Author Topic: Steven Plaut writes  (Read 5609 times)

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yephora

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Steven Plaut writes
« on: September 10, 2006, 01:52:46 PM »
in email this interesting tidbit:

General Gershon Hacohen is head of all army training colleges and was
personally in charge of the expulsion of Jews from the Gaza Strip.  He
appeared on Channel 10 a few days ago and said this:

"What happened a year ago (the Gush Katif expulsion) was a crime, and I
was unfortunately a part of that crime against the Jewish people.  What is
happening here now, the second Lebanese War, is the collective punishment
we have received for what happened a year ago in Gaza."

Offline kahaneloyalist

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Re: Steven Plaut writes
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2006, 02:10:26 PM »
While I like to believe he is doing teshuva I will believe him when I see him rebuild the lives of all those people he hurt
"For it is through the mercy of fools that all Justice is lost"
Ramban

yephora

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Re: Steven Plaut writes
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2006, 02:32:57 PM »
Fat chance. He could also be cannily positioning himself in anticipation of the fall of Smolmert & Co..
But I agree with you, I hope it is sincere repentance on his part.

yephora

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Important Court Victory in Israel
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2006, 11:33:12 AM »
"This is an extremely important case.   The anti-democratic attempt to
use the courts to suppress free speech failed for the first time"

---

Court Nullifies AGs Indictment Against Nadia Matar
Sunday, September 10, 2006 / 17 Elul 5766

The indictment against Nadia Matar for her fiery letter to Disengagement
Authority chief Yonatan Bassi has been expunged, implicitly citing
politics in the original decision to indict Matar.

The indictment against Women in Green chief Matar claimed that she had
violated the ban on "insulting a public servant" when she compared Bassi
to the Judenrat by agreeing to take part in the expulsion of Jews from
their homes in Gush Katif and Shomron.

"On September 19, 2004," the indictment states, "the accused faxed a
letter to Disengagement Authority chief Yonatan Bassi at his home stating,
inter alia: ..All your declarations won.t help, Yonatan. The truth is that
you are the modern version of the Judenrat, and truly a much more terrible
version, because during the Holocaust, the task was forced upon the Jewish
leadership by the Nazis, and it is very difficult for us today to judge
them. Today, there is nobody standing with a gun to your head forcing you
to collaborate with the deportation of the Jews of Gush Katif and northern
Samaria..."

Israel's Attorney General, as head of the State Prosecutor's office, is
assigned the power to decide whether or not an indictment is lodged
against an accused citizen. After the text of the letter was widely
publicized in the media, AG Menachem Mazuz announced that Matar would be
indicted.

Indictment - Null and Void
Jerusalem Magistrates Court Justice David Mintz ordered the indictment
expunged Sunday, explaining, "I am relying, in my decision, on the
statement of the Attorney General himself, who said, .Criminal law cannot
be the answer to all the ills of Israeli society. Unrestrained criticism
is, to our sorrow, a day-to-day part of the Israeli reality. Any time we
are dealing with freedom of speech, criminal law does not present the
correct and effective tool. I am therefore ordering the erasing of the
charge."

Matar received vocal support from Nobel Prize Laureate Professor Yisrael
Aumann, and 2,146 people re-sent copies of her letter with their names
affixed to the bottom, daring the Attorney General to file indictments
against them as well.

Representing Matar was prominent attorney Yoram Sheftel. In his opening
statement in the trial Sheftel summed up his approach: that the prosecution was engaging
in "selective law enforcement founded on invalid political considerations
and/or on cowardice."

Sheftel's Speech
Sheftel went on to present an exhaustive list of public figures, such as
Shas Party leader Rabbi Ovadia Yosef and Meretz chairman Yossi Beilin, as
well as left-wing activists, whose inflammatory statements the Attorney
General has declined to prosecute.

"It is inconceivable," Sheftel said, "that the Court, after becoming aware
of the facts that I will list, will leave in place the charge sheet, which
would completely undermine the trust of the public, or at last of the
decisive majority of the public, in the authorities entrusted with the
enforcement of the law."

Sheftel cited dozens of statements by the first President of the State of
Israel, Chaim Weizmann, and the first Prime Minister, David Ben-Gurion,
calling Revisionist Zionist leader Ze'ev Jabotinsky a "Hitlerist" and
"Vladimir Hitler," as well as terming Menachem Begin "the embodiment of
the worst of Nazism."

"My client did not say: 'Yonatan Basi is a Hitlerist' - but Chaim Weizmann
did use that language,. Sheftel said.

A petition filed against MK Beilin for his signing of the private Geneva
Initiative with the PLO, Sheftel said, fit exactly with Israel's legal
description of treason, which is: "An action to remove sovereign territory
of the State of Israel from its bounds - the punishment for which is the
death penalty."

The Attorney General said, "This is not the criminal field that is
suitable for such treatment [and is] subject to public debate." The
Disengagement, that is, the deportation, wasn't 'subject to public
debate?' Sheftel asked. "The same State Attorney's office that does not
file charges against Yossi Beilin for genuine traitorous activity, in
cooperation with hostile elements, files charges against Nadia Matar."

"Incidentally, right now, the Prime Minister's daughter, before the
cameras of the foreign press, close to the Chief of Staff's house (where
she invited them), calls the IDF Chief of Staff a 'murderer.' The Chief of
Staff is a public servant. Was an investigation opened for this? Will she
be put on trial?"

Matar herself took the stand in the course of the trial, stating: "This
comes at a time when... members of Peace Now are spying and informing on
behalf of the Arab enemy. At this time, Knesset Members and left-wing
public figures are shaking the bloodstained hands of Hamas members. At
this time, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert admits that he is prepared to repeat
the crime of handing weapons, ammunition and pieces of the homeland to the
Arab enemy. All these people are not being brought to justice for their
treasonous and criminal words and deeds.

"But we, the Jews, who dare to criticize the crime of expulsion of Jews
and abandoning of our land to the Arab . we are chased and trampled, with
pogroms perpetrated against us, as in Amona, and put us on trial."

'Kapo' is Not Strong Enough
"Just so it is clear to all," Matar declared. "You can't frighten us! We
will not be silenced! I do not take back a single word of the letter I
sent Yonatan Bassi. On the contrary, it is now clear how much pain and
suffering this man, together with all the rest of the expulsion criminals,
caused to our expelled brothers in particular, and to all citizens of
Israel in general. The word Judenrat is much too moderate. The word has
not yet been invented to describe the monstrosity of the Jews who caused
so much damage to their fellow Jews. The words kapo, traitor or
collaborator are also too moderate.

"Even if I have to sit in prison for these words, I will continue to cry
out these words: The Land of Israel belongs to the nation of Israel in
accordance with the Torah of Israel, and anyone who lends a hand to hand
over parts of our homeland and expel Jews - from the Prime Minister, to
the ministers and IDF officers, down to junior clerks like Yonatan Bassi -
must be put on trial for betrayal of Zionism and Judaism, for
collaborating with the Arab enemy, which continues in the way of the
Nazis, to murder and destroy the Jews."
[Bravo! --Y]

Speaking with Arutz-7 following the verdict, Matar said she is very happy
to see that the court "finally realizes that the prosecution sometimes
includes politics in its decision to hand down indictments. It was a big
blow to the prosecution."

Attorney Sheftel expressed reserved optimism: "This was the lowest court
of the land, dealing with less important cases, so the decision definitely
does not hold the power of precedent that a Supreme Court decision would.
However, to the best of my knowledge, it was the first time an Israeli
court has nullified charges against a criminal defendant implicitly due to
the fact that it actually accepted the argument that the charges were
brought because of political considerations."

The prosecution now has 45 days to appeal the case to the district court.
Matar and Sheftel are considering suing the prosecution to cover legal
expenses.
 
:D :D :D
« Last Edit: September 12, 2006, 11:56:53 AM by yephora »

yephora

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Steven Plaut writes:
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2006, 11:08:29 AM »
Oh, these stupid, stupid, suicidal, insanely self-hating Jewish Knesset liberals! What on earth is to be done about them??
---
Quick.  Name the only country on earth where loyalty and
patriotism to that country are regarded by that country's own legislature
as a form of racism!

Well, if you said Israel, you win two points and a two-fer-one coupon to
Wonderland.

The Knesset yesterday rejected a proposed law that would require people to
sign a loyalty oath in order to vote or sit in the parliament of Israel
(see http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/776547.html ).  The proposal was
the initiative of the National Union Party.

"Racism" is suddenly all the concern of Israel's Caring Left.   In the
past few days, there have been negotiations between SMOlmert's people and
Avigdor Lieberman's party to see if the latter will join the coalition.
That triggered soiled panties among hordes of Israel's Caring Left.  These
folks regard Lieberman as a "racist."   Among those who regard Lieberman
as a racist are open anti-Semites, cheerleaders for terror, fans of
Holocaust Deniers, supporters of Iran, and people who openly demand that
Israel be destroyed.

Meanwhile, the Left has been denouncing the proposal for a "loyalty oath"
as yet another form of blatant Jewish racism against Arabs.  After all, we
all know that many Israeli Arabs and also many Arab Knesset members in
Israel's parliament are disloyal enemies of their own country, seeking its
destruction and cheering on genocidal terrorists.   Azmi Bishara is
perhaps the most open about it, but lots of others, including many Arab
students enjoying subsidized classes at state-financed universities, hold
exactly the same political positions.  So clearly asking such people to
sign a loyalty oath before allowing them into the voting booths or the
Knesset restrooms would violate their delicate sensitivities and offend
their sense of being as "The Other".

The majority of Jewish Knesset Members agree that it would be racist to
ask voters to swear allegiance to their own country.  Really.

Rhuan

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Re: Steven Plaut writes:
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2006, 04:19:46 PM »
Oh, these stupid, stupid, suicidal, insanely self-hating Jewish Knesset liberals! What on earth is to be done about them??
---
Quick.  Name the only country on earth where loyalty and
patriotism to that country are regarded by that country's own legislature
as a form of racism!

Well, if you said Israel, you win two points and a two-fer-one coupon to
Wonderland.
I'm afraid I have to disagree, at the very least add England as a second.

adam613

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Re: Steven Plaut writes
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2006, 10:39:54 PM »
I wonder if this would happen if it was Noam Federman. if Israel will continue to make up charges against him. From my own research I don't see that anybody see's women in green as a real threat to the Israeli government. 

I may be in the minority but why does women in the green not join the kahanist. I think it is a fair question to ask? Arutz Sheva won't interview any Kahanist. If they are so concerned about Israel they should support the Kahanist. I don't see anywhere on the website that they do. They also do seem to feel that everything can be achieved through protest which I know Chaim doesn't agree with and I don't either. 

They do seem like thiey have some good intention but they may be another group that is more of a distraction then really doing what needs to be done. I also think that men and women should be working together not seperately on the issue of "survival of Israel" and this group fosters seperation on an issue that men and women should be working together.

If I am wrong please correct me and inform me because from my limited research and my own experience with people that support this group (some men too by the way) from other message boards I belong to that support Kahane "Jewish Club Maoz" (many of them do not support JTF.) Also some don't care about right wing men and their families that are making sacrifices simply because the most public role is by a male. And they support women that aren't bad but are just not at the same level and I think it is wrong to support a women who has does less just because she is a women. According to Chaim that is affirmative action isn't it. They support Caroline Glick who writes for the Jersulam POst and she is not a bad women at all. But what has she done that is so great relative to some of the other people other then being a women. Honestly tell me.  Thanks.

 

Offline Shlomo

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Re: Steven Plaut writes
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2006, 12:39:35 AM »
Arutz Sheva won't interview any Kahanist.

Really??? I didn't know that... what do they have against Kahanists?
"In the final analysis, for the believer there are no questions, and for the non-believer there are no answers." -Chofetz Chaim

adam613

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Re: Steven Plaut writes
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2006, 11:11:47 PM »
To clarify I don't know if they are against the kahanist but they don't seem to mention them.  My big issue with them is I know JTF has some people that have some issues and some who are frauds. Nevertheless, the people I have had contact with who support women in green may be right wing regarding Israel but my experience has been as are extremely left wing when it comes to feminism. Some support no fault divorce when women divorces men and giving them nothing in return (this of course is equality in divorce)and some support  this "gender feminism" of equality in results regardless of the fact that  men and women have different strengths and weaknesses and have different area's that they naturally have more control in.

The other issue is Ruth Matar's daughter in law Nadia Matar is married to a doctor (don't remember his first name.) Does he do anything? If it is just women doing these right wing activities and the husbands of these women do nothing I really believe it sends the WRONG MESSAGE AND SENDS HARMFUL MESSAGES TO WOMEN WHO MAY BE LEGITIMATELY CONCERNED ABOUT ISRAEL. Family is a very important part of Judaism (and any society)and the Federman's do it as a family. Noam's brave wife is involved and so are his two eldest children both girls. A lot of women want to marry obedient men that they control everything. It is just nature that when a family fights as a family the one that assumes the most public role is the father. We also know the prohibition of men wearing women clothing and women wearing men's cothing and it being called an abomination. (I would think this would apply to behavior as well.)  How far this goes I don't know as obviously certain clothrs and certain behaviors are needed by both sexes. But JTF is very militant on may issues and like I said the women in green have to suppress men to be the most public people in the organization. Of course JTF doesn't do that. It allows women to be part of the group which there have been people like Sara who was a speaker for JTF. What are men suppose to do if their wives are involved with women in green. Especially since some of the groups led by men are banned and don't even have arutz sheva.  I think there is this issue here of women really trying to act like men and showing they can do everything men can do and be as effective in these area's as men would be and this attitude harms the delicate balance that men and women need to love each other, to create healthy children, and to create another generation in which both men and women respect the opposite sex. 


Offline Shlomo

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Re: Steven Plaut writes
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2006, 11:20:33 PM »
It almost sounds like feminism.
"In the final analysis, for the believer there are no questions, and for the non-believer there are no answers." -Chofetz Chaim

yephora

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Steven Plaut writes
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2006, 03:27:52 PM »
An Open Letter to Prime Minister Olmert
by Jonathan Pollard
October 25, 2006

Dear Prime Minister Olmert,

Next month you will be traveling to Washington to meet with President Bush. Around the same time, I will be competing my 21st year in an American prison for my service to the State of Israel.

Mr. Olmert, it is no secret that you bear a personal responsibility for the years of affliction I have endured in prison. You are responsible not only because you are the prime minister of Israel and I am Israel's longest-held captive, but because of your own involvement in this affair. What you have done and what you have failed to do has been instrumental in prolonging my agony for more than two decades.

As a prominent member of the Eban Commission (the Knesset Committee that investigated the Pollard affair), you had direct access to all of the information. There was so much you could have done right from the start to help me. Instead, for 21 years you have shunned me; you have avoided saying or doing anything that might help; and you have dissuaded anyone who wanted to help from doing so.

Since taking office as prime minster, you have comported yourself as if I do not exist. Even as recently as the inauguration of the winter session of the Knesset, you read out the names of all of Israel's captives and spoke of Israel's dedication to their swift and safe return home. My name was not on the list.

A day before you made this speech, you received a written reminder of your moral and legal obligation to include me because of my status as an Israeli agent in captivity. Nevertheless, you still refused to mention my name. Such studied avoidance is no coincidence. The message it sends to the Americans is, even after 21 years in prison, I am still hefker.

Mr. Prime Minister, you are not a neutral party. According to the Eban Report (published in 1987), you yourself took the position that the manner of Israel's cooperation with the United States, and her assisting the prosecution against me, was wrong. You made it clear that Israel's return of the documents was "fundamentally mistaken and caused serious damage." You correctly concluded, "These documents constituted the basis for the conviction and life sentence that received, in spite of the Israeli assertion that there was an American commitment not to use the documents against [me]."

You did not bother to tell me back then that the return of the documents was conditioned on a US commitment not to use the documents against me. Had I known that, it would have greatly assisted in my defense. And when the US violated that commitment, you still did not inform me of the existence of that commitment, nor did you officially protest.

In all the years that have gone by since then, you have remained silent, never sharing this critical piece of information with me, never speaking out on my behalf; dissuading others from helping; never doing anything at all to assist, even though you knew that your silence and inaction was costing me years of my life, and perhaps even my life itself.

If your conscience does not bother you about what you are doing to me, then at least consider how badly this reflects upon Israel's reputation.

I ask you to end this dishonorable policy of abandonment when you visit Washington next month. It is not only my freedom that is at stake; the lives of all of Israel's captives and MIAs depend on your willingness to act forthrightly and with honor in the nation's best interests.

A recent editorial in the Jerusalem Post stated:
[Jonathan] Pollard is the longest-serving Israeli captive - in the hands of Israel's strongest ally. Israel is currently relying on US support in securing the release of the three soldiers abducted by its enemies, Gilad Shalit, Eldad Regev and Ehud Goldwasser, earlier this year. Yet, the US does not appear to be acting judiciously in the case of an Israeli it itself is holding. ("Release Pollard", October 9, 2006)
Mr. Prime Minister, for 21 years you have known - and remained silent. Your meeting with President Bush is a golden opportunity to rectify that. By securing my release, you will be acting in the best interests of the nation and of all of Israel's captives.
 
After 21 years, the return of Israel's longest-held captive is no longer an option. It is a matter of national honor.

Yours truly,

Jonathan Pollard