Author Topic: Where and how I disagree with Chaim.  (Read 7989 times)

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Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Where and how I disagree with Chaim.
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2007, 07:29:17 AM »
Jeffguy, I am not singling out Jews--well, I suppose that I am (in the area of self-hatred). I also believe the vast majority of Americans are immoral, lazy, decadent pigs. The vast majority of Americans by opinion poll said Clinton's (yimach schmo) affair with Monica Lewinsky was a victimless crime and that the Republicans were being terrible zealots by making a big deal of this.

ChaimFan, I know what you are saying and I understand where you are coming from. I just try to be careful when it comes to the Jewish people. We've endured a LOT and been through a LOT. Naturally, these things have affected us and many Jewish people do have that "beaten wife syndrome" where they think "if only I hadn't spilled the coffee!".

I meant no disrespect towards you and I hope that I wasn't too brash. I'm a little exhausted and not as careful as I should be with my words. I am, also, protective of the Jewish people because of my love for them and my deep love for Israel. G-d willing, JTF can get that message to them and we can bring the redemption like it talks about in the Torah.

You are a great poster on this forum and I think it's wonderful we can debate each other and still care so deeply.

jeffguy

I'm not without some sympathy for the outlook of the average Israeli today. I don't mean the raving judenrat, leftist minority or the sell-outs in the knesset. I mean the average Jew in Israel.

After 2000 years of torture and genocide without a country of their own, they finally come home. With nothing more than clapped out, home-made or surplus weapons they survive. With little more than shovels and tinned herring they build.

Now after more than half a century of constant hardship, war, hate, isolation and poverty they've built a rich nation with an advanced economy with high paying jobs and shopping malls. Now, finally all they want is the chance to be normal....like us. You know.....have the normal life that we in diaspora have taken for granted for the entire post-war era. To work, cosume, party and drive the new car to the mall. They are,infact desperate for it. So desperate that they'll do anything for it. Can you blame them?

A sensible, rational, prudent person is stricken with cancer. They desperately want to live and see their childen grow. So desperate do they bocome, they sometimes buy the snake oil of the quack or huckster. Can you really blame them for setting their normal common sense aside under such circumstances?

The average Israeli is not The Charedi, the suicidal leftist,  the erev rav hater of all things religious or even the religious zionist. They are just average Jews who want the normal human existance we can take as a given in the comfort of the nations. Desperate, through no fault of theirs they have been seduced by the clever sales pitch of evil men. The quacks offering the snake oil and wonder cures of disengagement and appeasement have found what such men always seek.....a mass of desperate shoppers.

So by all means......let us curse the leftist teacher who pollutes the minds of Israel's children with doubt and self-hate. Let us curse the corrupt politicians who place self glorification and personal wealth above Ahavat Yisrael. Let us curse the marxist who despises anything religious and let us attack the traitor who sides with the muslim-nazi enemy. But let  us NOT attack our desperate and frightened Jewish brothers of the majority who have made bad choices only because they have been denied an alternative by an evil elite minority.

very well said
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

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Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Where and how I disagree with Chaim.
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2007, 06:37:58 PM »
Jeff, please don't apologize. We were having a legitimate discussion about my original post and you said nothing wrong.

RationalThought, you hit the nail right on the head. The bulk of Israelis, right now, DO believe such heroes as the Hilltop Youth are seditious and criminal. They always have. In the late '40s they turned Stern members into the British Nazi colonial Gestapo, knowing full well they would be tortured and hanged. They made the commie monster ben GAYrion (yimach schmo vezichro!)their leader, despite the fact that he was a devout Stalinist who presided over the mass murder of dozens, if not hundreds, of heroic Jewish patriots at Altalena and elsewhere.

Israel has never, ever had a right-wing majority. Virtually all of the early Zionist pilgrims were socialist/Marxist beatniks from Russia and other parts of Europe who immediately made their presence felt by founding kibbutzim. Almost every last religious Jew on the planet (zt"l) was murdered by Hitler and his countless accomplices throughout Europe and North America, in large part because traitor Jews in Israel collaborated with the British Nazis to deny them refuge, so this demographic in then-British Fagestine remained unchanged through the '40s. When decent, patriotic Jews from Muslim Nazi countries began moving to Israel in and after 1948, they were completely brainwashed, by force, by the ruling Ashkenazi Marxist elite of ben GAYrion (may he burn in the lake of molten sulphur forever). Thus, even these once-sincere Sephardim became either secular, self-hating Marxists or, if they remained religious, still became extremely left-wing, like Ovadia Yosef.

DownwithIslam, even if you are correct that the majority of Israelis are not this bad, you are absolutely right that the left makes itself heard much more prominently. (I myself see no difference between silence in the face of suicidal leftists and outright support for them, but I digress.) The notion that Israelis are all complacent and lazy and unwilling to do some civil disobedience is utter nonsense. The left does it every single day. Look at all the Histadrut strikes. Look at all the Israeli fag marches. Look at all the Peace Now suicide orgies that take place whenever Israel mounts some non-retaliation for another murder of dozens of Jewish babies (like bombing some empty ancient building). Look at the soldiers who refuse to serve in the territories. This human dreck is NOT afraid to get out there to block roads, riot, fight with the police, and physically attack their opponents. NONE of this--I repeat, none of this chutzpah is ever seen among patriotic, right-wing Jewry anywhere in Israel. True, Kahanist youth (zt"l) , on small scales, may resist expulsion with great force and courage, but, as of now, it's but a drop in the bucket compared to the constant rowdy marches/riots of Peace Now and the Histadrut commies.

The fact that more Jews are up in arms about banning the sale of pork in Israel than surrendering to terrorist swine is a cause for great mourning. So is the fact that more religious Jews are willing to chain themselves to markets selling pork than to Jewish homes in Gaza and Judea/Samaria slated for destruction.

Offline RationalThought110

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Re: Where and how I disagree with Chaim.
« Reply #27 on: August 03, 2007, 01:11:47 AM »
I know where Chaimfan is coming from on this. Even though I don't think he is correct, the kike worms in Israel are making themselves heard more than the right wing ones so I can see how people can come to this conclusion.


Since liberals like the idea of a "fairness doctrine", do you think Israel needs this?  Wouldn't that force the Bolsheviks to have to allow non-Bolshevik commentary in mainstream Israeli media sources?

Offline MarZutra

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Re: Where and how I disagree with Chaim.
« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2007, 08:29:46 AM »
I think it is almost impossible to agree with anyone 100% on a wide variety of subjects.  Personally, since Muslims control over 1/3rd of the world's landmass, I'm all for America or Israel taking back ALL of "P listine", the Sinai and ALL of Saudi Arabia & Emirates....expelling the Muslims and annexing not only the land but the total oil reserves beneath it.  The Arabs do not disserve to have such resources due to the fact that they've never done anything positive with it but propagate hatred and terrorism... ;)
"‘Vehorashtem/Numbers 33:53’: When you burn out the Land’s inhabitants, you will merit to bestow upon your children the Land as an inheritance. If you do not burn them out, then even if you conquer the Land, you will not merit to allot it to your children as an inheritance." - Ovadiah ben Yacov Sforno; Italian Rabbi, Biblical Commentator, Philosopher and Physician.  1475-1550.

newman

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Re: Where and how I disagree with Chaim.
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2007, 08:33:28 AM »
I think it is almost impossible to agree with anyone 100% on a wide variety of subjects.  Personally, since Muslims control over 1/3rd of the world's landmass, I'm all for America or Israel taking back ALL of "P listine", the Sinai and ALL of Saudi Arabia & Emirates....expelling the Muslims and annexing not only the land but the total oil reserves beneath it.  The Arabs do not disserve to have such resources due to the fact that they've never done anything positive with it but propagate hatred and terrorism... ;)

Agreed. It's like kaffirs having the diamonds in Africa.......a complete waste.

Offline MarZutra

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Re: Where and how I disagree with Chaim.
« Reply #30 on: August 03, 2007, 09:19:14 AM »
In addition, the West never sees that in Saudi Arabia there are what 4000 Princes fabulously wealthy, the masses either on the dole or empoverished....one must not forget the legalized head cuttings and slavery.  Oh I too forgot "ALL NON MUSLIMS MUST EXIT" on the highway to Mecca....   G-d I hate Islam....and yes Moooooslims because they wilfully profess to the Globalist Nazi faith of Islam.
"‘Vehorashtem/Numbers 33:53’: When you burn out the Land’s inhabitants, you will merit to bestow upon your children the Land as an inheritance. If you do not burn them out, then even if you conquer the Land, you will not merit to allot it to your children as an inheritance." - Ovadiah ben Yacov Sforno; Italian Rabbi, Biblical Commentator, Philosopher and Physician.  1475-1550.

newman

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Re: Where and how I disagree with Chaim.
« Reply #31 on: August 03, 2007, 09:24:40 AM »
In addition, the West never sees that in Saudi Arabia there are what 4000 Princes fabulously wealthy, the masses either on the dole or empoverished....one must not forget the legalized head cuttings and slavery.  Oh I too forgot "ALL NON MUSLIMS MUST EXIT" on the highway to Mecca....   G-d I hate Islam....and yes Moooooslims because they wilfully profess to the Globalist Nazi faith of Islam.

Funny how we hear all about Israel's 'racist' law of returns in the liberal media and not a peep about the virtual ban on non-muslims on the arabian peninsular.

Offline nessuno

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Re: Where and how I disagree with Chaim.
« Reply #32 on: August 03, 2007, 10:01:43 AM »
In addition, the West never sees that in Saudi Arabia there are what 4000 Princes fabulously wealthy, the masses either on the dole or empoverished....one must not forget the legalized head cuttings and slavery.  Oh I too forgot "ALL NON MUSLIMS MUST EXIT" on the highway to Mecca....   G-d I hate Islam....and yes Moooooslims because they wilfully profess to the Globalist Nazi faith of Islam.

Funny how we hear all about Israel's 'racist' law of returns in the liberal media and not a peep about the virtual ban on non-muslims on the arabian peninsular.
Funny but sadly not surprising.
Be very CAREFUL of people whose WORDS don't match their ACTIONS.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Where and how I disagree with Chaim.
« Reply #33 on: August 03, 2007, 06:27:15 PM »
Why do self-hating Jews enjoy being a part of this madness?

Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Where and how I disagree with Chaim.
« Reply #34 on: August 03, 2007, 07:33:40 PM »
Why do self-hating Jews enjoy being a part of this madness?

It's not just self-hating Jews...It's, in general, greedy people of all colors races creeds religions. It's too bad that not ALL Jews can be virtuous. But Gd didn't prescribe that just because one was a Jew he was better than any other person.. All people should be virtuous and righteous.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

newman

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Re: Where and how I disagree with Chaim.
« Reply #35 on: August 03, 2007, 08:11:04 PM »
Why do self-hating Jews enjoy being a part of this madness?

It's not just self-hating Jews...It's, in general, greedy people of all colors races creeds religions. It's too bad that not ALL Jews can be virtuous. But Gd didn't prescribe that just because one was a Jew he was better than any other person.. All people should be virtuous and righteous.

God wants them to be, though. " Jews is just regular folk.......only more so". ;)

Offline RationalThought110

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Re: Where and how I disagree with Chaim.
« Reply #36 on: August 08, 2007, 02:48:47 AM »
Is it true that some voters who no longer vote for the Likud party because it acted more like the Labor party, got tricked into voting for Avigdor Lieberman's, when they were looking for a different party to support?

Offline MarZutra

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Re: Where and how I disagree with Chaim.
« Reply #37 on: August 08, 2007, 08:28:59 AM »
Why do self-hating Jews enjoy being a part of this madness?
A. They don't see themselves as Jews at all because they believe in no G-d and they are more intelligent and above these religious lower form of life; the religious Jew.  Thus they team up with every anti-Jews be it Islamic, Elitists CFRs or whatever....  It is very sad and may they all meet a shiny bullet SOON!!  It is not the Arabs, nor the elitists worlds anti-Jew but the JEWISH anti-Jew that IS our problem: Erev Rav....  They must be eliminated!! 
"‘Vehorashtem/Numbers 33:53’: When you burn out the Land’s inhabitants, you will merit to bestow upon your children the Land as an inheritance. If you do not burn them out, then even if you conquer the Land, you will not merit to allot it to your children as an inheritance." - Ovadiah ben Yacov Sforno; Italian Rabbi, Biblical Commentator, Philosopher and Physician.  1475-1550.

Offline Catholic Zionist 73

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Re: Where and how I disagree with Chaim.
« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2007, 02:36:49 PM »
In addition, the West never sees that in Saudi Arabia there are what 4000 Princes fabulously wealthy, the masses either on the dole or empoverished....one must not forget the legalized head cuttings and slavery.  Oh I too forgot "ALL NON MUSLIMS MUST EXIT" on the highway to Mecca....   G-d I hate Islam....and yes Moooooslims because they wilfully profess to the Globalist Nazi faith of Islam.

Funny how we hear all about Israel's 'racist' law of returns in the liberal media and not a peep about the virtual ban on non-muslims on the arabian peninsular.
Funny but sadly not surprising.

you mean signs like this:



when was the last time you heard of a demonstration against or boycott of Arab apartheid?

Joe Schmo

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Re: Where and how I disagree with Chaim.
« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2007, 02:43:17 PM »
you mean signs like this:


when was the last time you heard of a demonstration against or boycott of Arab apartheid?

Absolutely.
(Note the capital 'M' and the lowercase 'n m')
« Last Edit: August 08, 2007, 02:48:41 PM by Scriabin »

Offline MarZutra

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Re: Where and how I disagree with Chaim.
« Reply #40 on: August 08, 2007, 04:04:30 PM »
Yes that is it.  Perhaps those at CBC/CTV might look at this.  Their so fcuking dumb that they'd probably say "it is their culture" and we must respect their cultural beliefs..  Ah.......#$%^$#%&!!!
"‘Vehorashtem/Numbers 33:53’: When you burn out the Land’s inhabitants, you will merit to bestow upon your children the Land as an inheritance. If you do not burn them out, then even if you conquer the Land, you will not merit to allot it to your children as an inheritance." - Ovadiah ben Yacov Sforno; Italian Rabbi, Biblical Commentator, Philosopher and Physician.  1475-1550.

Offline RationalThought110

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Re: Where and how I disagree with Chaim.
« Reply #41 on: August 09, 2007, 05:15:17 AM »
An author of an article admits that Kahane was right (most likely referencing Kahane):

"I write in sadness -- deep sadness.

Almost 25 years ago, I read a one-line description of Jewish leadership that has haunted me ever since. The author, whose name I have repressed, wrote: "Only a confirmed anti-Semite could believe that the Jewish people have the leadership they deserve."

I protested his statement then, but I am not sure I can disagree now."

http://www.jewishjournal.com/home/preview.php?id=17717


Olmert's approval rating was reported to be below 10% last month:

http://www.jewishjournal.com/home/preview.php?id=18019



Some call policies of Sharon and Olmert a failure:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51035


""Israel's withdrawal from Gaza and the uprooting of Jewish communities there was interpreted by Hamas and by the Palestinian people as a victory for terrorism," said Arens. "

Will he repeat this sentiment to warn against any further withdrawls? 


From an article last year:

"One survey, commissioned two weeks ago by a local company and supervised by American strategist Arthur Finkelstein, revealed 70 percent of the general Israeli population oppose a Judea and Samaria withdrawal. Some 65 to 70 percent of those who backed last summer's Gaza evacuation now object to Olmert's Judea and Samaria pullout plan."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51035


So most Israeli citizens have a very low approval rating of Olmert and are against the policies of Sharon and Olmert. 




Offline MarZutra

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Re: Where and how I disagree with Chaim.
« Reply #42 on: August 09, 2007, 08:26:20 AM »
Yes that is Kahane all right.  FYI I posted "Quotes by Rabbi Kahane" for the members on the forum...  I'm not sure which section it is in but you will find many valuable quotes there...   ;)
"‘Vehorashtem/Numbers 33:53’: When you burn out the Land’s inhabitants, you will merit to bestow upon your children the Land as an inheritance. If you do not burn them out, then even if you conquer the Land, you will not merit to allot it to your children as an inheritance." - Ovadiah ben Yacov Sforno; Italian Rabbi, Biblical Commentator, Philosopher and Physician.  1475-1550.