Author Topic: A proposal to radically reorder the Jewish dialogue with non-Jews  (Read 894 times)

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Offline Southern Noachide

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Before getting to the body of this message, I respectfully suggest that all sincere believers in religions other than Judaism and the Noachide Laws not read this post, as they could be offended.  I have no wish to hurt anyone's feelings, but I do want to address the Jews and Noachides on this forum.

Ever since the emancipation and the “enlightenment,” the “official Jewish leadership” (I mean the communal leaders who have usurped the place of the Gedolim) have had one and only one message: enlightenment secularism.  Secularism, they have said, is best and fairest for everyone.  It is the only argument for freedom to observe the Torah, and it assures the same freedom for all other religions.  However, this is no longer true.  Over the past two and a half centuries enlightenment secularism has gone from being morally neutral to opposed to morality on principal, and now seeks to enforce immorality.

This post was inspired by a column in last week's Jewish Press hailing Sheldon Silver as a Jewish hero because of his consistent defense of “the rights of Jews as a minority group.”  For some reason this really struck me.  Torah observance has for decades and decades been defended as the “rights” of a “minority group.”  This is the only argument many, if not most, non-Jews have ever heard for Torah observance.  Jews can be free to observe Torah only when there are no religiously influenced laws, when a purely secular system prevails.  When governments treat religions as something objective, Jews suffer.  When governments treat religion as something subjective and private, something that does not belong in everyday reality—only then does Jewish life and observance thrive.

In other words: “If the Notzerim tell HIM he can't be gay, they'll tell YOU you can't be frum.”  Therefore the “Jewish position” is to defend the “rights” of “gays” so that Jews may also be free to observe Torah.  I assume it is along these lines that Sheldon Silver defends “the rights of Jews as a minority group”--as though Torah and mitzvot were some sort of decriminalized perversion, G-d forbid.

Now I admit that I am not an especially learned person.  I admit that I am a Noachide rather than a Jew.  I also admit that I am the product of a traditionally Xian ethno-culture.  You may certainly claim that my ideas are remnants of Xianity if you wish, but I simply wish to address and respond to this near total identification of Jewishness with secularism.  It is also important to admit that I am not a poseq   and have no authority, or the knowledge, to hold forth on the technicalities of the extremely complex details of the Halakhah concerning Jews and the Noachide Laws.  I'm just a person, a Noachide, who is tired of seeing and hearing everywhere one and only one defense of Judaism: “Hey, I can do whatever the h--- I want to.”

I'm just a simple person who grew up with a thoroughly Biblical “Jewish stereotype” in my mind who has had to confront the unfortunate fact that the rest of the world (and many Jews) define Jewishness as religious skepticism, opposition to any claims of objective religious truth, and the propagation of a totally secular ethic.  I admit that I was very naïve, but I don't see why all Jews should not be disturbed at the total inversion of the Jewish image during the past 250 years.

So here's my suggestion: Orthodox Jews can't control what the so-called “official Jewish leadership” do and say, but they can be more activist with regard to educating non-Jews about what Judaism really is.  They cannot stop the secularist crusades of the “official Jewish  Community,” but they can put forth an alternative strategy in contrast to it.  And that strategy is simply this: propagation of the Noachide Laws—not merely as an informal suggestion, but as a matter of policy in contrast to the negative policy of Jewish liberals.

Liberals have always argued that liberalism and secularism keep Jewish people safe.  But the identification of Jews and Judaism with militant secularism is certainly fraught with peril of its own, isn't it?  And certainly it constitutes a grave chillul HaShem.  So wouldn't a Noachide world be even safer for Jews, with none of the time bombs waiting to go off that secularism is loaded with?  I know that there are rabbis who argue against this, who maintain that quietism is the best policy, and they must certainly be respected.  But those who identify Judaism with nihilism are not quietists, and their work is unending.  If liberal Jews can constantly make demands of the non-Jewish population in the name of secularism and irreligion, certainly Torah Jews can at least get the message of the Noachide Laws out there.  And I'm not just talking about pamphlets.  I'm suggesting that Jewish dialogue with non-Jews should actually be centered around the Noachide Laws, and not “religious freedom.”

The simple fact is that technically, “religious freedom” as defined by the “enlightenment” does not exist.  The only “rights” we have are those that come from HaShem, which means there is no “right” to sin, or to practice false religions whose creation was forbidden in the first place.  Yet the thing that is most associated by non-Jews as the Jewish message is “religious freedom”--ie, the totally subjective nature of all religious claims.  Is this not a strange basis for defending the only religion that was founded publicly by G-d Himself rather than some human being claiming to speak for (or, chas veshalom, to “be”) G-d?

Earlier this year there was a horrible incident in a nearby city in which someone desecrated a holy Torah Scroll and prayer books.  Afterward the only thing one could hear or read in local media was that the perpetrator obviously didn't understand that in this country, there are no objective religious standards and that no one can tell anyone else what to believe or what to do.  THIS is a defense of Torah?  The “yoke of Heaven???”

Just as an example, I am going to bring up a group that, from our  perspective, is far removed from the Truth and not very nice: right wing “traditionalist” Catholics.  They are undeniably a minority group.  Yet they never justify their religious beliefs or practice by an appeal to “enlightenment” concepts, but rather by appealing to divine authority.  And in the name of that divine authority they actually critique the “enlightenment.”  Would not both Jewish and non-Jewish communities benefit if they were to hear Judaism defended and discussed in this way rather than the continual invocation of  Thomas Jefferson or Thomas Paine (or the anti-Semite Voltaire)?

Again, I am not advocating this as a Halakhic necessity because the Halakhot regarding Jews and the propagation and enforcement of the Noachide Laws are so complex.  But my opinion, as flimsy as it is, is that all would benefit if non-Jews were to be told that Judaism teaches that there IS an objective moral standard for all human beings and that this, and not “religious freedom,” is the goal we should all be aiming for.

Here is my concrete example of the change I am advocating.  Instead of merely fighting against the legislation of Catholic morality on abortion (and ceding the whole legal issue to secularism), Torah Jews would actually work for the enactment of legislation that would regulate abortion in accordance with Noachide Halakhah.  Again, technically this is a very complex issue, but if a small and vulnerable religious minority like (lehavdil) traditionalist Catholics can work for the legal recognition of their position, why is it unthinkable for Jews to do the same with regard to Noachide Law?  Instead of (as many Jewish conservatives do) arguing against “gay rights” from an eighteenth century American ideological foundation, why not simply condemn it objectively as contrary to the Universal Moral Norms which G-d has imposed on all mankind?

At this point I must interject something that was originally not part of this message, but which I am compelled to address.  I have just finished reading an article by Rabbi Michael J. Broyde in which, while maintaining the objective nature of Noachide Law, as a matter of pragmatic policy warns against attacking “gay rights” because of the negative consequences for the Torah community.  I have also read columns advising Torah Jews to stay out of the “culture wars” and not oppose the continuing collapse of moral norms for pretty much the same reason.  I am afraid that I simply do not understand why Jews must avoid controversy lest they antagonize the “gay” community while their counterparts in the secular and heretical Jewish communities have never missed an opportunity to harrass and antagonize the much more plentiful (and potentially much more dangerous) Xians on these same issues.

I have only one final point, alluded to earlier, and it is with regard to Torah Jews who feel the best way to fight cultural decay is with the ideologies of American constitutionalism and western civilizationism.  There are a great number of positive things about both the American Constitution and western civilization, but they are not from Heaven.  Both have weaknesses that led to the very situation in which we find ourselves today.  I personally believe that the “good old days” of either will never return because they are being judged and destroyed by HaShem in preparation for Mashiach HaMelekh, but even in the event of a full constitutional/civilizational restoration, it would be only a matter of time before the whole process of decay would start all over again.  To reiterate, Jewish culture warriors (I am arguing) need to promote the Noachide Laws as THE remedy to the current cesspool in which we find ourselves.

And that's pretty much the conclusion of what I wanted to say.  Thank you for reading.

Offline Southern Noachide

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Re: A proposal to radically reorder the Jewish dialogue with non-Jews
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2013, 08:43:08 PM »
Here is Rabbi Broyde's article, mentioned in my initial post:

http://www.jlaw.com/Articles/noach2.html

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: A proposal to radically reorder the Jewish dialogue with non-Jews
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2013, 08:44:51 PM »
PUT IN THE JUDAISM SECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline muman613

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Re: A proposal to radically reorder the Jewish dialogue with non-Jews
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2013, 08:54:09 PM »
Amen to this post Southern Noachide. You present many great ideas and provide many answers. I certainly agree that it is imperative for religious Jews to always try to influence their non-Jewish associates to embrace the Noachide laws and life-style. I consider myself an 'activist' Jew in that I do not hide my beliefs because I do not fear what people think about me. I speak clearly and do not pretend I support 'gay rights' as in a conversation with my Boss at work yesterday. I do not pretend I don't observe Shabbat even if people will think I am crazy in losing out on work which can be done. I wear my Kippah and Tzit-Tzits to work so that people will respect my culture and remember that I am working on being a representative of the righteous Jewish people.

So too does Chabad, in their kiruv to the non-Jewish world, always advises the gentiles in the laws of Noach. It is something the Rebbe (Lubavitch Rebbe Mendel Schneerson) was clear about.





You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: A proposal to radically reorder the Jewish dialogue with non-Jews
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2013, 09:03:24 PM »
 :nuke:
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline muman613

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Re: A proposal to radically reorder the Jewish dialogue with non-Jews
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2013, 09:06:11 PM »
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: A proposal to radically reorder the Jewish dialogue with non-Jews
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2013, 09:07:43 PM »
:nuke:

I do not think that this is offensive. The Noachide laws are the basis of all civilization and most JTF members would agree that Noachide laws are good for the world. I certainly do not think there is anything wrong in promoting this.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: A proposal to radically reorder the Jewish dialogue with non-Jews
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2013, 09:47:07 PM »
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Lisa

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Re: A proposal to radically reorder the Jewish dialogue with non-Jews
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2013, 10:41:12 PM »
Very interesting post Southern Noachide.  Nothing offensive about it either.

Offline Southern Noachide

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Re: A proposal to radically reorder the Jewish dialogue with non-Jews
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2013, 11:41:53 AM »
Thanks, everyone, for the kind words and for understanding.  As a former Xian I am always sensitive to the possibility that my ideas will simply be written off as "latent Xianity."  I am not trying to "save souls" here but to get Torah Jews to take a more active and visible role (in fact, the leading role) in the culture wars, not for "Xian civilization" or American traditions but for the honor of HaShem and His People.  It is disconcerting to see other religions taking Jewish morality and running with it when many Orthodox Jews today feel that Jewish activism in the current crisis is imprudent.

Judaism is a Theocratic religion--the only truly Theocratic religion in existence (false religions can never be true Theocracies), and the Jewish polity ordained at Sinai is the only truly Theocratic governance that has ever been or ever will be.  Yet we live in a world today where "Jewish Theocracy" is considered an oxymoron and where fighting "theocracy" is the number one Jewish priority.  There is something very wrong here, and it needs to be addressed.

Again, thanks to all of you for reading and to Chaim for providing this forum.