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The Tribe of Dinah.
Ephraim Ben Noach:
Sorry, but it has been driving me nuts since Chaim mentioned The 13th Tribe... Any thoughts and info?
Tag-MehirTzedek:
--- Quote from: אפרים בן נח on November 05, 2013, 09:34:26 PM ---Sorry, but it has been driving me nuts since Chaim mentioned The 13th Tribe... Any thoughts and info?
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LOL nice, thanks for reminding me. I would like to have someone ask Chaim on this for the coming up show. Never heard of it before, but from the little that I know I believe (at least its probably a Medrash) that Dina should have been a male, but because Rachel only had 1 child (I think her mother) prayed that she have a girl instead of a boy soo her sister Rachel could have 2 children from who'm will be 2 tribes (technically you can also say 3 since Yosef divided up into Ephraim and Menashe + Benyamin).
Ephraim Ben Noach:
--- Quote from: Tag-MehirTzedek on November 05, 2013, 10:47:19 PM ---LOL nice, thanks for reminding me. I would like to have someone ask Chaim on this for the coming up show. Never heard of it before, but from the little that I know I believe (at least its probably a Medrash) that Dina should have been a male, but because Rachel only had 1 child (I think her mother) prayed that she have a girl instead of a boy soo her sister Rachel could have 2 children from who'm will be 2 tribes (technically you can also say 3 since Yosef divided up into Ephraim and Menashe + Benyamin).
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Reread what you wrote, you totally confused me... I did ask Chaim though.
muman613:
I believe Tag is correct...
Dinah was supposed to be a boy...
muman613:
Actually Tag I found a Gemara in the Talmud (not just Medresh) Berachot 60a:
--- Quote ---http://halakhah.com/berakoth/berakoth_60.html
IF A MAN'S WIFE IS PREGNANT AND HE SAYS, MAY [GOD] GRANT THAT MY WIFE BEAR etc. THIS IS A VAIN PRAYER. Are prayers then [in such circumstances] of no avail? R. Joseph cited the following in objection: And afterwards she bore a daughter and called her name Dinah.8 What is meant by 'afterwards'? Rab said: After Leah had passed judgment on herself, saying, 'Twelve tribes are destined to issue from Jacob. Six have issued from me and four from the handmaids, making ten. If this child will be a male, my sister Rachel will not be equal to one of the handmaids'. Forthwith the child was turned to a girl, as it says, And she called her name Dinah!9 — We cannot cite a miraculous event [in refutation of the Mishnah]. Alternatively I may reply that the incident of Leah occurred within forty days [after conception], according to what has been taught: Within the first three days a man should pray that the seed should not putrefy; from the third to the fortieth day he should pray that the child should be a male; from the fortieth day to three months he should pray that it should not be a sandal;10 from three months to six months he should pray that it should not be still-born; from six months to nine months he should pray for a safe delivery. But does such a prayer11 avail? Has not R. Isaac the son of R. Ammi said: If the man first emits seed, the child will be a girl; if the woman first emits seed, the child will be a boy?12 — With what case are we dealing here? If, for instance, they both emitted seed at the same time.
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