Tribe of Ephraim leaving Egypt prematurely. Were they incorrect?

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/195,2114525/The-Warriors-of-Ephraim.html

The Warriors of Ephraim
by Nissan Mindel


More than a hundred years had passed since the death of Joseph in Egypt, and the bitterness of the Golut (Exile) had become daily more unbearable. The young prince, Moses, who was the first to protest against the Egyptian oppressors, had been forced to flee the country. For, Dathan and Abiram had reported to Pharaoh that the young Moses had killed an Egyptian Overseer who was beating up a Jewish slave.

At this time a certain Jew of the tribe of Ephraim appeared; his name was Yagnon. He addressed his fellow-Jews in a rousing battle-cry: "Listen, my brothers! A hundred and eighty years have already passed since our ancestors arrived in Egypt; we can wait no longer for salvation. We are strong enough to take this matter into our own hands to free ourselves from the Egyptian yoke and capture our land, the land promised to our forefathers!"

But the older men in his audience just shook their heads sadly, and said: "If Yagnon truly believes that G-d promised our forefathers the Land of Canaan, then why does he not also believe that G-d will free His people and give us our land when He judges it to be the right time?"


They armed themselves with swords, bows and arrows, and marched out of Egypt
Yagnon, despite his fiery, rousing words, had little success amongst the majority of his listeners. Only the men of his own tribe of Ephraim backed him up and tried to influence others to follow suit, but without avail.

Nevertheless, Yagnon and his followers were determined to act on their own. They armed themselves with swords, bows and arrows, and marched out of Egypt. A fierce battle ensued, and the warriors of Ephraim experienced their first victory. Unfortunately, this was short-lived.They had brought no food with them, only gold and silver, meaning to buy food from the Philistines. The way to the Land of Israel through the Land of the Philistines was a short distance away, and the men of Ephraim soon found themselves at the borders of the Philistines. There, near the town of Gath, they saw herds of cattle and sheep and a number of shepherds taking care of them.

The men of Ephraim offered to buy some cattle and sheep, but the shepherds refused. However, the Ephraimites, tired and hungry after the heavy fighting they had gone through, began to round up some of the animals by force. The shepherds then set up a loud cry which brought out a large number of residents from the nearby city of Gath. A bitter battle followed, with heavy casualties on both sides. The men of Gath then sent out an urgent call for help throughout the land: "The Jews are threatening us and our land; Come and help us stop them!"

 

The Philistines quickly mobilized all their fighting men and hurried to the aid of Gath. The men of Ephraim saw that they were greatly outnumbered and, without G-d's help, they would be lost. They looked out over the valley of Gath and saw the great number of their men who had fallen in battle (whom the Philistines did not even allow to be taken away for burial) and whose bodies were fated to be left there, neglected and uncared for. (It was hundreds of years later that the prophet Ezekiel, through a Divine prophecy, brought the bones back to life in his prophecy about the Valley of the Dry Bones).


"Let us look forward to that great day when He will take us out of our Golut, with many wonderful miracles"
Very few of the men of Ephraim managed to save themselves. They escaped to Egypt and poured out their bitter feelings to their old father Ephraim, Joseph's son.

"I warned you, my dear children, that you should not depend upon your own powers, nor on the help of other nations," Ephraim said to his war-saddened sons. "But do not lose hope, my children! The time of salvation is not far off. Put your trust in G-d. He will surely fulfill the promise He made to our grandfather Jacob. Let us look forward to that great day when He will take us out of our Golut, with many wonderful miracles."

At that time Ephraim's youngest son was born whom he named Beriah, commemorating the misfortune (Ra'ah) that befell his tribe.

Thirty years later Ephraim's words became a reality. The Jews left Egypt under the leadership of Moshe Rabbenu, accompanied by the many miracles described in the Haggadah, which stir the hearts of all Jews, wherever they are, to this very day.
 

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt25a07.htm

1 Chronicles Chapter 7 דִּבְרֵי הַיָּמִים

כ  וּבְנֵי אֶפְרַיִם, שׁוּתָלַח; וּבֶרֶד בְּנוֹ וְתַחַת בְּנוֹ, וְאֶלְעָדָה בְנוֹ וְתַחַת בְּנוֹ.   
20 And the sons of Ephraim: Shuthelah--and Bered was his son, and Tahath his son, and Eleadah his son, and Tahath his son,
כא  וְזָבָד בְּנוֹ וְשׁוּתֶלַח בְּנוֹ, וְעֵזֶר וְאֶלְעָד; וַהֲרָגוּם, אַנְשֵׁי-גַת הַנּוֹלָדִים בָּאָרֶץ, כִּי יָרְדוּ, לָקַחַת אֶת-מִקְנֵיהֶם.
   21 and Zabad his son, and Shuthelah his son--and Ezer, and Elead, whom the men of Gath that were born in the land slew, because they came down to take away their cattle.
כב  וַיִּתְאַבֵּל אֶפְרַיִם אֲבִיהֶם, יָמִים רַבִּים; וַיָּבֹאוּ אֶחָיו, לְנַחֲמוֹ.   
22 And Ephraim their father mourned many days, and his brethren came to comfort him.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

The question is why what sin caused this? Perhaps the breaking of the Covenant that Avraham made with Avimelech AND/or because they were considered Bnai Noah (before Matan Torah) at the time and STOLE from others. That is why they were killed.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/719411.html

 Some (mainly) anti-Zionist sources and claims on this.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Vv 20-29: Lineage of the children of Ephraim and their territories.

"And the sons of Ephraim. and the men of Gath who had been born in the land killed them because they came down to take their cattle" (vv 20-21). Targum on v 21 brings the story of how some of the tribe of Ephraim tried to leave Egypt and enter the Promised Land before the foreordained time, only to lose their lives: "And Zavad his son and Shoothelah his son and Ezer and Elad were leaders of the House of Ephraim and they calculated the date of the redemption from the time of God's Covenant between the Pieces with Abraham (Gen. 15:9ff), but they were mistaken because they should have counted from the day of the birth of Isaac. Thus they went out of Egypt thirty years before the end, because the Covenant between the Pieces was thirty years before the birth of Isaac. When they went out of Egypt, 200,000 armed warriors from the tribe of Ephraim went out with them, but the men of Gath, who were born in the land of the Philistines, killed them because they came down to capture their cattle" (Targum Rav Yosef on I Chron. 7:21). The Talmud (Sanhedrin 92b) states that the dead whose bones the prophet Ezekiel brought back to life (Ezekiel ch 37) were these fallen members of the tribe of Ephraim. Indeed, Rabbi Yehuda ben Beseira declared that he himself was descended from the dead whom Ezekiel had revived and that he possessed an ancestral pair of Tefilin handed down from them.

One wonders if they went to take the cattle merely to get rich or in order to use the skins for Tefilin. The reason the home-born Philistines of Gath had the advantage over them was because they were familiar with the terrain, while the Ephraimites did not know the escape routes. This teaches how well we need to learn the geography of our land.

The genealogy of the other members of the tribe of Ephraim, that of Noon (v 27) goes no further than his son Joshua (ibid.) because the latter had no sons. He did, however, have daughters (he was married to Rahab, the convert from Jericho ) and among his descendants were Huldah the Prophetess and Jeremiah (Megillah 14).

http://www.azamra.org/Bible/I%20Chron%207-8.htm

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,58892.msg529543.html#msg529543

 This came up before on JTF, I am reading through it for now, I will try to finish reading all of the thread, but this is a very interesting topic and let's see all that we find on it. (put together perhaps). Their will also likely be a shiur on this topic that will be posted in the (few) days to come. Stay put and let's see what we find and what will be said (in that shiur).

 Ok finished reading it. We can combine both threads and continue.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

(Anti-Zionist), perhaps I would like to counter some of the things in it, at the same time the ending is interesting.

http://www.truetorahjews.org/parsha_pearls/beshalach

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Removed, wrong translations and wrong wording such as "Palestine" when it isn't soo in the Gemarah. Soo I removed this site and will not B"H reference it.
 I think its a good chance to be an anti-Semitic site as well.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

   Sanhedrin 92B (different source) point by point.

(Beraisa - R. Eliezer): The dead that Yechezkeil revived stood up, sang Shirah and died.

2.   Question: What Shirah did they sing?

3.   Answer #1: "Hash-m Memis b'Tzedek u'Mechayeh b'Rachamim."

4.   Answer #2 (R. Yehoshua): "Hash-m Memis u'Mechayeh Morid She'ol va'Ya'al."

5.   R. Yehudah says, it was true. It was only a parable.

6.   Objection (R. Nechemyah): If it was true, it was not only a parable.

7.   Answer: He means, in truth, it was only a parable.

8.   R. Eliezer, son of R. Yosi ha'Galili says, the dead that Yechezkeil revived went to Eretz Yisrael, married women and fathered children.

9.   R. Yehudah ben Beseira: I descend from them. I have Tefilin from them!

(j)   Question: Who were the dead that Yechezkeil revived?

(k)   Answer #1 (Rav): They are descendants of Efrayim who miscalculated the Ketz (deadline for redemption) from Mitzrayim - "u'Vnei Efrayim... va'Haragum Anshei Gas";

(l)   Answer #2 (Shmuel): They are the people who denied Techiyas ha'Mesim - "...Yovshu Atzmoseinu v'Ovdah Sikvaseinu...";

(m)   Answer #3 (R. Yirmeyah bar Aba): They are people who lack any moisture (tinge) of a Mitzvah - "ha'Atzamos ha'Yveshos...";

(n)   Answer #4 (R. Yitzchak Nafcha): They are people who covered the Heichal with pictures of Shekatzim u'Rmashim (insects) - "Chol Tavnis Remes u'Vhemah Sheketz v'Chol Gilulei Beis Yisrael Mechukeh Al ha'Kir" (Maharsha - they wanted to show that just like insects are short-lived, because they have no bones, also our dry bones will never be revived).

(o)   Answer #5 (R. Yochanan): They are those whom Nebuchadnetzar killed in the valley of Dura.

1.   (R. Yochanan): The valley of Dura is from the river Eshel until Ravas. Some of the young Yisre'elim that Nebuchadnetzar exiled disgraced the sun with their beauty. The Bavli women spurted with blood (due to lust for them). They told their husbands, who told Nebuchadnetzar. He killed the youths, but the women still spurted (the youths still radiated). He commanded to trample on the bodies.

http://dafyomi.co.il/sanhedrin/points/sn-ps-092.htm

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

(Don't agree with it, but bring anything and everything on the topic to discuss, agree or disagree with).

92b----------------------------------------92b

2) THE CHILDREN OF EFRAIM WHO LEFT EGYPT TOO EARLY
QUESTION: The Gemara says that Bnei Efraim left Mitzrayim thirty years before the destined time in their impatience to end the slavery. Consequently, they were decimated by the Plishtim. The Midrash (Shemos Rabah 20:11) explains that they calculated the 400 years of slavery from the Bris Bein ha'Besarim rather than from the birth of Yitzchak, and that is why they thought that the slavery ended thirty years before it actually ended.

Why specifically did Bnei Efraim, the grandchildren of Yosef, make this tragic error?

ANSWER: RAV YAKOV KAMINETZKY zt'l (in Emes l'Yakov, Bereishis 41:51, 48:5, and Shemos 13:17) provides enlightening insights on this subject. He explains that it is easy to understand why it was the children of Yosef, more than the other Shevatim, who were impatient to leave Mitzrayim. It was their father, Yosef, who built up the nation of Mitzrayim and made it the wealthiest nation in the world. Now, a new king rose to power who not only did not repay or show gratitude to Yosef's family, but he spread rumors that "these unwanted foreigners are the source of all of our troubles." He made the people think that "this Jewish king paid off the royalty to give him an important position, and then brought his entire family to the land. They hate us and cannot wait to seize the opportunity to conquer us." No one could be so patient as to endure such a lack of gratitude and not let it affect him.

Moreover, the children of Yosef had weaker Emunah because they were born in Mitzrayim, the land of Tum'ah, and therefore they were more vulnerable to making a mistake and trying to get out too soon. That is why Yakov Avinu gave the children of Yosef a special blessing, in addition to the blessing that all of the Shevatim received. He saw that they needed extra help from Hash-m to succeed in persevering in Mitzrayim.

This is why they counted the 400 years of slavery from the time of the Bris Bein ha'Besarim. At the Bris Ben ha'Besarim, Hash-m gave Eretz Yisrael to Avraham, and, nevertheless, in the eyes of those living there he was just a visitor, a foreigner. The children of Yosef, more than any of the other tribes, could identify with the feeling of distress of a person who knows that he is a fully-privileged citizen and yet is treated like a foreigner.

Why, though, was it specifically the children of Efraim who stumbled and not the children of Menasheh?

Rav Yakov explains that Efraim was born later. By the time he was born, the culture of Mitzrayim had already had more of an impact on Yosef's life than when Menasheh was born. This is reflected in their names. Menasheh's name was given to him as an expression of gratitude to Hash-m for ending Yosef's suffering -- the removal of adverse circumstances. Efraim's name was given as an expression of gratitude to Hash-m for causing Yosef to multiply and succeed in the land (Bereishis 42:51-52) -- the presence of favorable circumstances. He already was accepting the positive aspects of being in Mitzrayim, and not just focusing on the fact that he was no longer suffering. The Egyptian influence is also evident in the phonemic composition of the name Efraim, as Egyptian names give emphasis to the letters "Peh" and "Reish," as in the names Shifra, Pu'ah, Pharaoh, Tzafnas Pane'ach, and Potifar.

Rav Yakov suggests that this is why Yakov Avinu "adopted" Efraim as his student. Menasheh was on more firm footing, which is why he was more comfortable with Lashon ha'Kodesh, as Rashi writes (Bereishis 42:23) that he was the interpreter between Yosef and his brothers. Efraim, on the other hand, was raised with more of the Egyptian culture and he did not speak Lashon ha'Kodesh as fluently as Menasheh did. Yakov Avinu, therefore, tried to influence him and teach him so that he would grow in the ways of his fathers. Yakov's worries came to fruition when Efraim's children attempted to leave Mitzrayim before the destined time.


http://dafyomi.co.il/sanhedrin/insites/sn-dt-092.htm

[edu]

I am reposting what I answered on the other thread
There are a number of differences between the kind of actions that Rabbi Kahane expected from us and the situation that the tribe of Ephraim were in.
I will choose to dwell on the point that has the most educational value, which I also raised in the Torah forum of JTF, regarding Avraham's {Abraham's} zeal at G-d's command to try to sacrifice his son.
A point was raised how to understand the statement:
Greater is the one who is commanded than the one who is not commanded. (Kiddushin 32a)

Ramchal (Moshe Chayim Luzzatto) in Daat Tevunote Moshe translated into English by Feldheim Publishers under the title The Knowing Heart, explains the intention of the Sages in the following way.
He says that not all people are equal, in the sense, that 2 people can do the same act, where in the case of the first individual because he his very holy, it will have a tremendous impact on the world, while the second individual who is not that holy will not have much of an impact on the world when he does the act or it might even be a sin for him.
He gives the example that Yonatan Ben Uziel was so holy that when he learned Torah, a bird that flew over his head was burnt up, due to the tremendous spiritual energy, coming out of his learning. While thousands of others who are not so holy, will not cause this. A second example, he brings is the eating of kodshim, holy foods, such as certain parts of the body of sacrificed animals. If a cohen, a descendant of Aharon, who has been properly prepared, eats them he performs a commandment. If a non-cohen eats them he does a sin.
He then continues to explain, so too, at Sinai, when the Jews were commanded to perform the Torah, they were also imbued with a greater holiness, so that their performance of the commandments would have a greater spiritual impact on the world, than those who do the commandments out of choice.
In light of this see the words of Rashi to the Talmud, tractate chulin 100b that the sons of Yaakov {Jacob} before the giving of the torah were classified as Noahides.
Therefore, the tribe of Ephraim who were simply classified as children of Noah, who had less holiness than the nation of Israel, after the giving of the Torah at Mount sinai, can not serve as a "proof" against Rabbi Kahane.
This is in addition to the fact that  Rabbi Kahane seemed to back better tactics.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Connected-

 Rabbi Jose ben Hanina taught that God did not lead the Israelites by the way of the land of the Philistines (as reported in Exodus 13:17) because Abimelech's grandson was still alive, and God did not want the Israelites to violate Abraham's oath of Genesis 21:23–24 not to deal falsely with Abimelech, his son, or his grandson. [53]

[53]
 Genesis Rabbah 54:2. Land of Israel, 5th century. Reprinted in, e.g., Midrash Rabbah: Genesis. Translated by H. Freedman and Maurice Simon, volume 1, pages 476–77. London: Soncino Press, 1939. ISBN 0-900689-38-2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beshalach#cite_ref-53