Shalom

[Dan Ben Noah]

Shalom

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Thank the sick American people for this. America was doomed back when it justified the Adulterer-in-Chief and it has been a slippery slope ever since.

[Manch]

DOOMED!

[muman613]

I have not seen it suggested elsewhere so possibly I am the only one who thought of it...

Did anyone else consider that the abduction of the three Israeli Yeshiva students occurred on the same day (or in proximity to) the Perversion Pride Parade? Could it be the wrath of Hashem that permitted our enemies to harm us because we permitted these perverted freaks to 'do their thing' in the streets of Tel Aviv?

PS: According to their webpage the parade was Friday June 13th, the same exact day as the abduction...

For those interested in verifying this, I found the information here...

http://www.gaytlvguide.com/component/content/article/12-fp-articles/70-gay-pride-parade-tel-aviv-2014

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

Our enemies do like to use certain dates...

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I have not seen it suggested elsewhere so possibly I am the only one who thought of it...

Did anyone else consider that the abduction of the three Israeli Yeshiva students occurred on the same day (or in proximity to) the Perversion Pride Parade? Could it be the wrath of Hashem that permitted our enemies to harm us because we permitted these perverted freaks to 'do their thing' in the streets of Tel Aviv?

PS: According to their webpage the parade was Friday June 13th, the same exact day as the abduction...

For those interested in verifying this, I found the information here...

http://www.gaytlvguide.com/component/content/article/12-fp-articles/70-gay-pride-parade-tel-aviv-2014

Most Israelis support or at least tolerate "gay rights", but these three Jewish kids and their families are devout religious people so I assume that they do not, at least I hope. If good Jews are paying the price for evil Jews, that will only heap on the judgment the latter will face when they stand at the Great White Throne.

[muman613]

Most Israelis support or at least tolerate "gay rights", but these three Jewish kids and their families are devout religious people so I assume that they do not, at least I hope. If good Jews are paying the price for evil Jews, that will only heap on the judgment the latter will face when they stand at the Great White Throne.

Indeed what you say is true... But Jews everywhere are held responsible for what the Jewish people do... It is quite possible according to this theological imperative that the righteous who live in the land will suffer the same punishment as the wicked.

But it is true that each wicked one is judged as an individual and punished as an individual...

See this article from JewishAnswers which touches on this topic:

Collective or Individual Punishment

Hi, I was learning Pirkei Avos recently, and came across a statement, which talks about certain punishments G-d gives for certain sins that are done. The commentators speak about this being “Measure for a Measure.” For example, if only a portion of the Jews give Maaser, G-d will only give a portion of rain to the Jews, and there will be a portion of drought.

My question is, that many times in the Tanach there are cases where one person sins, and the entire nation is punished for that sin; while other times, like the statement of the Rabbis mentioned above, only those who sinned get punished. I was wondering if there was a pattern among these times. When are the times when everyone will get punished for one person’s sin, and when are the times when only those who sinned are punished?

This is a very complex subject (as I’m sure you’re aware) and I’m afraid that I’m only able to offer you a few basic “chapter headings”.

First of all, there is a concept of “arvus” – that each Jew has a responsibility to ensure that his neighbor observes the Torah appropriately. If individuals sin because we, as a community, failed to create an environment of sufficient moral caliber, then our flaws have played a roll – and it is reasonable that we should share the burden of responsibility.

One example of this is the theft of Achan (Joshua chapter 7). Why does the prophet say “the entire nation has sinned”? Wasn’t it only Achan who stole? Rabbi Dessler wrote that had the nation projected an appropriate contempt for theft as part of their regular social activities, then Achan would likely never have risked paying the social cost of his actions.

This is a bit like the group MADD which, presumeably, is made up of individuals horrified by the carnage caused by drunk drivers who then set out to express themselves so aggresively and publically that, over time, it simply became less acceptable for an drunk to drive. Had they not done what they did, it is likely that we would all be responsible for each alcohol-related injury simply by virtue of our silence.

There are also specific times of general destruction (“shmad“) in which the “mashchis” (destroyer) is permitted to ply his craft without discriminating between good and evil. The Talmud in tractate Shabbos does, however, add a suggestion that, even then, there must be some guilt for a someone to be hurt.

Finally, Deuteronomy 29 records the covenant between the Jews and God in which this mutual responsibility is formulated – but verse 28 specifically limits communal responsibilty to cases in which an individual’s sin is known and knowable (see Rashi).

I hope these few ideas are of some help.

With my best regards,

Rabbi Boruch Clinton

Ottawa, Canada

[muman613]

This excerpt also sheds some light on the view of the Torah on Collective Punishment.... Of course this issue is brought up concerning the action of Shimon and Levi against the wicked city of Shechem (who was raped)...


http://www.aish.com/ci/s/48898237.html
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This is not a new issue. One of the most shocking incidents recorded in the Bible is the destruction of the city of Shechem by Shimon and Levi, in apparent retaliation for an act of terror -- the rape and kidnapping of their sister Dinah, by Shechem (the son of the ruler of the city of Shechem).

Maimonides substantiates the killings on the basis that Shechem was a lawless society which supported the terrorist, harbored him, and agreed to protect him against the retaliation. Nachmanides, meanwhile, explains that the Canaanite society (of which the city of Shechem was a part) had violated certain laws which carry a death penalty.

Both positions are conceptually entangled with the innocent bystander problem. Shimon and Levi must have known that many innocent people who had never transgressed against any serious law, and who did not condone Shechem's terrorist act, resided among the population they annihilated. What is more, they couldn't have known who was innocent and who was guilty, and in fact, they acted against the population indiscriminately, killing the entire male population.

We find that God seems to follow the policy of collective punishment as well. The chastisement portions of the Torah (Leviticus 26 and Deut. 28) apply a collective principle in both directions. When society is good, the wicked enjoy prosperity along with the rest. When society is not the way it should be, the righteous suffer the tribulations of exile along with everyone else.

It would thus appear that even God doesn't subscribe to a justice policy based purely on individual considerations.

It is legitimate to wonder why. Especially in the case of God, who is all-seeing and all-powerful, this principle cannot be based on the practical difficulties of distinguishing between guilty and innocent parties living together in close proximity. There must be a good reason why following such a policy is morally justified.

THE COMMUNAL FACTOR

In the next world on Judgment Day we will all stand before God as individuals. In this world we are all integral parts of our social group. Our cultural environment has far greater impact on our lives than do our physical surroundings, creating a two-way dependent relationship between the individual and his social group.

Each individual contributes to the collective power and prestige of the group by adding particular talents and activities to the collective whole. In turn, the resources of the collective (the sum total of all those individual contributions) map out the parameters of possibilities that life offers each individual.

When the collective whole is intolerable and evil, the individual is an inextricable part of the mixture -- by virtue of having added his capabilities and talents. Those committing the evil can only accomplish their designs by drawing on the collective resources available. As each individual contributes, he or she is justly regarded as a part of the intolerable mass.

But isn't collective punishment one of the most abhorrent tools of evil tyrannies?

Yes, but labels can be quite confusing. Historically, abhorrent collective punishment has arisen in situations that were unjust to begin with. For example, the Nazis employed collective punishment as a means of ruthlessly stamping out any budding resistance. If one concentration camp victim got out of line, 50 more inmates would be executed.

But concentration camps were an outrage to begin with. And such abhorrent phenomena necessarily survive only on the strength of the terror they inspire in their victims.

In fact, collective punishment is abhorrent primarily because it is a sub-branch of punishment, a system that is abhorrent in its entirety. Punishment for its own sake is always a valueless process, which corrects nothing and only serves to vent the pent-up rage of the person or people inflicting it.

JEWISH VIEW OF PUNISHMENT

Taking note of the futility of punishment for its own sake, Jewish tradition teaches that all Divine punishment is therapeutic, and all human punishment is defensive. God's punishments are in the nature of painful operations required to remove a spiritual cancer, and the court-ordered punishments of the Torah are all based on the principle of “you shall destroy the evil from your midst” (Deut. 13:6). This phrase is mentioned in the Torah no less than seven times, always in connection with capital punishment. Untreated evil is a festering sore that destroys healthy societies. The execution of evildoers is to be regarded as a defense mechanism.

All physical violence is rooted in spiritual evil. As Maimonides explained, in a society intolerant of baseless violence inflicted on defenseless victims, Shechem would have restrained his desire to rape Dinah. When society tolerates evil people, it raises the ceiling of what is considered conceivable behavior by those prone to violence, and ultimately this tolerance translates directly into injury inflicted on the innocent.

The Torah commands us to defend ourselves against such evil by destroying it from our midst.
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[drlmg]

The administration has stopped development funding for desperately poor Uganda because of Uganda’s new and, some would say, harsh laws governing homosexual activity. The halted funding included money to stop the spread of HIV/AIDS.

So these idiots think it is more important to push a gay agenda than to aid in the survival of Ugandans? They are not worthy of living if they do not wholeheartedly support and encourage a homosexual lifestyle? Shameful... That indirectly shows what oBozo must think of people like the ones here who protest gay marriage and those opposed to encouraging homosexuality.

[syyuge]

Promoting Sodomy is now a "U.S. Foreign Policy Priority" >> That is why the value of dollar is increasing day by day.

[angryChineseKahanist]

no surprise. we have a married sodomite in the oval orifice.

[muman613]

Now we know what this Rasha meant when he parroted the 'Fundamental Change' for America. His fundamental change was the destruction of the America which we all knew and loved and the establishment of a fascist system in which the most wicked are promoted to high positions.