Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
The Egyptian that Moshe Killed - Would Not Father Future Converts
Tag-MehirTzedek:
If Yocheved knew then her husband knew as well. He was one of 4 who never sinned in his life. Soo if he knew this name and the Egyptian enslavement itself was a Hillul Hashem then he surely would and should have used it.
Also even back to Moshe, had he had this power he wouldn't have had to run away after striking (or using Divine name) the Egyptian dead.
edu:
Quote from Tag-MehirTzedek
--- Quote ---If Yocheved knew then her husband knew as well. He was one of 4 who never sinned in his life. Soo if he knew this name and the Egyptian enslavement itself was a Hillul Hashem then he surely would and should have used it.
Also even back to Moshe, had he had this power he wouldn't have had to run away after striking (or using Divine name) the Egyptian dead.
--- End quote ---
Not everyone who is on a high spiritual level realizes he is on a high spiritual level. It could be Yocheved's husband didn't believe he was on the level of being worthy to use the Divine Names.
Or according to Maharal's take on Moshe, it could be that Yocheved's husband was too afraid to give Egyptians the weak hit in order to activate the power of the Divine Names.
Although there is room to argue about this, a possible support for the Maharal's view that a relatively weak hit was needed to activate the miracle is found in the Talmud's account in Brachot 54b regarding how Moshe killed Og the King of Bashan.
The Talmud seemingly portrays Og as the largest and strongest man in history and the hit that Moshe gave him (even with his weapon of war) in an ordinary situation would not have been enough to kill Og or even stop him. But G-d supplemented Moshe's hit with a miracle to make it do the job.
Tag-MehirTzedek:
Edu- About Moshe and Og, its not literal at all. If you were to take it literal you would think him to be a giant, reaaaly big giant, but if you see the words of the sages and the deeper meaning behind all the measurements and statements you would appreciate the words of the sages a lot more.
If you can get a hold of this book and in the third chapter on "giants" you can see what all of it means and what it alludes to exactly.
http://www.amazon.com/Sacred-Monsters-Natan-Slifkin/dp/9652295817
I think the same can be said to in regards to our case. We should understand something to be a Derash when it is a Derash and leave it at that. Live our lives on the level of Pshat instead of going through this whole pilpul of how Moshe would possibly strike someone in a way other then using his physical force available to him and strike him dead.
edu:
Tag_MehirTzedek holds:
--- Quote ---Edu- About Moshe and Og, its not literal at all. If you were to take it literal you would think him to be a giant, reaaaly big giant, but if you see the words of the sages and the deeper meaning behind all the measurements and statements you would appreciate the words of the sages a lot more.
--- End quote ---
It seems the sages did think that Og was the largest and most powerful man in history.
See:
Brachot 54a
--- Quote ---Our Rabbis taught: If one sees the place of the crossing of the Red Sea, or the fords of the Jordan,
or the fords of the streams of Arnon, or hail stones [abne elgabish] in the descent of Beth Horon, or
the stone which Og king of Bashan wanted to throw at Israel, or the stone on which Moses sat when
Joshua fought with Amalek, or [the pillar of salt of] Lot's wife, or the wall of Jericho which sank
into the ground, for all of these he should give thanksgiving and praise to the Almighty.
--- End quote ---
See Yoma page 80b Soncino Translation
--- Quote ---When this came up for discussion, it came up in connection with ‘Og, king of Bashan’,1 so that Beth
Shammai will be found to take the severer view. — R. Zera asked a strong question: To what
difference is it due that, with regard to eating, the minimum of a date was fixed for every one,
whereas in the case of drinking each has [his minimum] in accord with his own [mouthful]? —
Abaye replied to him: Regarding2 food the Rabbis established that with [the quantity of] a date a
person may come to, but with a smaller quantity he will not come to; but with regard to drinking
[they have found] that a man will come to with the quantity of his own [mouthful], but not with less
than that. — R. Zera then asked another strong question: ‘All the world’ with a date and Og, the king
of Bashan, also with a date? — Abaye replied: The Rabbis have ascertained that [touching food] the
quantity [of a date] helps one to come to, but with a smaller quantity he will not come to; but,
whereas all the world [can come to] more so, Og, king of Bashan, [only] somewhat so.
--- End quote ---
Footnotes
(1) I.e., this teaching refers to the case of men as gigantic as Og, king of Bashan (Ber. 54b); in such cases Beth Shammai
will be found to have taken, as usual, the severer view. For according to that school the minimum incurring penalty for
any man is a fourth of a log, whereas according to the Hillelites it is for each according to his mouthful. According to
Beth Shammai, therefore, an ‘Og, king of Bashan’ would become culpable on drinking, what to him would be less than a
drop, whereas according to Beth Hillel he would incur penalty only when drinking the generous measure of his own
mouthful.
(2) Corrected according to Bah.
muman613:
Og indeed was a giant, and he existed from pre-flood times... See Talmud Tractate Niddah 61a...
--- Quote ---http://halakhah.com/niddah/niddah_61.html
And the Lord said unto Moses: Fear him not'.47 Consider: Sihon and Og were brothers, for a Master stated, 'Sihon and Og were the sons of Ahijah the son of Shamhazai',48 then why was it that he feared Og while he did not fear Sihon? R. Johanan citing R. Simeon b. Yohai replied: From the answer that was given49 to50 that righteous man51 you may understand what was in his mind.52 He thought: Peradventure the merit of our father Abraham will stand him53 by, for it is said, And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew,54 in connection with which R. Johanan explained: This refers to Og who escaped the fate of the generation of the flood.55
47 Num. XXI, 34.
48 One of the fallen angels referred to in Gen. VI, 2, 4 as 'sons of God' or 'Nephilim'.
49 By God.
50 Lit., 'of'.
51 Moses.
52 Lit., 'heart'.
53 Og.
54 Gen. XIV, 13.
55 Cf. Zeb. 113b.
--- End quote ---
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