The Shalit Deal Revisited: Why HaRav Ovadia Yosef ztz"l was Wrong

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=785577254815317&fref=nf

[muman613]

Shalom,

I watched this video and did not learn anything which I was not saying at the time. I believe I posted some of the very points which the rabbi made. Specifically that we are not to pay a ransom which is beyond 'the accepted' normal rate, not a disproportionate ransom (1 for 1000). Also concerning 'land for peace' we all have been saying this for years. It was based on an unreasonable assumption, that the arabs truly wanted to live in peace with the Jewish nation. Of course we have learned the hard way that these arabs do not want to live with the Jewish people, rather they want to kill us, and there is no land for terror which is condoned by our Torah.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Shalom,

I watched this video and did not learn anything which I was not saying at the time. I believe I posted some of the very points which the rabbi made. Specifically that we are not to pay a ransom which is beyond 'the accepted' normal rate, not a disproportionate ransom (1 for 1000). Also concerning 'land for peace' we all have been saying this for years. It was based on an unreasonable assumption, that the arabs truly wanted to live in peace with the Jewish nation. Of course we have learned the hard way that these arabs do not want to live with the Jewish people, rather they want to kill us, and there is no land for terror which is condoned by our Torah.

Yes but for a Rav to directly dispute Rav Ovadiah's position ( which he also did at the time of the decision) is a big deal and certainly out of the ordinary.

No offense, but you or me or a JTFer disputing Rav Yosef doesn't quite carry the same weight no matter how right we are

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Given the nature of our "world" it is very positive that there is a Rabbi like Rabbi Bar Hayim (may there be many more like him bezrat Hashem!) Who has the courage to openly express disagreement and to refute the points of a gadol like Rav Yosef.  It bodes well for our future, especially if this kind of openness and rabbinic courage would catch on and transcend the "hegemony" currently in place where the inflexible galut style reigns supreme and unchallenged due to rabbinic fear and the negation of independent thiought among scholars.

[muman613]

Given the nature of our "world" it is very positive that there is a Rabbi like Rabbi Bar Hayim (may there be many more like him bezrat Hashem!) Who has the courage to openly express disagreement and to refute the points of a gadol like Rav Yosef.  It bodes well for our future, especially if this kind of openness and rabbinic courage would catch on and transcend the "hegemony" currently in place where the inflexible galut style reigns supreme and unchallenged due to rabbinic fear and the negation of independent thiought among scholars.

I suppose I agree. While not many rabbis have openly spoken like this, I have heard some of my rabbis say openly within our community that 'land for peace' is not the halacha, as did the Chabad Rebbe who said giving away any part of the land is forbidden.

The only way I can understand the mis-understanding of the issue by Rav Ovadiah is due to his underestimating the hatred of the arab world. We JTF members have our eyes open to the threat, and while Rav Ovadiah was Sephardic and should have known not to trust them... I suspect he had some hope that they would some day moderate, and not hate the Jewish people so much. I myself understand that believing that is just fantasy, and reality dictates that you cannot show weakness to these kinds of enemies.