Ask JTF for November 10, 2013 is ready, baruch Hashem

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

בס''ד

The program is 1 hour and 19 minutes this week:



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[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Thank you, Chaim.

[TruthSpreader]

Thank you, Chaim.

[Joe Gutfeld]

Thank you Chaim.  Chicago Jew, I was the one who asked Chaim on the movie Cast a Gaint Shadow and Exodus about a couple of months ago.

[Debbie Shafer]

Just wanted to let JTF know, I have been with you for 4 or 5 years, maybe longer. I have cared about everyone and contributed.  I am wondering how it is fair to ban someone for their religious beliefs.   The Pharisees, Sadducees, and Caiaphas also rejected Jesus as the Cornerstone, the Messiah, they believed in the law...but the law will not save any of us.   (There is one way to the father through the son.)   Jesus is the Cornerstone that the builders rejected.   One of the clearest signs of ancient Israel falling away from God was its abandonment of morality, and abortions.  In January, Obama gave the first ever presidential inaugural speech mentioning homosexuality and ending the Defense of Marriage act. This opens the door for every kind of incestuous and adulterous group...another sin which God detests.  America is now on the path to destruction, this is a parallel with ancient Israel.  History is repeating itself.  Thanks for hearing my voice, I won't trouble you any longer. 

[Binyamin Yisrael]

Just wanted to let JTF know, I have been with you for 4 or 5 years, maybe longer. I have cared about everyone and contributed.  I am wondering how it is fair to ban someone for their religious beliefs.   The Pharisees, Sadducees, and Caiaphas also rejected Jesus as the Cornerstone, the Messiah, they believed in the law...but the law will not save any of us.   (There is one way to the father through the son.)   Jesus is the Cornerstone that the builders rejected.   One of the clearest signs of ancient Israel falling away from God was its abandonment of morality, and abortions.  In January, Obama gave the first ever presidential inaugural speech mentioning homosexuality and ending the Defense of Marriage act. This opens the door for every kind of incestuous and adulterous group...another sin which God detests.  America is now on the path to destruction, this is a parallel with ancient Israel.  History is repeating itself.  Thanks for hearing my voice, I won't trouble you any longer.

Jesus has nothing to do with the fall of Ancient Israel in the First Temple Period and nothing to do with the fall of Ancient Israel in the Second Temple Period either. If anything, if Jews had accepted Jesus it would have hastened the Destruction of the Temple. The First Temple was destroyed for the sins of idolatry, murder, and sexual immorality. Jews accepting Jesus would fall under idolatry even though Jesus didn't exist until more than 500 years later. The Second Temple was destroyed for baseless hatred. The infighting of Jewish groups back then contributed to the Destruction. One of the Jewish groups back then were the earlier Christians who were like J4Js.

[Zelhar]

Just wanted to let JTF know, I have been with you for 4 or 5 years, maybe longer. I have cared about everyone and contributed.  I am wondering how it is fair to ban someone for their religious beliefs.   The Pharisees, Sadducees, and Caiaphas also rejected Jesus as the Cornerstone, the Messiah, they believed in the law...but the law will not save any of us.   (There is one way to the father through the son.)   Jesus is the Cornerstone that the builders rejected.   One of the clearest signs of ancient Israel falling away from God was its abandonment of morality, and abortions.  In January, Obama gave the first ever presidential inaugural speech mentioning homosexuality and ending the Defense of Marriage act. This opens the door for every kind of incestuous and adulterous group...another sin which God detests.  America is now on the path to destruction, this is a parallel with ancient Israel.  History is repeating itself.  Thanks for hearing my voice, I won't trouble you any longer.

I want to suggest you look up a new evangelical church called "United Christians For Mo". They are fully Evangelical Christians that believe Muhammad was the last and final prophet, so they also follow the Quran and the Shariah. But they are Christians really, they wear crosses and they have organ and choir in their church... they are Christians really, no seriously, they are Christians who just love and worship Jesus AND the prophet Muhammad BPUH.

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

Just wanted to let JTF know, I have been with you for 4 or 5 years, maybe longer. I have cared about everyone and contributed.  I am wondering how it is fair to ban someone for their religious beliefs.   The Pharisees, Sadducees, and Caiaphas also rejected Jesus as the Cornerstone, the Messiah, they believed in the law...but the law will not save any of us.   (There is one way to the father through the son.)   Jesus is the Cornerstone that the builders rejected.   One of the clearest signs of ancient Israel falling away from God was its abandonment of morality, and abortions.  In January, Obama gave the first ever presidential inaugural speech mentioning homosexuality and ending the Defense of Marriage act. This opens the door for every kind of incestuous and adulterous group...another sin which God detests.  America is now on the path to destruction, this is a parallel with ancient Israel.  History is repeating itself.  Thanks for hearing my voice, I won't trouble you any longer.

בס''ד

Debbie, it is true that you have been with us for years. But you know that we have a rule on this forum against any missionary activity.

You say that the law (the Torah) will not save any of us. Really? Then how were people saved before Jesus? Are you claiming that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Aaron, Joshua, Samson, Samuel, David, Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel were not "saved"? They believed in the Torah, which you call the law. G-d told them to obey His commandments and live by His laws and they did. Are suggesting that these great prophets of G-d did not know what they were doing?

This covenant that G-d made with Israel to obey His Torah is eternal. "Forever remember His covenant, the word which He commanded to a thousand generations. Which He cut with Abraham and His oath to Isaac. And He established it as a law for Jacob, and for Israel an eternal covenant" (Chronicles I 16: 15-17). Debbie, this law, this Torah is eternal. That's why after thousands of years G-d is returning the Jewish people to their ancient homeland with breathtaking miracles.

I am not attacking your religious beliefs because I do not believe that you have to be Jewish to earn a place in the next world, the world of eternal life. But saying that we cannot be "saved" unless we abandon Torah Judaism and convert to another religion is an attack on our faith. By delegitimizing the Torah law that G-d gave us as an eternal covenant, by delegitimizing the Torah law of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses and David, by delegitimizing the Torah law that kept us alive as a people during thousands of years of the most brutal genocide and torture - you are forcing us to defend our faith.

I know that you are a good person. I know that you sincerely support Israel. But Jews and Christians should be working together against the forces of evil in this world. That cannot happen unless we respect each other's different beliefs.

[The Noachide]

Good audio program.
I did my fair share of research on Christianity before becoming a Noahide and for the sake of argument, there's no way I can accept the Gospels (NT) for many reasons.
But it does not mean both Christians and Jews cannot co-exist.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

בס''ד

Debbie, it is true that you have been with us for years. But you know that we have a rule on this forum against any missionary activity.

You say that the law (the Torah) will not save any of us. Really? Then how were people saved before Jesus? Are you claiming that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Aaron, Joshua, Samson, Samuel, David, Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel were not "saved"? They believed in the Torah, which you call the law. G-d told them to obey His commandments and live by His laws and they did. Are suggesting that these great prophets of G-d did not know what they were doing?

This covenant that G-d made with Israel to obey His Torah is eternal. "Forever remember His covenant, the word which He commanded to a thousand generations. Which He cut with Abraham and His oath to Isaac. And He established it as a law for Jacob, and for Israel an eternal covenant" (Chronicles I 16: 15-17). Debbie, this law, this Torah is eternal. That's why after thousands of years G-d is returning the Jewish people to their ancient homeland with breathtaking miracles.

I am not attacking your religious beliefs because I do not believe that you have to be Jewish to earn a place in the next world, the world of eternal life. But saying that we cannot be "saved" unless we abandon Torah Judaism and convert to another religion is an attack on our faith. By delegitimizing the Torah law that G-d gave us as an eternal covenant, by delegitimizing the Torah law of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses and David, by delegitimizing the Torah law that keep us alive as a people during thousands of years of the most brutal genocide and torture - you are forcing us to defend our faith.

I know that you are a good person. I know that you sincerely support Israel. But Jews and Christians should be working together against the forces of evil in this world. That cannot happen unless we respect each other's different beliefs.

Excellent way of handling this, Chaim. I like Debbie a lot and I hate to see her go, but posts by either Christians or Jews urging the other to convert are very bad for our movement. I hope she reads this and stays.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

  Listened answer to my question, I don't understand how and why you attacked Shas type Yeshivot in particular out of all of them (The Haredi) when Shas is probably the most "right-wing", anti-Arab. The others I would suspect are much more pacifistic and such. Also in a Shas type of institution you would probably hear them saying something like the Arabs will one day be our slaves and such as opposed to the others.


 Also they are integrated with the rest of Israel a lot more than most of the other Haredim some of which don't want any connection.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

  Listened answer to my question, I don't understand how and why you attacked Shas type Yeshivot in particular out of all of them (The Haredi) when Shas is probably the most "right-wing", anti-Arab. The others I would suspect are much more pacifistic and such. Also in a Shas type of institution you would probably hear them saying something like the Arabs will one day be our slaves and such as opposed to the others.


 Also they are integrated with the rest of Israel a lot more than most of the other Haredim some of which don't want any connection.

A Shas school is one that is accepting welfare money from the Israeli government, money that came from the leader of Shas supporting evil governmental decisions in exchange for such.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

A Shas school is one that is accepting welfare money from the Israeli government, money that came from the leader of Shas supporting evil governmental decisions in exchange for such.

 Soo? As are secular schools, as are Religious-Zionists and other (most) Haredim as well. Basically almost every school is.  And about sending children to school I would probably send my child to a Shas school then to a secular school with leftist/secular teachers. But if given the choice better to a Religious Zionist school, both because the ideology and because they have more $ and not as poorly funded and run.

 And its not welfare. It is like you paying in for social security. When you take the money out of it, it isn't you relying on charity but taking what is yours (and in reality probably more, and that is why the system is going bankrupt, but anyway you get the point), people vote and people get rights to take their share of the goods in society.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Soo? As are secular schools, as are Religious-Zionists and other (most) Haredim as well.

As a general rule, I think government should butt out of the educational system.

Basically almost every school is.  And about sending children to school I would probably send my child to a Shas school then to a secular school with leftist/secular teachers.

That would be like me being asked if I would rather send my child to a California public school or a Lutheran or Presbyterian replacement-theology "Christian" school. If I had only those two options I would seek to homeschool my kids.

But if given the choice better to a Religious Zionist school, both because the ideology and because they have more $ and not as poorly funded and run.

Shas and Agudah schools are not Zionist schools, and the Israeli government does not fund religious nationalist or Kahanist schools.

And its not welfare. It is like you paying in for social security. When you take the money out of it, it isn't you relying on charity but taking what is yours (and in reality probably more, and that is why the system is going bankrupt, but anyway you get the point), people vote and people get rights to take their share of the goods in society.

I don't support Social Security at all. It should be strictly voluntary. It is a big fancy way to have a tax and redistribute the wealth of working Americans to crack addicts and leeches.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Shas and Agudah schools are not Zionist schools, and the Israeli government does not fund religious nationalist or Kahanist schools.
I don't support Social Security at all. It should be strictly voluntary. It is a big fancy way to have a tax and redistribute the wealth of working Americans to crack addicts and leeches.

 Shas is more "Zionist" for sure. Aguda different story, I wouldn't and don't know about them to comment properly.
  Religious Nationalist schools are also funded by the government. Their are different schools and different arrangements within different communities, schools etc. Some pay (add) a little more money for the education, not that much (certainly nothing compared to U.S. Jews that both pay taxes AND pay for private Yeshiva education).
 But their certainly are Religious Zionist schools, some more Mamlachti, others Hardali or just Religious Zionists sending their kids to Haredi schools but also teaching them Religious Zionism (The Rav Kahane type) at home.

- You don't support it, yet you and I know when the time comes (if their will be any money available) you certainly would take from it. Or would you refuse to take Social security because you disagree with it?

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Shas is more "Zionist" for sure. Aguda different story, I wouldn't and don't know about them to comment properly.

Chaim says they are the same, just Mizrachic and Ashkenazic versions of the same thing. But to address Shas calling itself "Zionist"--so do the vast majority of Israelis, and it doesn't mean much. All of the Nazis and kapos that support ethnic cleansing and the "two-state" genocide claim to be Zionists. Actions speak louder than words.

Religious Nationalist schools are also funded by the government. Their are different schools and different arrangements within different communities, schools etc. Some pay (add) a little more money for the education, not that much (certainly nothing compared to U.S. Jews that both pay taxes AND pay for private Yeshiva education).

But how sincerely "religious nationalist" are these schools? Chaim has said that they haev to be Mamlachti--they have to kiss the Israeli government's tuchis. I think that so-called religious right wingers that command their audience to obey the Israeli (Nazi) regime are more dangerous than open and straightforward Nazis like Livni and Peres.

But their certainly are Religious Zionist schools, some more Mamlachti, others Hardali or just Religious Zionists sending their kids to Haredi schools but also teaching them Religious Zionism (The Rav Kahane type) at home.

If such are available, I'd rather send my kids to one of those than a Shas school (well, a Mamlachti school would be just as bad).

You don't support it, yet you and I know when the time comes (if their will be any money available) you certainly would take from it. Or would you refuse to take Social security because you disagree with it?

That money was earned through the blood, sweat, and tears of the American people to do with as they wish.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

That money was earned through the blood, sweat, and tears of the American people to do with as they wish.

 And the money for the Schools was and is also part of the Jewish people and people do send their children to the schools they wish. And just as it would be absurd for me to tell you not to take money from Social Security because it is your money it is also absurd for you to say that people cannot take money for their schools and the schools they send their children to. It might not be the ideal system and their perhaps can (or should) be a new and better system but the reality is that their are people, their are their children that need to be in school. To open up private schools is possible but very hard and get's harder to support when having more children especially. Soo they use up the money available as available to all (actually a lot less since "Haredi" schools spend about 1/4 of what a child in secular school needs to be supported for).

  Soo its not a "shake down" and such, its taking one's share in the pot, just as you would take Social Security benefits and would (or do) probably send your kids to public schools that use tax payers money. Or use the roads that also were paid by tax payers.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I don't see a double standard in it. My philosophy is that taxation should be as minimal as possible and that government involvement in society (including education) should be the same, at least for the United States. I know the situation isn't quite the same as it is in Israel because Israel has (or more accurately, should have) a vested interest in the Torah education of its citizens, but I still think the "safety net" and social system of Israel is far too extensive. If Hayamin reigned in Israel and Chaim was PM, then I would want the Israeli government to fund Kahanist Torah schools extensively; however, in the current state of affairs I think that educational/social services expenditures should be as small as can possibly be. There is too much potential for abuse and corruption. I'd rather see Israel have no educational system at all than a system that rewards crooked parties and organizations for supporting the regime's evil agenda.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

  On the one hand I would want the same, on the other hand absolutely not. Having it all privatized without any subsidies or vouchers at least would insure a less population growth as many parents would simply not be able to afford the education price for each child. It would just leave more money in the pockets of some wealthy people who will just spend it on vacations to Europe or cigars or something. Better to have the $ go to children's education and by extension people having (being able to) have more children.

[christians4jews]

Cant we just agree to disagree, when we argue over this it just takes us away from the real threat of Islam and the liberals. Whom are the real enemies.

[Israel Chai]

Pisslam is the main enemy.

Onto public schools, they originated with Charlemagne, and do help. Clearly, in the States, it hasn't. If there was a good government, anyone would be happy to fund them.

2 principal benefits: a more useful population (+wealth)
                            : less child gangs (-crime +population growth)

Tag is correct that it also contributes to population growth. Would you, Mr. Lewinsky stinks, be in favor of cutting payouts to new mothers (excluding mudrats)? How about tax reductions for young married couples? If people can't afford to have kids, they'll have less kids. I think we should cut funding to a lot of things in Israel, but rapid population growth is not one of them. Public elementary schools pay themselves off everywhere, and high schools do so usually. Tag is incorrect that the money otherwise spent on the cigars is, in fact, going. It is a healthy reinvestment, and the population growth is simply an additional benefit that is morally reprehensible not to value. By the time they are 20, they will be able to, at worst, work at Mcdonalds, a skill they would not have otherwise. It can be argued that it will also lead to a reduction in crime if workers are able to perform many types of jobs.

I agree that taxation should be minimal, but strongly support higher payouts to schools. People that sign up for low-paying public school teacher jobs typically have insane communist agenda they like to spread, and schools should instead make the best teachers want the jobs, because nothing is as valuable as a child's education. Every dollar spent is doubled in their lifetime, and multiplied heavily throughout their lives.

Corruption is common, so local governments should have control over it. The teachers should be known in town hall by the citizens of the town, further increasing the prestige appeal of teaching jobs, and ensuring only the best are teaching our kids (G-d willing, may I have some of my own one day), it would also make curriculum easier to be controlled by concerned parents. The one issue of curriculum is that local communities making their own history tests after the standardized information to be tested in exams can lead to local divides, but federal control of history courses can lead to indoctrination, and the most serious form of it, as evidenced by Israeli schools. There is also a massive benefit to nationalist sentiment when a nation knows a shared history, so I am not sure which side to go with in this dilema.

Overall, my position is that feds=protect+ punish
local gov= infastructure+ services

You may as well propose to eliminate garbage men.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

 - Actually Public school system was in the times of the Gemarah (even earlier with the Prophet Ezra) . Some of the Rabbis made public education, accessible for all and paid by the community in a tax.
 -

 Just quickly searched it

Origin of schools[edit]
The father was traditionally the sole teacher of his children in Jewish history (Deut. xi. 19). The institution known as the "be rav" or "bet rabban" (house of the teacher), or as the "be safra" or "bet sefer" (house of the book), is said to have been originated by Ezra' and his Great Assembly, who provided a public school in Jerusalem to secure the education of fatherless boys of the age of sixteen years and upward. But the school system did not develop till Joshua ben Gamla the high priest caused public schools to be opened in every town and hamlet for all children above six or seven years of age (B. B. 21a).
The expense was borne by the community, and strict discipline was observed. Rav, however, ordered Samuel b. Shilat to deal tenderly with the pupils, to refrain from corporal punishment, or at most to use a shoe-strap in correcting pupils for inattention. A stupid pupil was made monitor until able to grasp the art of learning. Raba fixed the number of pupils at twenty-five for one teacher; if the number was between twenty-five and forty an assistant teacher ("resh dukana") was necessary; and for over forty, two teachers were required.
Only married men were engaged as teachers, but there is a difference of opinion regarding the qualification of the "melammed" (teacher). Raba preferred one who taught his pupils much, even though somewhat carelessly, while Rav Dimi of Nehardea preferred one who taught his pupils little, but that correctly, as an error in reading once adopted is hard to correct (ib.). It is, of course, assumed that both qualifications were rarely to be found in one person.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talmud_Torah#Origin_of_schools

"People that sign up for low-paying public school teacher jobs typically have insane communist agenda they like to spread"

 Or maybe because they are poor and get less money they tend to favor communism more as they see it will benefit them more (as opposed to richer people who would like to have less taxes soo they keep more of the money they get).

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

  Anyway to what I said earlier- I would rather have a system of school vouchers. Parent's can take the vouchers and spend at the schools that they like instead of having the system of them giving the schools and money to people in the Knesset depending on how many votes they have and depending on if they comply with the gov. or not. Its like blackmail.
 Also in the U.S. the same thing perhaps. Parents should be given school vouchers and can and should choose the schools that they want to send their kids to. Perhaps then the schools can compete better and the Religious Jewish schools can get some $ as well instead of having Jewish Religious parents paying a lot of money for private education AND at the same time paying for the education of others. Its like double (or more) taxation.