Author Topic: HELP! I want to explode! So much terrible news at once! Assimilation Blues  (Read 2660 times)

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Offline muman613

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I really should have stopped reading the news a few minutes earlier and I would have not read this story till tomorrow morning when I wake up (that would have been a bummer).... We, the Jewish people in galut, really need some help and fast. I can hear that 'sucking sound' getting closer and closer.... My faith tells me that a remnant of Jews will always survive, but my eyes and my heart feel a holocaust going on and my family has been a part of it.

I asked Hashem for forgiveness of my transgressions. But virtually my entire family has been decimated by assimilation. This is what happens only three generations in this country. Look at this report which makes me want to vomit...



http://www.israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2013/10/pew-poll-71-of-non-orthodox-us-jews.html

Pew poll: 71% of non-Orthodox US Jews intermarry

I should preface this post by saying that I don't know anything about any of the participants in the wedding ceremony and that they may or may not have anything to do with the story below.

A new Pew poll - the first on the subject in more than ten years - reports that 58% of American Jews and 71% of non-Orthodox American Jews are marrying out of the faith. Pew is calling it a major decline in Jewish identity.

The intermarriage rate, a bellwether statistic, has reached a high of 58 percent for all Jews, and 71 percent for non-Orthodox Jews — a huge change from before 1970 when only 17 percent of Jews married outside the faith. Two-thirds of Jews do not belong to a synagogue, one-fourth do not believe in God and one-third had a Christmas tree in their home last year.

“It’s a very grim portrait of the health of the American Jewish population in terms of their Jewish identification,” said Jack Wertheimer, a professor of American Jewish history at the Jewish Theological Seminary, in New York.

The survey, by the Pew Research Center’s Religion & Public Life Project, found that despite the declines in religious identity and participation, American Jews say they are proud to be Jewish and have a “strong sense of belonging to the Jewish people.”

While 69 percent say they feel an emotional attachment to Israel, and 40 percent believe that the land that is now Israel was “given to the Jewish people by God,” only 17 percent think that the continued building of settlements in the West Bank is helpful to Israel’s security.

...

“It’s very stark,” Alan Cooperman, deputy director of the Pew religion project, said in an interview. “Older Jews are Jews by religion. Younger Jews are Jews of no religion.”

The trend toward secularism is also happening in the American population in general, with increasing proportions of each generation claiming no religious affiliation.

But Jews without religion tend not to raise their children Jewish, so this secular trend has serious consequences for what Jewish leaders call “Jewish continuity.” Of the “Jews of no religion” who have children at home, two-thirds are not raising their children Jewish in any way. This is in contrast to the “Jews with religion,” of whom 93 percent said they are raising their children to have a Jewish identity.

Reform Judaism remains the largest American Jewish movement, at 35 percent. Conservative Jews are 18 percent, Orthodox 10 percent, and groups such as Reconstructionist and Jewish Renewal make up 6 percent combined. Thirty percent of Jews do not identify with any denomination.

In a surprising finding, 34 percent said you could still be Jewish if you believe that Jesus was the Messiah.   :'(

...

While earlier generations of Orthodox Jews defected in large numbers, those in the younger generation are being retained. Several scholars attributed this to the Orthodox marrying young, having large families and sending their children to Jewish schools.

Steven M. Cohen, a sociologist of American Jewry at Hebrew Union College-Jewish Institute of Religion, in New York, and a paid consultant on the poll, said the report foretold “a sharply declining non-Orthodox population in the second half of the 21st century, and a rising fraction of Jews who are Orthodox.”


That last paragraph is nothing I haven't told you about before. I've posted this chart many times:


In Israel, many people think we're immune from this sort of thing. We're not. First of all, an increasing number of Israeli Jewish girls are running off with, or being kidnapped by Arabs. A couple of weeks ago, I went to a fundraiser for a group that rescues Jewish girls - from across the religious spectrum - from Arab villages throughout Israel.

Second, if there is ever 'peace' with the Arabs, you can bet that intermarriage will increase if only because Arabs will have more access to Israeli society.

Third, secular Israelis often don't understand the difference between the different 'streams' of American Jews and can find themselves involved in relationships with those who are halachically (under Jewish law) non-Jewish.

The survey also portends “growing polarization” between religious and nonreligious Jews, said Laurence Kotler-Berkowitz, senior director of research and analysis at the Jewish Federations of North America.

The Jewish Federations has conducted major surveys of American Jews over many decades, but the last one in 2000 was mired in controversy over methodology. When the federations decided not to undertake another survey in 2010, Jane Eisner, editor in chief of The Jewish Daily Forward, urged the Pew researchers to jump in.

It was a multimillion-dollar effort to cull 3,475 respondents from a pool of 70,000. They were interviewed in English and Russian, on landlines and cellphones from Feb. 20 to June 13, 2013. The margin of error for the full sample is plus or minus three percentage points.
Ms. Eisner found the results “devastating” because, she said in an interview, “I thought there would be more American Jews who cared about religion.”

“This should serve as a wake-up call for all of us as Jews,” she said, “to think about what kind of community we’re going to be able to sustain if we have so much assimilation.”


So what is likely to sustain us for the coming generations is exactly what sustained us for the last 3,000 years: Torah, Torah and more Torah. Too bad Torah is under attack even in Israel today.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 02:42:45 AM by muman613 »
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline NoMosqueHere

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New Study: 58% of US Jews Intermarry - Rapid Assimilation Taking Place
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2013, 11:55:18 AM »
71% of non-orthodox intermarry.  25% don't believe in God -- personally I think this figure is low.   

See new study of US Jews discussed in NY Nazi Times: 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/01/us/poll-shows-major-shift-in-identity-of-us-jews.html?_r=0

Offline muman613

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Re: New Study: 58% of US Jews Intermarry - Rapid Assimilation Taking Place
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2013, 12:36:23 PM »
I lamented this news last night in this thread:

The rate is actually 70% of non-Orthodox Jews...

http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,71771.msg609657.html#msg609657

Oy Vey!

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Zelhar

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Re: New Study: 58% of US Jews Intermarry - Rapid Assimilation Taking Place
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2013, 01:16:21 PM »
Isn't it better that the self hating Jews would assimilate into oblivion ? First of all we already know from our history that self hating Jews ALWAYS end up wiped out (one way or another). Second, if they remain Jews each generation would likely be more self hating and more harmful to the good Jews. Third and last thought, what can we do about that anyway ?


* maybe a moderator can fuse this thread with the one which Muman had opened ?

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: New Study: 58% of US Jews Intermarry - Rapid Assimilation Taking Place
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2013, 02:24:57 PM »
The survey uses a wide definition of who is a Jew, a much-debated topic.

 Probably many of those people aren't even Jewish to begin with.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline muman613

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Re: New Study: 58% of US Jews Intermarry - Rapid Assimilation Taking Place
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2013, 03:58:11 PM »
Isn't it better that the self hating Jews would assimilate into oblivion ? First of all we already know from our history that self hating Jews ALWAYS end up wiped out (one way or another). Second, if they remain Jews each generation would likely be more self hating and more harmful to the good Jews. Third and last thought, what can we do about that anyway ?


* maybe a moderator can fuse this thread with the one which Muman had opened ?

You are quick to call all born Jews who are not educated with a Jewish education as self-hating Jews. They are not all self-hating (because they don't even know what it means to be Jewish).

We cannot lose more Jews to assimilation. This is why Kiruv is so important in this day...

Baruch Hashem my parents at least gave my brother and I Bar Mitzvah and a rudimentary Jewish education. If not for this I doubt I would have made Teshuva in 2003 and who knows where I might have ended up...

Unfortunately I remember my parents telling me not to marry a Svartze but they were not as insistent to marry a Jew...
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Zelhar

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Re: New Study: 58% of US Jews Intermarry - Rapid Assimilation Taking Place
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2013, 04:22:50 PM »
You are quick to call all born Jews who are not educated with a Jewish education as self-hating Jews. They are not all self-hating (because they don't even know what it means to be Jewish).

We cannot lose more Jews to assimilation. This is why Kiruv is so important in this day...

Baruch Hashem my parents at least gave my brother and I Bar Mitzvah and a rudimentary Jewish education. If not for this I doubt I would have made Teshuva in 2003 and who knows where I might have ended up...

Unfortunately I remember my parents telling me not to marry a Svartze but they were not as insistent to marry a Jew...
I don't call Jews self hating just because they intermarry and have gentile offspring, it's definitely leading to assimilation and decrease in our ranks. What I wanted to say is that I don't think it is bad that all the self hating Jews will assimilate and leave the Jewish people. Because when they hang around as Jews it's more likely to cause us more harm then good. They support the extermination of Israel and form organizations like J-street and peace now for this purpose. Is it wrong of me to want these self hating kapos to leave the Jewish people ?

Offline NoMosqueHere

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Re: New Study: 58% of US Jews Intermarry - Rapid Assimilation Taking Place
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2013, 05:10:05 PM »
To some extent, holocaust education has backfired on the jewish people. 

The holocaust was so horrifying that many younger jews simply cannot process it with a healthy perspective, but rather they seek a way to escape from being jewish altogether.  Also, they feel beleaguered by the relentless war against Israel by the left, which they feel is their natural political home.   They don't want to convert (too much of a betrayal), so they intermarry, which is a passive/aggressive way of saying "adios" to their jewish identity. 

There are other causes of jewish alienation, but I have always felt the traumatic impact of the holocaust on subsequent generations of jews is underestimated. 
"
« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 05:31:11 PM by NoMosqueHere »

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: New Study: 58% of US Jews Intermarry - Rapid Assimilation Taking Place
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2013, 05:21:04 PM »
The survey uses a wide definition of who is a Jew, a much-debated topic.

 Probably many of those people aren't even Jewish to begin with.
Agreed.

Offline muman613

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Re: New Study: 58% of US Jews Intermarry - Rapid Assimilation Taking Place
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2013, 05:35:25 PM »
I don't call Jews self hating just because they intermarry and have gentile offspring, it's definitely leading to assimilation and decrease in our ranks. What I wanted to say is that I don't think it is bad that all the self hating Jews will assimilate and leave the Jewish people. Because when they hang around as Jews it's more likely to cause us more harm then good. They support the extermination of Israel and form organizations like J-street and peace now for this purpose. Is it wrong of me to want these self hating kapos to leave the Jewish people ?

Self-hating erev rav can and should assimilate to spare us the hardship. They certainly do more damage than our enemies. But my point is that we should not be quick to push away Jews who can actually be turned around and returned to the 'derech'...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: New Study: 58% of US Jews Intermarry - Rapid Assimilation Taking Place
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2013, 05:36:39 PM »
It's hard to call a Jew self-hating who knows nothing about himself or Judaism. I can say that ignorance is deadly, and Jews who do not want to tell deformers that their athiest religion is a lie and that it has nothing to do with Judaism, and they are not following anything to do with Judaism, in order not to offend them, is like one who refuses to tell someone not to walk off a cliff because it might scare them, and they might be angry at you for pointing it out.
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Offline briann

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Re: New Study: 58% of US Jews Intermarry - Rapid Assimilation Taking Place
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2013, 08:37:56 PM »
oh wow!!!  Yikes....
To some extent, holocaust education has backfired on the jewish people. 

The holocaust was so horrifying that many younger jews simply cannot process it with a healthy perspective, but rather they seek a way to escape from being jewish altogether.  Also, they feel beleaguered by the relentless war against Israel by the left, which they feel is their natural political home.   They don't want to convert (too much of a betrayal), so they intermarry, which is a passive/aggressive way of saying "adios" to their jewish identity. 

There are other causes of jewish alienation, but I have always felt the traumatic impact of the holocaust on subsequent generations of jews is underestimated. 
"


I actually agree with this sentiment.... what Hitler did was not just kill off half of the Jews... he made the majority of the surviving ones feel  like they needed to be as 'progressive' and 'self-hating' as possible.     The Jews reacted by saying.... we need to just be more tolerant and give peace a chance.... rather than saying..... 'We shoulda killed more Nazi's'.

Offline muman613

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Re: New Study: 58% of US Jews Intermarry - Rapid Assimilation Taking Place
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2013, 08:49:13 PM »
oh wow!!!  Yikes....

I actually agree with this sentiment.... what Hitler did was not just kill off half of the Jews... he made the majority of the surviving ones feel  like they needed to be as 'progressive' and 'self-hating' as possible.     The Jews reacted by saying.... we need to just be more tolerant and give peace a chance.... rather than saying..... 'We shoulda killed more Nazi's'.

I actually disagree with you on this. I think that the Holocaust has not been taught enough, or in the correct manner. It is the liberal leftists who make Holocaust studies an opportunity to foist multiculturalism on the masses. If the Holcaust was taught in the proper manner, that it was a calculated attack against the Jewish people and all that we stand for rather than just a case of 'racism' or 'hatred' then we would begin to see Jews who are proud of our heritage. They have hijacked the name of Anne Frank already, using it to teach multiculturalism in the classroom. Most kids walk away from it saying that the Jews were not the only ones who were harmed in this event (though 2/3 of European Jewry was destroyed). The lesson is that we just have to accept one another, rather than we must stand up against evil...

In the years after the war the Jewish people had a great re-birth of Torah and Mitzvot... It was those early years when the horror of the Holocaust was still on the minds of the Jewish people.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline briann

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Re: New Study: 58% of US Jews Intermarry - Rapid Assimilation Taking Place
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2013, 09:06:15 PM »
I actually disagree with you on this. I think that the Holocaust has not been taught enough, or in the correct manner. It is the liberal leftists who make Holocaust studies an opportunity to foist multiculturalism on the masses. If the Holcaust was taught in the proper manner, that it was a calculated attack against the Jewish people and all that we stand for rather than just a case of 'racism' or 'hatred' then we would begin to see Jews who are proud of our heritage. They have hijacked the name of Anne Frank already, using it to teach multiculturalism in the classroom. Most kids walk away from it saying that the Jews were not the only ones who were harmed in this event (though 2/3 of European Jewry was destroyed). The lesson is that we just have to accept one another, rather than we must stand up against evil...

In the years after the war the Jewish people had a great re-birth of Torah and Mitzvot... It was those early years when the horror of the Holocaust was still on the minds of the Jewish people.

I agree that, that is how a Jew should react... but I have seen the opposite in my family... and its not from a lack of knowledge of the past... not at all.... they are all extremely knowledgeable on history.... and the horrors of the holocaust.

But there is such a HUGE change from my grandparents generation to my parents generation..... its as if..... everyone in my family who grew up after WWII has become extreme hard-core leftists... and everyone who grew up before was conservative...  I just had a family reunion and was reminded of this again...  I am really a bit of a crypyo-conservative with my family... because if I say anything anti-islam or even worse (anti-obama) and they will all gang up on me.

Offline muman613

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Re: New Study: 58% of US Jews Intermarry - Rapid Assimilation Taking Place
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2013, 10:01:51 PM »
I agree that, that is how a Jew should react... but I have seen the opposite in my family... and its not from a lack of knowledge of the past... not at all.... they are all extremely knowledgeable on history.... and the horrors of the holocaust.

But there is such a HUGE change from my grandparents generation to my parents generation..... its as if..... everyone in my family who grew up after WWII has become extreme hard-core leftists... and everyone who grew up before was conservative...  I just had a family reunion and was reminded of this again...  I am really a bit of a crypyo-conservative with my family... because if I say anything anti-islam or even worse (anti-obama) and they will all gang up on me.

I feel your pain Briann... But due to my families loss in 9/11 I can understand how my mother (who used to be such a lefty) has become much more conservative over the years. She is one of the most anti-Obama, anti-Islam people I know. Nothing we say about Obama here at JTF would surprise my mother. My father (OBM) was a lifelong conservative (voted Republican his entire life and defended Nixon till the end).

Baruch Hashem I can talk with my mother about politics and not become upset (as I used to when talking to her).

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline The Noachide

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Re: New Study: 58% of US Jews Intermarry - Rapid Assimilation Taking Place
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2013, 10:12:43 PM »
Intermarriage is a serious disaster. 70%+ is a big chunk. It's like mixing monotheism with idolatry beliefs.

Offline Lisa

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Re: New Study: 58% of US Jews Intermarry - Rapid Assimilation Taking Place
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2013, 10:17:08 PM »
To some extent, holocaust education has backfired on the jewish people. 

The holocaust was so horrifying that many younger jews simply cannot process it with a healthy perspective, but rather they seek a way to escape from being jewish altogether.  Also, they feel beleaguered by the relentless war against Israel by the left, which they feel is their natural political home.   They don't want to convert (too much of a betrayal), so they intermarry, which is a passive/aggressive way of saying "adios" to their jewish identity. 

There are other causes of jewish alienation, but I have always felt the traumatic impact of the holocaust on subsequent generations of jews is underestimated. 
"

So how do you think young Jews should be taught about the Holocaust that is not being taught currently?

Offline The Noachide

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Re: HELP! I want to explode! So much terrible news at once! Assimilation Blues
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2013, 10:21:43 PM »
Those findings are shocking for the Jewish nation SMH. High rise in atheism has risen over the last 10 years even among muslims.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: New Study: 58% of US Jews Intermarry - Rapid Assimilation Taking Place
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2013, 10:45:47 PM »
I agree that, that is how a Jew should react... but I have seen the opposite in my family... and its not from a lack of knowledge of the past... not at all.... they are all extremely knowledgeable on history.... and the horrors of the holocaust.

But there is such a HUGE change from my grandparents generation to my parents generation..... its as if..... everyone in my family who grew up after WWII has become extreme hard-core leftists... and everyone who grew up before was conservative...  I just had a family reunion and was reminded of this again...  I am really a bit of a crypyo-conservative with my family... because if I say anything anti-islam or even worse (anti-obama) and they will all gang up on me.
The Democrats have been able to brainwash relatively new Americans, by their bullshiite and their"we care about the little man"?

My Grandmother (a Czech American ) still thought the Democrats represented her, although, everything that comes out of her mouth is conservative.
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: HELP! I want to explode! So much terrible news at once! Assimilation Blues
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2013, 05:30:28 AM »
I'm in the same boat as you Muman, as just barely escaped the deadly clutches of ignorance and lies myself, before a perfect storm as what I couldn't see as catastrophes without Judaism. If I ever get money, I'm going to bring Jews to Israel and pay for Torah study as a hobby.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline NoMosqueHere

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Re: New Study: 58% of US Jews Intermarry - Rapid Assimilation Taking Place
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2013, 06:10:55 AM »
So how do you think young Jews should be taught about the Holocaust that is not being taught currently?

I don't know exactly.  I don't have the answers.

But I liked Rabbi Kahane's slogan: Every Jew a 22.   So, Jewish education, at minimum, should include serious instruction in martial arts and gun use.   But I realize this will never happen. 

Anyway, the damage was done with the murder of 6 million and the non response from american jews who could have done SOMETHING to try to stop it.   The cowardly, disgraceful, and evil jewish non response to the holocaust, as it was taking place, is something young jews have been profoundly confused and embarrassed by.  So much so that they no longer want to be jewish, and they see a way out through intermarriage, which is less of an outright betrayal than conversion to christianity.  The holocaust is like a nightmare from which you won't awake and there are no good answers.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 06:40:42 AM by NoMosqueHere »

Offline NoMosqueHere

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Re: HELP! I want to explode! So much terrible news at once! Assimilation Blues
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2013, 06:51:17 AM »
I am really concerned about the many new "half jews" who will be coming down the pike.  I use the term "half jews" as a convenient legal fiction for the children resulting from the intermarriages.  I realize there are no half jews under jewish law, ok?  Please don't yell at me. LOL. 

Anyway, I fear many of the half jews will emerge as potent enemies of Israel and the jewish people. For example, in attempts to prove they are not really jewish, some half jews may be particularly aggressive, nasty advocates against reasonable Israeli security measures if not outright nazis. 

On the other hand, some of these half jews may become righteous jews or gentiles.  Should there not be some sort of outreach to these half jews?   I don't know; it's getting complicated.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 10:44:21 AM by NoMosqueHere »

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: New Study: 58% of US Jews Intermarry - Rapid Assimilation Taking Place
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2013, 12:42:52 PM »
I don't know exactly.  I don't have the answers.

But I liked Rabbi Kahane's slogan: Every Jew a 22.   So, Jewish education, at minimum, should include serious instruction in martial arts and gun use.   But I realize this will never happen. 

Anyway, the damage was done with the murder of 6 million and the non response from american jews who could have done SOMETHING to try to stop it.   The cowardly, disgraceful, and evil jewish non response to the holocaust, as it was taking place, is something young jews have been profoundly confused and embarrassed by.  So much so that they no longer want to be jewish, and they see a way out through intermarriage, which is less of an outright betrayal than conversion to christianity.  The holocaust is like a nightmare from which you won't awake and there are no good answers.

One day G-d willing, we will get weapons training in school, as in Amercian schools once upon a time.

At any rate, there was a response from people like Jabotinsky, so it's not the evil Jewish response, it's a bunch of liberals who happened to be born Jews and typically identify with atheism over their religion. Some people were also smart and got out. I really also could not conceive someone looking to get out of Judaism by intermarrying. They don't get out anyways, so they'd be doing it for their kids, not themselves, and if someone gets themselves to the point where they're actually considering intermarriage, and don't necessarily have a girlfriend, but are think that it's a way to leave Judiasm are almost 100% likely, if they exist, to have already stopped practicing Judaism. I think the comparison between serving other "G-ds" and making your children serve other "G-ds" would be a pretty depressing thing to think about, so if that came into his mind to when he was making a decision, this would be 1 Jew doing once or twice in history, who is also very ignorant, so it would most likely have been a Jew that was trying to get away from the people around him or her, and didn't have money just to leave themselves.

And we did awake from the holocaust and beat the Arabs, and there are plenty of answers that you may or may not want to hear, it's just that the traitors running the establishment in Israel seem to want it back.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Super Mentalita

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Re: HELP! I want to explode! So much terrible news at once! Assimilation Blues
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2013, 02:40:13 PM »
As a non-Jew i cannot say to much on this subject, but i think we as a people are in danger. I think danger is everywhere, and we as a people should fight the thread of Islam. Myself i'am a Protestant, but i don't realy consern about how many are using the strict rules and how many are doing there thing on there own modern way. I believe people should believe in there God, and vote for the right kind of political party's and speak out the truth. I see your point, and i think more and more people (Jews and Christians) are losing faith and forget there own roots and traditions.
''At the siege of Vienna in 1683 Islam seemed poised to overrun Christian Europe.
We are in a new phase of a very old war.''

Offline Super Mentalita

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Re: HELP! I want to explode! So much terrible news at once! Assimilation Blues
« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2013, 02:42:31 PM »
I am really concerned about the many new "half jews" who will be coming down the pike.  I use the term "half jews" as a convenient legal fiction for the children resulting from the intermarriages.  I realize there are no half jews under jewish law, ok?  Please don't yell at me. LOL. 

Anyway, I fear many of the half jews will emerge as potent enemies of Israel and the jewish people. For example, in attempts to prove they are not really jewish, some half jews may be particularly aggressive, nasty advocates against reasonable Israeli security measures if not outright nazis. 

On the other hand, some of these half jews may become righteous jews or gentiles.  Should there not be some sort of outreach to these half jews?   I don't know; it's getting complicated.

There you have some good points.
''At the siege of Vienna in 1683 Islam seemed poised to overrun Christian Europe.
We are in a new phase of a very old war.''