Author Topic: Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?  (Read 51782 times)

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Offline rafeli18

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Re: Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?
« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2013, 09:38:41 PM »
Heck yeah! Look at all the people that get rich from teaching and preaching their own version of the Bible... THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT G-D THEY CARE ABOUT THEMSELVES!

Isn't there are an American Mizrahi rabbi that "advises" Hilary [censored] Clinton, Michael Jackson?

Offline muman613

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Re: Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?
« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2013, 09:41:53 PM »
Shalom Rafeli18,

Welcome to JTF. It sounds to me like you have a genuine interest in Judaism. I think that is a great thing. You must ask yourself if you are ready to take on the entire 613 commandments as given to us through Moses at Mt Sinai. If you are converting it is essential, from a religious standpoint, to ensure that those converting are sincere in their desire to take on the lifestyle of Torah.

Let nobody fool you, it is more restrictive than you may think. You will want to learn about the laws of Kashrut, the laws of prayer (times and rituals involved including tallis and tefillin), the laws of family purity, the laws of the holidays and Shabbat. Of course during a conversion you will be introduced to all of these things slowly and with a chance to absorb it before being 'obligated' to them. Many Rabbis may try to dissuade you from making the conversion, and this is a good thing.

I do believe that some Chabads may provide you with an opportunity to learn about Jewish law and custom. I am involved with Chabad in my area and they are certainly open to all people who are genuinely interested in Jewish education, while they always first recommend non-Jews accept the seven Noachide laws.

So I look forward to speaking with you in the future.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?
« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2013, 09:43:47 PM »
I'm an 18 year old male. Like I mentioned in my earlier posts my father is halachically Jewish since his mother was jewish but she converted to Catholicism. Some people at my school are Jewish and I sometimes speak to them but I have a feelin they're not really religious.On the other hand my sister studied Hebrew and Politics so a lot of her friends are Jewish.
I have heard about Madonna and her mad escapades. Coorect me if I'm wrong but is kabbalah only a small part of the yeshiva lifestlye anyway? So, my main focus must be on judaism as a whole.

Pay no attention to the 'maddonas' we have no such thing in Judaism... She is a mockery of Jewish belief. Her desecration of all that is Jewish will cause her much distress in the next world...
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2013, 09:45:19 PM »
Isn't there are an American Mizrahi rabbi that "advises" Hilary [censored] Clinton, Michael Jackson?
I don't know, and if they do they are sellouts! The best Rabbi for America was the Lubavitch Rabbi. IMO.
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline rafeli18

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Re: Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?
« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2013, 09:47:24 PM »
I don't know, and if they do they are sellouts! The best Rabbi for America was the Lubavitch Rabbi. IMO.

Found him-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shmuley_Boteach

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline rafeli18

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Re: Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?
« Reply #31 on: July 14, 2013, 09:53:07 PM »
Okay I have you, but NO!
I've been reading about Meir Kahane. His ideas were good but people demonised him.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?
« Reply #32 on: July 14, 2013, 10:00:10 PM »
I've been reading about Meir Kahane. His ideas were good but people demonised him.
He told religious truth, and if you do that you are demonized!
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline rafeli18

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Re: Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?
« Reply #33 on: July 14, 2013, 10:02:13 PM »
He told religious truth, and if you do that you are demonized!
He was fair as well to the Arabs .They could leave or accept Hashem

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?
« Reply #34 on: July 14, 2013, 10:05:39 PM »
He was fair as well to the Arabs .They could leave or accept Hashem
Yes he was. And they should leave it's not their land. They only came for work after the Jews came back!
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline rafeli18

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Re: Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?
« Reply #35 on: July 14, 2013, 10:08:50 PM »
Yes he was. And they should leave it's not their land. They only came for work after the Jews came back!

Would he have accepted arab converts fully given the tensions?

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?
« Reply #36 on: July 14, 2013, 10:13:10 PM »
Would he have accepted arab converts ?
I can't speak for him... but I don't see why not, if they truly want and believe in Hashem, why not...
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline rafeli18

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Re: Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?
« Reply #37 on: July 14, 2013, 10:16:12 PM »
I can't speak for him... but I don't see why not, if they truly want and believe in Hashem, why not...

That's the difference between Judaism and Islam. It takes literally 2 minutes to convert and once you become a Mooslim you can't leave :o

Offline rafeli18

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Re: Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?
« Reply #38 on: July 14, 2013, 10:27:50 PM »
Shalom Rafeli18,

Welcome to JTF. It sounds to me like you have a genuine interest in Judaism. I think that is a great thing. You must ask yourself if you are ready to take on the entire 613 commandments as given to us through Moses at Mt Sinai. If you are converting it is essential, from a religious standpoint, to ensure that those converting are sincere in their desire to take on the lifestyle of Torah.

Let nobody fool you, it is more restrictive than you may think. You will want to learn about the laws of Kashrut, the laws of prayer (times and rituals involved including tallis and tefillin), the laws of family purity, the laws of the holidays and Shabbat. Of course during a conversion you will be introduced to all of these things slowly and with a chance to absorb it before being 'obligated' to them. Many Rabbis may try to dissuade you from making the conversion, and this is a good thing.

I do believe that some Chabads may provide you with an opportunity to learn about Jewish law and custom. I am involved with Chabad in my area and they are certainly open to all people who are genuinely interested in Jewish education, while they always first recommend non-Jews accept the seven Noachide laws.

So I look forward to speaking with you in the future.

Thank you for your kind words. My interest in Judaism has slowly increased over the years due to several factors.I admire the spirit of Judaism and the resilience of the Jewish people against such adversity. My grandmother was Jewish until she converted so there was some influence on my life but it was relatively minimal. I am aware of the 613 commandments from Hashem that maintain order and holiness. Whilst at such a early stage in my life I could make a rash decision I sincerely hope that my perseverance will shine through especially when faced with the 3 rejections scenario. I am currently reading Essential Judaism which is really insightful. Would you recommend any others? It's the holidays now so I have more free time.

Offline rafeli18

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Re: Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?
« Reply #39 on: July 14, 2013, 10:29:50 PM »
Pay no attention to the 'maddonas' we have no such thing in Judaism... She is a mockery of Jewish belief. Her desecration of all that is Jewish will cause her much distress in the next world...

She claims to be religious whilst posing half naked on stage. Chutzpah or what?
I do admire her humanitarian stance however but she's over the top

Offline muman613

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Re: Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?
« Reply #40 on: July 14, 2013, 10:32:31 PM »
Shalom Rafeli18,

Yes indeed Rabbi Kahane was a tzadik (Righteous Man) and he what he said was pure Torah truth. He did not mince his words, he spoke the truth from the hip, and knew that his words were the Torah of Moses from Sinai.

I am what is called a Baal Teshuva, a born Jew who went off the path during his mid life, and came back (Did Teshuva/Repentence/Return) to the faith of my forefathers. I have a long story about what brought me to do teshuva, but one thing was the fact that my brother was a victim of 9/11 (he worked in the WTC). That event, along with some other personal travesties, brought me to return, and accept an Orthodox lifestyle (which a bit of bumps and potholes along the way).

I find that the only answer to the haters, both the nazi Jew haters, and the islamic Jew haters, is to concentrate on our Torah, bettering ourselves, and being strong against all of our enemies and never backing down in the face of terrorism or threats. Jews can tap into untold Blessings from the Holy One, Blessed is he. We were promised this in the Torah, and my ten years of study of the Torah teach me that through our own betterment we can reap the rewards of this physical world, and at the same time we ensure our eternal world and reward.

If you would like to learn about a major focal point of the Torah, and the faith of Jews, you should begin by studying the history of the destruction of our Holy Temple. We are currently in a period just prior to the date, which is this Tuesday (starting Monday night), when both of our Temples were destroyed (first by the Babylonians and second by the Romans).

Jews who mark this occasion do not study any Torah except for the book of Lamentations, and other Talmud and Prophets portions which recall those very sad times.


You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline rafeli18

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Re: Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?
« Reply #41 on: July 14, 2013, 10:44:45 PM »
I'm sorry to hear of the tragic circumstances you went through.
I recall learning about the injustices of the destruction of Solomon's temple. I will certainly attempt to read The Book of Lamentations. I suppose in a sense these 2 events are symbolic of the steadfastness of the Jewish people. The ability to strive even after terror has struck. When I'm sometimes sad I listen to songs like Hava Nagila or Shalom Aleichem and the cadence motivates me to get on with my life. I guess it sounds really cliche but it's true.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?
« Reply #42 on: July 14, 2013, 10:49:58 PM »
She claims to be religious whilst posing half naked on stage. Chutzpah or what?
I do admire her humanitarian stance however but she's over the top
She went back to Catholic beliefs that copied early gnostic christian beliefs that were shut down by the Church, because they were to Jewish!
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?
« Reply #43 on: July 14, 2013, 10:54:15 PM »
I also have to add!  :::D

Rebuild the Temple!
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline rafeli18

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Re: Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?
« Reply #44 on: July 14, 2013, 10:59:13 PM »
She went back to Catholic beliefs that copied early gnostic christian beliefs that were shut down by the Church, because they were to Jewish!

Really ? Either she's doing it for attention or she's a bit mad :dance:


Offline muman613

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Re: Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?
« Reply #46 on: July 14, 2013, 11:09:56 PM »
I'm sorry to hear of the tragic circumstances you went through.
I recall learning about the injustices of the destruction of Solomon's temple. I will certainly attempt to read The Book of Lamentations. I suppose in a sense these 2 events are symbolic of the steadfastness of the Jewish people. The ability to strive even after terror has struck. When I'm sometimes sad I listen to songs like Hava Nagila or Shalom Aleichem and the cadence motivates me to get on with my life. I guess it sounds really cliche but it's true.

Thank you Rafeli18... I appreciate it.

We are currently working towards the rebuilding of the Temple. Us (I'm sorry if I'm talking for everyone) religious Zionists believe that the current state of Israel is a step toward the final redemption as prophesied by our Prophets of the Tanach. Even though there seem to be a lot of problems with the modern state of Israel, we see them as the travails which the Talmud spoke about in the period before the coming of the Moshiach (annointed king of Israel).

This is why I believe it is important to remember these calamities which befell us because of the various things which broke the close bonds we had with our 'father in heaven'. Judaism is a faith which believes that everything was created by the ONE G-d, creator of Heaven and Earth, and there is no force which he is not the master of. Thus we can see that even the so-called bad which has occured, there is a greater story which we will finally see when we reach the world to come. We will navigate these 'bad times' in the knowledge that ultimately we will witness the 'good times' of the redemption and we are responsible for being a part of that redemptive process.

The Kahanists and religious Zionists believe that we are working for the goal of the final redemption, when all Jews will unite in learning and teaching the Torah, and the world will accept the One G-d of Israel and want to connect through offerings, and Israel will be safe because all wicked nations will be destroyed. We are working with the political process , the natural process, in order to bring this about.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline kyel

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Re: Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?
« Reply #47 on: July 15, 2013, 04:27:58 AM »
Have you considered reading the Torah and Tanakh? It really does not take long to read if you do it every day

Offline rafeli18

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Re: Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?
« Reply #48 on: July 15, 2013, 05:31:21 AM »
Rafeli, in addition to learning the religion and language, it is also important for a potential convert to learn about Jewish history.  Here is a series of short videos which are a crash course in Jewish history for whenever you have time.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0FA8227766E8EC2E

Thanks, the videos seem quite concise so it'll be easier to fit in my schedule

Offline rafeli18

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Re: Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?
« Reply #49 on: July 15, 2013, 05:34:53 AM »
Have you considered reading the Torah and Tanakh? It really does not take long to read if you do it every day

Do you recommend any good online translations?