Author Topic: Shmitta began only in year 21 of Yehoshua & Israel's entrance to the land  (Read 2869 times)

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Offline edu

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ספרא בהר פרשה א

 (ב) כי תבאו יכול משבאו לעבר הירדן תלמוד לומר אל הארץ, ארץ המיוחדת, יכול משבאו לעמון ומואב תלמוד לומר אשר אני נותן לכם ולא עמון ומואב, מניין אתה אומר כיבשו אבל לא חילקו, חילקו למשפחות, ולא חילקו לבתי אבות ואין כל אחד ואחד מכיר את חלקו, יכול יהו חייבים בשמיטה תלמוד לומר שדך שיהא כל אחד ואחד מכיר שדהו, כרמך שיהיה כל אחד ואחד מכיר את כרמו. (ג) נמצאת אתה אומר כיון שעברו ישראל את הירדן נתחייבו בחלה ובערלה ובחדש, הגיע ששה עשר בניסן נתחייבו בעומר, שהו חמשים יום נתחייבו בשתי הלחם, לארבע עשרה שנה נתחייבו במעשרות, התחילו מונים לשמיטה לעשרים ואחת עשו שמיטה, לששים וארבע עשו יובל.
Sifra on Parshat Behar (Vayikra/Leviticus chapter 25) states:
"When you enter into the land which I give you, then shall the land keep a sabbath for Hashem (G-d)"
You might think when you enter the bank of the Jordan, thus scripture says to the land, that is to say the special land. You might think when they enter into Amon and Moav, thus scripture says, which I give you and not Amon and Moav.
 From where do we know that if they conquered it but did not divide it or divided it to families but not households and not everyone recognized his portion, (that the Shmitta, the Sabbath of the land does not yet take effect); you might think they would be obligated thus scripture says (Vayikra/Leviticus 25:3) Your field, namely, that everyone recognizes his field, Your vineyard that everyone recognizes his vineyard.
It turns out that you say, when Israel passed over the Jordan they became obligated in Chalah, Orla and Chadash. The 16th of Nissan arrived and they became obligated in Omer. They delayed 50 days and and were obligated in the 2 Loaves of Bread (of Shavuot). In the 14th year (presumably after the 7 years of conquest of the land and the 7 years of division of the land) they became obligated in tithes and started counting the Shmitta cycle. In the 21st year they did Shmitta (the Sabbath of the land). In the 64th they did Yovail (Jubilee year)

Offline edu

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Re: Shmitta began only in year 21 of Yehoshua & Israel's entrance to the land
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2014, 05:17:56 AM »
Rambam as translated by one of the Chabad sites (let me make myself clear, that I am not Chabad follower) states in Hilchot Issurei Biah 14 Halacha 8:
We accept resident aliens only during the era when the Jubilee year is observed.
 In the present era, even if a gentile makes a commitment to observe the entire Torah with the exception of one minor point, he is not accepted.
A question that needs to be raised is the following. We have a tradition that Yehoshua (Joshua) before conquering the land of Israel offered the 7 nations of Canaan peace before the war began.
Given that the Yovail that it to say the Jubilee year was not yet in operation during Yehoshua's conquest, did his peace plan involve allowing the 7 nations to continue to remain in some way in the land of Israel or did the peace deal that he proposed demand some sort of non-violent transfer?

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Shmitta began only in year 21 of Yehoshua & Israel's entrance to the land
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2014, 10:51:40 AM »
Involved in being able to stat in the land . some did make peace and stayed.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline muman613

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Re: Shmitta began only in year 21 of Yehoshua & Israel's entrance to the land
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2014, 04:47:43 PM »
Have you found any problem with the Chabad translation? Does using Chabad website make you a Chabadnik? I don't think so.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline edu

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Re: Shmitta began only in year 21 of Yehoshua & Israel's entrance to the land
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2014, 04:42:52 AM »
Quote from Tag-MehirTzedek
Quote
some did make peace and stayed.
It says in the book of Yehoshua(Joshua) 11:19 "There was no city that made peace with the children of Israel except for the Chivi the inhabitants of Giv'on; all they took by war".
This peace came about because the people of Israel were tricked as described in Yehoshua(Joshua) chapter 9 and it was accompanied by an oath.
And even after the peace, it's not clear to me what was the status of these people.
It seems at least according to Rashi on the Talmud that these people became Jews or quasi-Jews and not resident aliens.
Rashi in his commentary to Sanhedrin 51a says that the Netinim who are the descendants of the inhabitants of Giv'on (Gibeonites) even though it is prohibited for a regular Jew to intermarry with them, if the marriage took place it is still valid.
This seems to imply to me that the inhabitants of Giv'on according to Rashi took on semi-Jewish status and weren't just resident aliens.
If a resident alien marries with a Jew the marriage doesn't take effect at all.
Therefore it remains to me unclear to me what type of peace conditions was Yehoshua willing to offer the 7 nations of Canaan who did not want to convert to Judaism.
Was it a peace that would allow them to stay in the land?
One final point, Rachav (see Yehoshua chapter 2) ended up converting to Judaism and according to the Talmud she married Yehoshua.
At another time it is worthy to discuss why there was no prohibition for Yehoshua to marry Rachav while there is a prohibition for a Jew to marry the descendants of the inhabitants of Giv'on.

Offline edu

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Re: Shmitta began only in year 21 of Yehoshua & Israel's entrance to the land
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2014, 04:48:20 PM »
See Talmud Yevamot 78b for one distinction between the inhabitants of Giv'on (Gibeonites) and Rachav. The Talmud uses
II Shmuel/Samuel XXI, 2-4, 6. to explain how marriages became permanently forbidden with the descendants of the inhabitants of Giv'on.