the one rebuking them and they refuse to listen. (Rashi)

A stiff-necked nation: You might think this is an insult to Israel but it is really their praise. After they accepted upon themselves the Mitzvos of the Torah, they give their lives entirely to sanctify the Name of HASHEM. Rabbi Avin says that until this very day Israel is referred to amongst the nations of the world as a “stiff-necked people” because of their devotion to the Torah without deviation. (Shemos Rabba)

Is this description of the Jewish Nation as a “stiff-necked nation” intended as an insult or a compliment? Which is the truth? If it is meant as praise, then why mention it here by the sin of the golden calf? The context would clearly tilt in favor of an unfavorable image. Why then does the Midrash choose to color it in more flattering tones?

With prophetic vision Dovid HaMelech describes “us” as follows: “All this has come upon us and we have not forgotten You, nor have we been false to Your covenant. Our heart has not turned back nor have our steps turned away from Your path. Even though You crushed us in the place of reptiles and covered us in the shadow of death. Have we forgotten forgotten the Name of our G-d and stretched out our hands to a strange g-d? Would not G- d have searched this out for he knows the secret of our hearts!? It is for Your sake that we are killed all the day, we are considered as sheep for the slaughter.” (Tehillim 44:18-22)

In the Teshuvos HaRashba 1548, he writes about our people: “Israel the inheritors of truth, the descendants of Jacob, the man of truth, seed of truth, would prefer to suffer continued exile and its horrors rather than accept something without critically and thoroughly analyzing it, step after step, to separate out any doubtful validity… even when it appears to be miraculous and absolute”

It’s recorded in a book about the Klausenberger Rebbe, The War Years: “Even during the most terrible times the Klausenberger Rebbe never lost his focus on Avodas HASHEM. Right under the noses of the Nazis, he studied and davened, and observed Mitzvos. Without regard for his personal safety he avoided the most minor transgression of the law. A survivor named Asher Brenner recalled, “In Auschwitz I was placed into the same group as the Klausenberger Rebbe. The Rebbe suffered even more than the rest of us because of his stubbornness. He refused to eat non-kosher food. He managed to bring his Tefillin into the camp with him, and he put them on every day. Notwithstanding the great danger he organized daily minyanim for prayer services. We often forgot about Shabbos but the Rebbe avoided desecrating Shabbos every week and made sure that no one else did the work that was imposed upon him. All this, of course, drew the attention of the Kapos, and they punished the Rebbe with vicious beatings. The Rebbe accepted the beating calmly, whispering to himself verses of consolation.”

Like any other trait, stubbornness can be used for good or the opposite. Therefore, for the sake of our survival, a stinging rebuke was needed, as it were, to reset the broken bone so it would not grow firm, committed to some corrupt value. So we have survived!

The historical record of the Jewish People’s enduring loyalty, under extreme duress is not less than a glorious testament to the truthfulness of that proud title The Almighty Himself draped lovingly over us as a talis-“A Stiff-Necked Nation!”
--- End quote ---

Israel Chai:

--- Quote from: muman613 on June 07, 2013, 07:16:55 PM ---Stiff-Necked people, as I explained previously, is not purely a derogatory statement by Hashem. It also has positive attributes.

--- End quote ---

Ha yeah I thought of that when he said that. Like before, it's double offensive now and he looks like a bumbling tool.

Ephraim Ben Noach:

JTFenthusiast2:

--- Quote from: muman613 on June 07, 2013, 07:16:55 PM ---Stiff-Necked people, as I explained previously, is not purely a derogatory statement by Hashem. It also has positive attributes.

--- End quote ---

I have only heard this expression used by religious anti-Semites.

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