Author Topic: What are our beliefs  (Read 1478 times)

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Offline Israel Chai

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What are our beliefs
« on: December 22, 2013, 06:10:43 AM »
Muman made a speech on how it's important that we learn how to communicate our beliefs, so I think the first step is to clearly define them.

Whether it's kicking the Arabs out of Israel, I need a point form list with reasons why and Torah justification, as much as conceivably possible, and I swear on my honor I will use my new mike to make it into a youtube video, which can be posted wherever.

This thread is for debating.

Please, organize your opinion on what the Kahanist platform today is, or just vote for the good Rabbi's original one, and I will say them out.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Online angryChineseKahanist

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Re: What are our beliefs
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2013, 07:18:25 AM »
I worship al gore.
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Offline Israel Chai

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Re: What are our beliefs
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2013, 07:23:15 AM »
Not a joke ACK.

At any rate, I propose the sections to be divided into: defense, political, moral and economic.

Defense should be things on dealing with inside and outside threats, political should be what the system should look like and the rights of citizens within it, moral should be what is encouraged or forbidden in any plan for the country (things that must come gradually should be stated, and will not be a part of a platform), and economic should refer to the economic order in the country, but also the foreign economic relations in regards to trade and aid.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Online Zelhar

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Re: What are our beliefs
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2013, 09:23:38 AM »

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: What are our beliefs
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2013, 10:43:16 AM »
Make Israel a Jewish country from A to Z.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline muman613

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Re: What are our beliefs
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2013, 03:25:44 PM »
I will attempt to lay out what I think our goals should be.

It is essential to raise a generation of Jews who are knowledgeable about our Torah, it's promises to our descendants, and to instill a sense of Jewish pride which has been lacking in the previous generation. I am blessed to have been brought up in what I consider one of the last great generations of Jews in Galut/Exile. The next Generation unfortunately has not been given the skills and knowledge necessary for continuation of the Jewish mission. The Torah and Jewish sages have always stressed the importance of Chinuch (education) of the Jewish children for continuity.

We must learn Torah and spread the teaching to all we encounter, Jews and non-Jews alike. We must assume the responsibility on our selves. When we say shema we must attempt to live it, as our great Rabbi Akiva lived it, even to the point of losing our lives if need be. Rabbi Akiva was executed by the Romans for teaching Torah and died with the Shema on his lips.

Once we have a generation of proud Jewish youth who understand that there is a reason to be Jewish (as Rabbi Kahane wrote the article 'Why be Jewish?' to explain this) we will be better positioned to make actual steps to re-settle the promised land. I fear that today we do not have the power to accomplish the goals which we seek (removal of the arabs and settlement of Jews in the historic land of Judea). Without a miracle I do not think we can make these moves (although I will listen to those who do believe it is possible).

Learning and Teaching Torah lessons which instill pride in our heritage is the first step toward a re-invigorated Jewish people, proud of our history, proud of of future, and proud of our home land which Hashem promised to our forefathers.

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/955162/jewish/Laws-of-Reciting-the-Shema-Part-I.htm

Quote
Chapter six of Deuteronomy (verses 4-9) contains the first paragraph of the Shema. In verse 7 we read: "And you shall teach them to your sons and speak of them—when you sit in your house, and when you walk on the way, and when you lie down and when you rise up."

Our Sages explained that the words "when you lie down and when you rise up" is a charge to recite the Shema every morning and evening.1

The Shema includes three paragraphs (click here for the Hebrew and English texts). The theme of the first (Deuteronomy 6:4-10) is the acceptance of the “yoke of Heaven,” the second (ibid. 11:13-21) of the acceptance of the yoke of His commandments, and the third (Numbers 15:37-41) of remembering the Exodus from Egypt.2

Our Sages tell us that the creation of the entire world is considered a worthwhile endeavor just for the acceptance of the yoke of Heaven that we enact during the daily recital of Shema.3 It is said that one who prepares himself for prayer in the proper way,4 puts on tefillin, recites the Shema, and then prays, has fully accepted the yoke of Heaven.5

The Sefer HaChinuch writes6 that when a person reciting Shema remembers the unity and kingship of the Almighty, who supervises everything, he will take to heart that G‑d's eyes observe all of a person's ways. He will appreciate that G‑d counts our steps and that none of our thoughts are hidden from Him. Thinking this and saying this will guard a person throughout the day. Repeating it at night will guard him at night as well.

The reward for reciting the Shema at the right time is greater than the reward for studying Torah during the rest of the day,7 and Torah study is considered greater than all the other mitzvot.8
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: What are our beliefs
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2013, 03:30:16 PM »
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: What are our beliefs
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2013, 06:20:41 PM »
I watched that video again (for the 3rd or 4th time) and I have to say I am impressed by Rabbi Kahanes reasoning and his style. Although I already consider myself a 'Kahanist' I still find it hard to believe there are Jews who so hate him as to reject his message.

Here is part deu of the 'Why Be Jewish' lecture...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Online angryChineseKahanist

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Re: What are our beliefs
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2013, 06:53:36 PM »
My religion is better than yours. Your religion sucks. Convert or die.

I don't know what you're trying to accomplish with "This thread is for debating."
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Offline muman613

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Re: What are our beliefs
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2013, 07:18:17 PM »
My religion is better than yours. Your religion sucks. Convert or die.

I don't know what you're trying to accomplish with "This thread is for debating."

You did not listen to the Rabbi, he never said convert or die.

We don't need converts. If you want to convert, convert. Otherwise just allow the Jewish people to live in our land in peace...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Online angryChineseKahanist

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Re: What are our beliefs
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2013, 07:42:13 PM »
You did not listen to the Rabbi, he never said convert or die.

We don't need converts. If you want to convert, convert. Otherwise just allow the Jewish people to live in our land in peace...


what are you talking about?
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Offline muman613

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Re: What are our beliefs
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2013, 08:55:33 PM »

what are you talking about?

What I quoted from you concerning 'my religion is better, yours sucks, convert or die.."

Did you mean something I missed or were you implying that the Jewish beliefs are what you wrote?
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: What are our beliefs
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2013, 09:08:55 PM »
What I quoted from you concerning 'my religion is better, yours sucks, convert or die.."

Did you mean something I missed or were you implying that the Jewish beliefs are what you wrote?
I think he was talking to LKZ...
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline muman613

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Re: What are our beliefs
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2013, 09:13:52 PM »
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline kahaneloyalist

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Re: What are our beliefs
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2013, 11:20:21 PM »
1. Conquest of Eretz Yisrael: Based upon the Ramban's Sefer HaMitzvot, positive commandment #4. The Mitzvah to conquer the land of Israel and expel any inhabitants who don't except the status of Ger Toshav applies in our day as in the time of Yehoshua. This mitzvah overrides even danger to life.

2. Establishment of a Torah state. Based upon Rambam's Mishne Torah Hilchot Melachim. The establishment of a state based upon Torah is a requirement of any Jewish government.

I will continue to work on the list as I have time.
"For it is through the mercy of fools that all Justice is lost"
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Offline fibrogirl

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Re: What are our beliefs
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2013, 05:36:11 AM »
As a newcomer, I think the list ought to be made short to begin with.

When I join a group, I want a short summary of what the beliefs are. It doesn't necessarily have to be long with links to Kahane.


A short summary on any of the topics below would be good enough.

Defence
Education
The media
Homosexuality (I discussed this on another thread with Muman when I first joined, if anyone wants I could try to find it and post it here.)
Foreign Workers and Rights of Non Jews
Healthcare
Economy
Whether it is right that Hareidim in Israel study without working and are paid using my taxpayers money. (I'm not keen)
What does JTF think Israel's borders should be


Offline fibrogirl

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Re: What are our beliefs
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2013, 05:46:45 AM »
I think I misunderstood. I realise that you meant what are our individual beliefs, not what JTF stands for.
In which case my beliefs are slightly different.
I don't agree with a Halachic state because there is a slight risk of it becoming like Iran. I, myself am traditional, not observant.
I do want Israel to be a Jewish state, teach more Judaism at school...not everyone has to observe it in their homes. I especially want Israel to stop giving out land.

I really want the bootlicking of people who hate us to end, what with begging for negotionations with those who want to kill us and begging people to like us. I want Israel's leaders to grow a backbone and feel some self pride in their identity as well as an end to any corruption.

In short I fully agree with Manhigut Yehudit's platform and Moshe Feiglin's platform with the big exception of Moshe Feiglin's ideas on electoral reform and the idea of having Sunday as a day of rest.

I guess my views are different to most here but I feel I have enough in common.

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: What are our beliefs
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2013, 08:22:40 AM »
I think I misunderstood. I realise that you meant what are our individual beliefs, not what JTF stands for.
In which case my beliefs are slightly different.
I don't agree with a Halachic state because there is a slight risk of it becoming like Iran. I, myself am traditional, not observant.
I do want Israel to be a Jewish state, teach more Judaism at school...not everyone has to observe it in their homes. I especially want Israel to stop giving out land.

I really want the bootlicking of people who hate us to end, what with begging for negotionations with those who want to kill us and begging people to like us. I want Israel's leaders to grow a backbone and feel some self pride in their identity as well as an end to any corruption.

In short I fully agree with Manhigut Yehudit's platform and Moshe Feiglin's platform with the big exception of Moshe Feiglin's ideas on electoral reform and the idea of having Sunday as a day of rest.

I guess my views are different to most here but I feel I have enough in common.

No I mean exactly what the group stands for. There's more conversations here than in Talmud. We need our Rambam.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: What are our beliefs
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2013, 11:37:28 PM »
Also, our beliefs will define what we are as an interest group, but if you can make a list of causes, kicking out Sudanese illegals and protecting the settlements and pioneers, for example, that will support our existence as also a social movement.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge