Author Topic: Do they want Jews make Aliyah?  (Read 17565 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Yehudayaakov

  • Pro JTFer
  • *****
  • Posts: 740
Do they want Jews make Aliyah?
« on: October 10, 2014, 05:26:04 AM »
And how Israel wants to be perceived depending on whether you are Jew, foreign countries, an Israeli Jew?
 
For a Jew living in exile ---} the message is we are Jews ( as though saying would mean that we will never hurt you) You are loved so come to Israel (This is their  killer argument to persuade us to come and as proof you are given an aid package upon your arrival which represent nothing and is more of a carot than anything else) you are protected only in Israel no other country would protect as does the Israel government  ( it's unlikely as demonstrated by... everything in the news from a Jewish worker thrown out of a building by Arabs to riots raging in Jerusalem...) They do nothing while saying a lot more!

 Toward foreign countries ----} they're saying nothing actually, not really the government says watch what we are doing that's the message we send to you: on the Temple mount in YehudaShomron, cave of the Patriarchs...etc the authority harm Jew so watch what we do not what we say (  directed to Jew)

 To Israeli Jews ...nothing you are a second class citizen in the Jewish country, arabs get free university healtcare, electricity whatever ...etc if you got attacked by arabs you will get arrested for defending yourself but to anyone who wants to come to Israel put aside any aid, it's a mitsvah to come fulfill it.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 03:19:00 PM by Chaim Ben Pesach »

Online ChabadKahanist

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4290
Re: Do they want Jews make Alyhia?
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2014, 07:17:49 AM »
They prefer Russian Goyim over  real Jews just ask Chaim.
A Russian Goy is more welcome than many good religious  Jews.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2014, 01:42:51 PM by ChabadKahanist »

Offline dimitry

  • Junior JTFer
  • **
  • Posts: 97
Re: Do they want Jews make Alyhia?
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2014, 10:49:30 AM »
They prefer Russian Goyim of real Jews just ask Chaim.
A Russian Goy is more welcome than many good religious  Jews.

More racist comments, towards the best citizens of Israel.

Russian-Israelis vote for right-wing parties, serve in army, live in Judea and Samaria disproportionately, pay taxes, and usually have Jewish ancestors who were persecuted during the holocaust (unlike American Jews who were too busy reading the New York Times and pretending the holocaust wasn't happening). Russian-Israelis are also the group who is most wise about the Arabs and their genocidal intentions.

American Jews are the opposite (they vote for left-wing parties and do everything they can to corrupt Israel)

Online ChabadKahanist

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4290
Re: Do they want Jews make Alyhia?
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2014, 01:40:35 PM »
More racist comments, towards the best citizens of Israel.

Russian-Israelis vote for right-wing parties, serve in army, live in Judea and Samaria disproportionately, pay taxes, and usually have Jewish ancestors who were persecuted during the holocaust (unlike American Jews who were too busy reading the New York Times and pretending the holocaust wasn't happening). Russian-Israelis are also the group who is most wise about the Arabs and their genocidal intentions.

American Jews are the opposite (they vote for left-wing parties and do everything they can to corrupt Israel)
It is not racist at all & I am speaking about Russian GOYIM as I fought for Russian Jews in my JDL days,but 1000's of Goyim came from the FSU with forged papers  or claiming that they had some distant Jewish relative.
I came to Israel to be in a Jewish homeland not to be with the descendants of those who made pogroms against my family in Russia see www.pogrom.org.il this page was put together by a real Russian Jew not somebody with forged papers or claiming some distant Jewish relative just to reep the benefits which were meant for Jews.
Chaim can NOT set foot in the country & others are denied aliyah or in the same situation as Chaim.
These Goyim do not belong here only real Jews do.
Real Russian Jews are great & deserve to be here they do not need to be with those who persecuted them back in Russia & the Goyim that came should be sent back or encouraged to go elsewhere!!!!
Real Russian Jews are right wing & not like the Goyim who also.

Offline dimitry

  • Junior JTFer
  • **
  • Posts: 97
Re: Do they want Jews make Alyhia?
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2014, 11:00:37 PM »
It is not racist at all & I am speaking about Russian GOYIM as I fought for Russian Jews in my JDL days,but 1000's of Goyim came from the FSU with forged papers  or claiming that they had some distant Jewish relative.
I came to Israel to be in a Jewish homeland not to be with the descendants of those who made pogroms against my family in Russia see www.pogrom.org.il this page was put together by a real Russian Jew not somebody with forged papers or claiming some distant Jewish relative just to reep the benefits which were meant for Jews.
Chaim can NOT set foot in the country & others are denied aliyah or in the same situation as Chaim.
These Goyim do not belong here only real Jews do.
Real Russian Jews are great & deserve to be here they do not need to be with those who persecuted them back in Russia & the Goyim that came should be sent back or encouraged to go elsewhere!!!!
Real Russian Jews are right wing & not like the Goyim who also.

The guy who made that website is a senile old pensioner, who has 'lost his marbles'.

It's true that not all Russian-speaking olim have a strong Jewish identity, but we all had one Jewish grandparent (or married to someone who did). (And sorry to disappoint you, but people don't forge documents to come to Israel, since the standard of living in Israel is not much higher than in Russia - anyone who did forge documents would either be doing it for criminal reasons or would instantly try to move on to a wealthy country like the US or Europe. They would not settle in Israel and serve in the IDF - which is not a great career option).

Aside from that, we are the most right-wing demographic in Israel, we disproportionately living in Judea and Samaria, serve in the army, many sacrifice our lives for Israel, the vast majority stand up for conservative family values and make up a huge proportion of the nation's scientists and engineers.

(I know that you will mention something about 'mafia' - but this is mainly from the Mountain and Bukharan Jews in Russia - and in Israel it is predominantly the Moroccan Jews).

[On the opposite spectrum are the mainstream American Jewish community, who support left-wing politics, vote for Obama, oppose family values, try to push for multiculturalism, etc. The left-wing American Jews are the greatest threat that Israel faces.]




-----------

As for why Chaim  can't set foot in Israel. This is something completely unrelated to Russian-Jews, and is because of the US government. 

Online ChabadKahanist

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4290
Re: Do they want Jews make Alyhia?
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2014, 01:32:46 AM »
The guy who made that website is a senile old pensioner, who has 'lost his marbles'.

It's true that not all Russian-speaking olim have a strong Jewish identity, but we all had one Jewish grandparent (or married to someone who did). (And sorry to disappoint you, but people don't forge documents to come to Israel, since the standard of living in Israel is not much higher than in Russia - anyone who did forge documents would either be doing it for criminal reasons or would instantly try to move on to a wealthy country like the US or Europe. They would not settle in Israel and serve in the IDF - which is not a great career option).

Aside from that, we are the most right-wing demographic in Israel, we disproportionately living in Judea and Samaria, serve in the army, many sacrifice our lives for Israel, the vast majority stand up for conservative family values and make up a huge proportion of the nation's scientists and engineers.

(I know that you will mention something about 'mafia' - but this is mainly from the Mountain and Bukharan Jews in Russia - and in Israel it is predominantly the Moroccan Jews).

[On the opposite spectrum are the mainstream American Jewish community, who support left-wing politics, vote for Obama, oppose family values, try to push for multiculturalism, etc. The left-wing American Jews are the greatest threat that Israel faces.]




-----------

As for why Chaim  can't set foot in Israel. This is something completely unrelated to Russian-Jews, and is because of the US government.
Let Chaim comment on that,but many of the Russian non-Jews are Jew-haters & I have a neighbor Olga who has not one Jewish relative & came here just for the aliyah benefits & yes the Gruzinis & the Morrocans are mafiosos.(Olga is not a Jew-hater & has been a Shabbat Goya for us many times & has done excellent tailoring for us)
Many of those with forged documents used Israel as a stepping stone to go elsewhere but many are still here.
And that site is truthful & everything on there has been reported on local media.

Offline dimitry

  • Junior JTFer
  • **
  • Posts: 97
Re: Do they want Jews make Alyhia?
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2014, 07:56:27 PM »
You're mixing up different things.

There are many olim in Israel who are 1/2 or 1/4 Jewish (or the non-Jewish spouses of them), or otherwise ethnic Jews who lack Jewish identity or interest in the religion, or who follow Christianity.

The Soviet Union tried to abolish and end Jewish identity, with an end of religious practice, and a high percentage of inter-marriage. What you have in Israel is simply a result of this policy.

Either you can write the community off in a racist way, or you can see it as having been saved in the last moment. (The American Jews are not far behind in this area, and unlike us, they won't be saved by a mass aliyah.) Regardless of lack of religiosity, it is probably the most patriotic community overall - and the one with the least proportion of the population holding a subscription to haaretz.
 
As for the website, it is written by some old pensioner (who had clearly suffered anti-semitic bullying in Soviet times and developed an obsession about it). He tells a few stories a couple of small articles, and then over-exaggerates and mixes different things together in the same way as people do on this website.

The 'false documents' are a red herring. Life is overall easier in Russia compared to Israel, and the cost of living in Russia is very low. Israel is not paved with gold - in fact the complete opposite. So no, the only area where this would be of interest would be for criminal activities or for travelling onto other countries. Aside from criminals or people trying to get into the West (which Israel is not particularly helpful for), this is not something you would be interested in.   (If you made false documents, you would do it to immigrate to the EU or North America.) And let alone would anyone serve in the army (unpaid) or endure the life-style in Israel. The final issue, is that the consular verification is quite strict in this area (they don't care about many things - such as whether immigrants have a criminal record - but they care about proof of your Jewish ancestors and ask for original documents).


Let Chaim comment on that,but many of the Russian non-Jews are Jew-haters
We already know that Chaim nowadays hates Russian-speaking olim, despite having gone to prison for them in 1980s.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2014, 08:07:32 PM by dimitry »

Online ChabadKahanist

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4290
Re: Do they want Jews make Alyhia?
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2014, 12:00:04 AM »
You're mixing up different things.

There are many olim in Israel who are 1/2 or 1/4 Jewish (or the non-Jewish spouses of them), or otherwise ethnic Jews who lack Jewish identity or interest in the religion, or who follow Christianity.

The Soviet Union tried to abolish and end Jewish identity, with an end of religious practice, and a high percentage of inter-marriage. What you have in Israel is simply a result of this policy.

Either you can write the community off in a racist way, or you can see it as having been saved in the last moment. (The American Jews are not far behind in this area, and unlike us, they won't be saved by a mass aliyah.) Regardless of lack of religiosity, it is probably the most patriotic community overall - and the one with the least proportion of the population holding a subscription to haaretz.
 
As for the website, it is written by some old pensioner (who had clearly suffered anti-semitic bullying in Soviet times and developed an obsession about it). He tells a few stories a couple of small articles, and then over-exaggerates and mixes different things together in the same way as people do on this website.

The 'false documents' are a red herring. Life is overall easier in Russia compared to Israel, and the cost of living in Russia is very low. Israel is not paved with gold - in fact the complete opposite. So no, the only area where this would be of interest would be for criminal activities or for travelling onto other countries. Aside from criminals or people trying to get into the West (which Israel is not particularly helpful for), this is not something you would be interested in.   (If you made false documents, you would do it to immigrate to the EU or North America.) And let alone would anyone serve in the army (unpaid) or endure the life-style in Israel. The final issue, is that the consular verification is quite strict in this area (they don't care about many things - such as whether immigrants have a criminal record - but they care about proof of your Jewish ancestors and ask for original documents).

We already know that Chaim nowadays hates Russian-speaking olim, despite having gone to prison for them in 1980s.
Not having a Jewish mother = Goy & we don't want Goyim coming in on aliyah & getting benefits meant for Jews.
Want be a Jew either convert to Judaism by an Orthodox rabbi(which means having a brit mila which we all know you people are adverse to) or have a Jewish mother.
Chaim does not hate Russian Olim & neither do I & he did NOT fight & get arrested for uncircumcised Goyim to come here he fought & went to prison so Jews real Jews with a Jewish mother or who had a conversion by an Orthodox rabbi can come here.
You want to remain Goyim fine by us but no aliyah but if you want to be here & have citizenship you have to go through a naturalization process like in other countries but no automatic citizenship for non-Jews that right belongs to Jews only or else you can be residents with something akin to a US green card.
There is no such a thing as 1/2 or 1/3 or 1/4 Jewish Dmitry either you are Jewish or you are  not this is like being 1/2 or 1/3 or 1/4 pregnant either a woman is pregnant or she is not.
You are the one that is mixed up as to what a Jew is.
Halacha defines that & if that bothers you tough!!!!

Offline dimitry

  • Junior JTFer
  • **
  • Posts: 97
Re: Do they want Jews make Alyhia?
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2014, 04:20:47 PM »
Not having a Jewish mother = Goy & we don't want Goyim coming in on aliyah & getting benefits meant for Jews.
Want be a Jew either convert to Judaism by an Orthodox rabbi(which means having a brit mila which we all know you people are adverse to) or have a Jewish mother.
Chaim does not hate Russian Olim & neither do I & he did NOT fight & get arrested for uncircumcised Goyim to come here he fought & went to prison so Jews real Jews with a Jewish mother or who had a conversion by an Orthodox rabbi can come here.
You want to remain Goyim fine by us but no aliyah but if you want to be here & have citizenship you have to go through a naturalization process like in other countries but no automatic citizenship for non-Jews that right belongs to Jews only or else you can be residents with something akin to a US green card.
There is no such a thing as 1/2 or 1/3 or 1/4 Jewish Dmitry either you are Jewish or you are  not this is like being 1/2 or 1/3 or 1/4 pregnant either a woman is pregnant or she is not.
You are the one that is mixed up as to what a Jew is.
Halacha defines that & if that bothers you tough!!!!
Being Jewish is genetic.

The reason that we are successful, for example, is because Ashkenazim have a specific genetics, which predetermines us to have the highest IQ levels of any ethnic group in the world.

You can believe in superstitious rituals of conversion if you want (we could convert ten million Africans, and within a generation we would soon have one of the lowest IQs in the world, and we would lose all our tradition of learning, debate and science).

Conversion doesn't give you Jewish blood, genetics or ancestors. Conversion doesn't give you a Jewish intellect or IQ.

In the real world, the most important thing is your genetics.

Someone who is half Jewish, is a person with 50% Jewish blood. And a person who is a quarter Jewish, has 25% Jewish blood.

This can be verifed by genetic tests - a person who has the surname Cohen, passed to them from their father, will usually carry the Y-Chromosomal Aaron, regardless of who their mother was.   (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Aaron)  Such a person is infinitely more Jewish , than some random African like Capers Funnye, whose only connection is that they went through a ceremony with a rabbi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capers_Funnye).

Russian olim who are 50% Jewish or 25% Jewish, are people with 50% and 25% descent from Ancient Israel. Therefore they have a right to live in the land of Israel, in which their ancestors lived . 

On the other hand, converts to Judaism, have no ancestors who ever lived in Israel, and should have far less right to live in Israel. 

I think that it's ok to argue that we should give priority to people who are ethnically 100% Jewish, over people who are 50% Jewish, or 25% Jewish. But the latter still have significant Jewish blood and it's absurd to say they are not Jewish (anymore than you could call Obama a cracker because he is only half-black).  Half or a quarter of their ancestors are from ancient Israel.
 
« Last Edit: October 13, 2014, 04:31:46 PM by dimitry »

Online ChabadKahanist

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4290
Re: Do they want Jews make Alyhia?
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2014, 04:32:18 PM »
Primarily being Jewish is genetic.

The reason that we are successful, for example, is because Ashkenazim have a specific genetics, which predetermines us to have the highest IQ levels of any ethnic group in the world.

You can believe in superstitious rituals of conversion if you want (we could convert ten million Africans, and within a generation we would soon have one of the lowest IQs in the world, and we would lose all tradition of learning or science).

But conversion doesn't give you Jewish blood, genetics or ancestors. Conversion doesn't give you a Jewish intellect or personality.

In the real world, the most important thing is your genetics.

Someone who is half Jewish, is a person with 50% Jewish blood. And a person who is a quarter Jewish, has 25% Jewish blood.

This can be verifed by genetic tests - a person who has the surname Cohen, passed to them from their father, will usually carry the Y-Chromosomal Aaron, regardless of who their mother was.   (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Aaron)  Such a person is infinitely more Jewish , than Capers Funnye, whose only connection is that they went through a ceremony with a rabbi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capers_Funnye).

Russian olim who are 50% Jewish or 25% Jewish, are people with 50% and 25% descent from Ancient Israel. Therefore they have a right to live in the land of Israel, in which their ancestors lived . 

On the other hand, converts to Judaism, have no ancestors who ever lived in Israel, and should have far less right to live in Israel.
No Dmitry being Jewish is determined by halacha.
Capers Funnye is not a Jew & not recognized as such by any reliable  bet din.
If you feel this way you do not belong here as Rabbi Kahane our late mentor felt as I do what is a Jew.
A convert is as Jewish as any born Jew,however a person with a Jewish father & a Goya mother is not a Jew at all.
If you want to be a Jew get a brit mila & convert other wise you are not a Jew period!!!
A convert a real convert has more of a right to be here  than you if you are not Jewish according to halacha get through your head as all Kahanists feel as I do.

Offline dimitry

  • Junior JTFer
  • **
  • Posts: 97
Re: Do they want Jews make Alyhia?
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2014, 04:44:15 PM »

If you want to be a Jew get a brit mila & convert other wise you are not a Jew period!!!

Well first of all, I am halachic Jew, by my maternal grandmother, so your comment about converting makes no sense, if it is aimed at me.

No Dmitry being Jewish is determined by halacha.
Capers Funnye is not a Jew & not recognized as such by any reliable  bet din.
If you feel this way you do not belong here as Rabbi Kahane our late mentor felt as I do what is a Jew.
A convert is as Jewish as any born Jew,however a person with a Jewish father & a Goya mother is not a Jew at all.
If you want to be a Jew get a brit mila & convert other wise you are not a Jew period!!!
A convert a real convert has more of a right to be here  than you if you are not Jewish according to halacha get through your head as all Kahanists feel as I do.


But the real reason we are Jewish?

We are Jewish because we have Jewish blood. We have thousands of years of Jewish history, written in our DNA. This is infinitely more important than a piece of paper which says someone is 'converted'.  Our ancestors lived as Jews for thousands of years.

A convert is never as Jewish as a born Jew, since you cannot change thousands of years of your family history. Conversion doesn't give you DNA of the Ancient Levant or direct ancestry from the Ancient Israelites.

We have blood from Ancient Israel, and this is why we must have a right to live in Israel. End of story.

Now if we go back to the topic of Russian-speaking olim. A large proportion are 50% Jewish, or only 25% Jewish (or non-Jews married to people with only one Jewish grandparent). So it is fair to say that the connection of the group to Israel becomes increasingly diluted. But it is still a legitimate ancestral connection even if it is in many cases it an increasingly diluted connection of 50% or 25%.

This is why when we return to Israel, we say we are returning to our historical homeland and the land of our ancestors.

Whether Kahanists feel the same way as me? I am not aware of his ideas. I came here because I thought this was a right-wing forum for Jews.

Also I add I don't have anything against converts - only if they claim to be more Jewish than people with Jewish heritage.


 

Online ChabadKahanist

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4290
Re: Do they want Jews make Alyhia?
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2014, 04:56:33 PM »
Well first of all, I am halachic Jew, by my maternal grandmother, so your comment about converting makes no sense, if it is aimed at me.
 

But the real reason we are Jewish?

We are Jewish because we have Jewish blood. We have thousands of years of Jewish history, written in our DNA. This is infinitely more important than a piece of paper which says someone is 'converted'.  Our ancestors lived as Jews for thousands of years.

A convert is never as Jewish as a born Jew, since you cannot change thousands of years of your family history. Conversion doesn't give you DNA of the Ancient Levant or direct ancestry from the Ancient Israelites.

We have blood from Ancient Israel, and this is why we must have a right to live in Israel. End of story.

Now if we go back to the topic of Russian olim. A large proportion are 50% Jewish, or only 25% Jewish (or non-Jews married to Jews). So it is fair to say that the connection of the group to Israel becomes increasingly diluted. But it is still a legitimate ancestral connection even if it is in many cases it an increasingly diluted connection of 50% or 25%.

This is why when we return to Israel, we say we are returning to our historical homeland and the land of our ancestors.
On that account I owe you an apology & yes if your maternal grandmother is indeed Jewish that so are you,I was under the impression that your mother's side was not Jewish from the way your were talking.
Again there is no such a thing as 1/2 Jewish either you are or you are not & halacha determines that.
No if they are not halachic Jews the connection  is severed they may as well go to Europe & make room for those that need to be here meaning real Jews.
We are all for Russian Jews NOT Goy half breeds who think that they are Jews when in fact they are not.
My family came from Russia but they are all real Jews who never intermarried with Goyim.
Again a convert as just as Jewish as the biggest rabbi & more so than a half breed who has a shiksa mother.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2014, 05:10:07 PM by ChabadKahanist »

Offline dimitry

  • Junior JTFer
  • **
  • Posts: 97
Re: Do they want Jews make Alyhia?
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2014, 05:21:32 PM »
On that account I owe you an apology & yes if your maternal grandmother is indeed Jewish that so are you,I was under the impression that your mother's side was not Jewish from the way your were talking.
Again there is no such a thing as 1/2 Jewish either you are or you are not & halacha determines that.
No if they are not halachic Jews the connection  is severed they may as well go to Europe & make room for those that need to be here meaning real Jews.
We are all for Russian Jews NOT Goy half breeds who think that they are Jews when in fact they are not.
My family came from Russia but they are all real Jews who never intermarried with Goyim.
Again a convert as just as Jewish as the biggest rabbi & more so than a half breed who has a shiksa mother.
I don't agree at all with this viewpoint. It goes against rationality.

You are saying people who are genetically 50% or 25% descended from Ancient Israel, have no right to live in Israel, even though their ancestors walked on the land of Israel, and dreamed of returning for thousands of years. While a convert, whose ancestors have never been near Ancient Israel, and never dreamed of Israel -  has a right to Israel because they spent a few months studying Judaism?

This is for me, an anti-Zionist position. 

In Russian, 'aliyah' is described as 'repatriation'. You are repatriating to the land of your ancestors - if you have Jewish ancestors, then when you come to Israel, you are returning home.

(And someone who is 25% Jewish by blood, is still somewhat coming home when they come to Israel more than than a convert who has 0% Jewish blood.)

Again a convert as just as Jewish as the biggest rabbi & more so than a half breed who has a shiksa mother.
I will never accept that (for example African American) who converts to Judaism, is really Jew.  On the other hand, people who are half-Jewish or even quarter Jewish, and they authentically have Jewish blood - they are for me - real Jewish people or real partly Jewish people. And I see them as family (which they literally are, since their ancestors were cousins or even siblings  to my ancestors). 

Online ChabadKahanist

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4290
Re: Do they want Jews make Alyhia?
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2014, 01:49:43 AM »
I don't agree at all with this viewpoint. It goes against rationality.

You are saying people who are genetically 50% or 25% descended from Ancient Israel, have no right to live in Israel, even though their ancestors walked on the land of Israel, and dreamed of returning for thousands of years. While a convert, whose ancestors have never been near Ancient Israel, and never dreamed of Israel -  has a right to Israel because they spent a few months studying Judaism?

This is for me, an anti-Zionist position. 

In Russian, 'aliyah' is described as 'repatriation'. You are repatriating to the land of your ancestors - if you have Jewish ancestors, then when you come to Israel, you are returning home.

(And someone who is 25% Jewish by blood, is still somewhat coming home when they come to Israel more than than a convert who has 0% Jewish blood.) I will never accept that (for example African American) who converts to Judaism, is really Jew.  On the other hand, people who are half-Jewish or even quarter Jewish, and they authentically have Jewish blood - they are for me - real Jewish people or real partly Jewish people. And I see them as family (which they literally are, since their ancestors were cousins or even siblings  to my ancestors).
Yes I am saying that.
If you are not halachically Jewish you are NOT jewish case closed & you don't belong here.
And an African-American or anybody else who converts according to halacha is more Jewish than an uncircumcised  half breed with a Shiksa mother.
So basically you are denying what Authentic Judaism says.
So why are you here then?
Why is Chaim denied even entry to Israel & other real Jews denied aliyah or are denied entry into Israel just like Chaim while these uncircumcised half breeds with Shiksa  mothers are given citizenship carte blanch no questions asked?
When a real Jewish government gets in this will be corrected & the law of returned amended to read born of a Jewish mother or converted according to halacha.

Offline dimitry

  • Junior JTFer
  • **
  • Posts: 97
Re: Do they want Jews make Alyhia?
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2014, 12:22:19 PM »
Yes I am saying that.
If you are not halachically Jewish you are NOT jewish case closed & you don't belong here.
And an African-American or anybody else who converts according to halacha is more Jewish than an uncircumcised  half breed with a Shiksa mother.
So basically you are denying what Authentic Judaism says.
So why are you here then?
Why is Chaim denied even entry to Israel & other real Jews denied aliyah or are denied entry into Israel just like Chaim while these uncircumcised half breeds with Shiksa  mothers are given citizenship carte blanch no questions asked?
When a real Jewish government gets in this will be corrected & the law of returned amended to read born of a Jewish mother or converted according to halacha.


The idea that an African American who studies Judaism for a few months, becomes a 'real Jew'. While someone who is half-Jewish (perhaps even called Cohen), is not?

It is a fundamentally illogical idea, and it is in my opinion anti-Zionist position.

Also you muddle up different issues altogether. The reason Chaim is denied entry to Israel, is because of serving prison-time in US. It has nothing to do with the Law of Return.

I would propose to amend the Law of Return to exclude converts, who have no Jewish heritage (and who are not married to a person with at least one Jewish grandparent). But otherwise, I support it. Since the most important thing is to save the people with Jewish heritage, and keep their Jewish identity. They are part of my family, and their ancestors were relatives of mine (and presumably your). The reason we have legitimate claim to Israel is because it is the land of our ancestors.

Online ChabadKahanist

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4290
Re: Do they want Jews make Alyhia?
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2014, 12:34:47 PM »


The idea that an African American who studies Judaism for a few months, becomes a 'real Jew'. While someone who is half-Jewish (perhaps even called Cohen), is not.

It is a strange and illogical idea, and it is anti-Zionist position.

Also you muddle up different issues altogether. The reason Chaim is denied entry to Israel, is because of a criminal record in the US. It has nothing to do with the Law of Return.

I would propose to amend the Law of Return to exclude converts, who have no Jewish heritage. But otherwise, I support it.
First of all it doesn't take a few months it takes 1-2 years.
None of my Russian relatives married Goyim & are pure Jews
And what you are saying doesn't jive with any Jewish sources.
I am not muddling issues at all Chaim did his time & has been 30 years & in Judaism there is a concept called tshuva,but you wouldn't know an authentic Jewish concept if it hit you in the face.
If not for Chaim you would still be languishing in Russia & he sat in jail so Jews NOt uncircumcised half breeds with shiksa mothers could come to the Jewish homeland.
You are confused because you know of nothing Jewish.
Get it through your thick skull Non-Jewish mother=Goy.....Jewish mother or halachic conversion=Jew nothiing can change this.but obviously you reject anything Jewish judging by what you write.
This is Zionism....this is Judaism.
Judaism is based on halacha NOT on Hitler's definitiobn what is what you are quoting.
Again there is no such a thing as half a Jew just like there is no such a thing as being half pregnant either you are or you are not!!!!!!
He may be called Cohen but he is NO Kohayn & certainly NOT a Jew!!!!
Shyne or Rabbi Natan Gamzadi  who converted al pi halacha is more Jewish than a Russian uncircumcised half breed with a shiksa mother named Cohen!!!!!

Offline dimitry

  • Junior JTFer
  • **
  • Posts: 97
Re: Do they want Jews make Alyhia?
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2014, 06:02:49 PM »
First of all it doesn't take a few months it takes 1-2 years.
None of my Russian relatives married Goyim & are pure Jews
And what you are saying doesn't jive with any Jewish sources.
I am not muddling issues at all Chaim did his time & has been 30 years & in Judaism there is a concept called tshuva,but you wouldn't know an authentic Jewish concept if it hit you in the face.
If not for Chaim you would still be languishing in Russia & he sat in jail so Jews NOt uncircumcised half breeds with shiksa mothers could come to the Jewish homeland.
You are confused because you know of nothing Jewish.
Get it through your thick skull Non-Jewish mother=Goy.....Jewish mother or halachic conversion=Jew nothiing can change this.but obviously you reject anything Jewish judging by what you write.
This is Zionism....this is Judaism.
Judaism is based on halacha NOT on Hitler's definitiobn what is what you are quoting.
Again there is no such a thing as half a Jew just like there is no such a thing as being half pregnant either you are or you are not!!!!!!
He may be called Cohen but he is NO Kohayn & certainly NOT a Jew!!!!
Shyne or Rabbi Natan Gamzadi  who converted al pi halacha is more Jewish than a Russian uncircumcised half breed with a shiksa mother named Cohen!!!!!

You're mixing up different issues again.

Chaim is not allowed into Israel, because he has criminal record, according to US. Don't blame us for that.

Someone who converts to Judaism and has no Jewish heritage and no Jewish spouse, should not be allowed to immigrate to Israel. The point about Zionism, as it was intended by the founders of the movement, was for us to be returning to the homeland of our ancestors.  If they have a Jewish spouse, then obviously they should be allowed since their children would have Jewish heritage.  The whole reason we are going to Israel, is because it is our original homeland.  Our family originated in Israel, so we return. Heritage is whole basis for having legitimate claim to Israel.

Yes people can be 1/2 and 1/4 Jewish, in the same way as you can be 1/2 or 1/4 black - or 1/2 or 1/4 Irish.  Jews are an ethnic group, with distinct genetic profile.

Another issue that you are muddling up is circumcision. Circumcision has nothing to do with your status as a Jew under either ethnicity, Halacha,  or the Law of Return, so I don't understand why you introduce it to our topic.

As for Zionism. The main demographic who would agree with your viewpoint are the Haredim and maybe some Moroccans. It's not a viewpoint associated with most Zionists.

Also  in the course of our conversation, you have mixed up so many different points. At first you were claiming that Russian Jews arrived on false documents. And now your problem is that they are inter-married. 




 




Online ChabadKahanist

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4290
Re: Do they want Jews make Alyhia?
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2014, 11:45:09 PM »
You're mixing up different issues again.

Chaim is not allowed into Israel, because he has criminal record, according to US. Don't blame us for that.

Someone who converts to Judaism and has no Jewish heritage and no Jewish spouse, should not be allowed to immigrate to Israel. The point about Zionism, as it was intended by the founders of the movement, was for us to be returning to the homeland of our ancestors.  If they have a Jewish spouse, then obviously they should be allowed since their children would have Jewish heritage.  The whole reason we are going to Israel, is because it is our original homeland.  Our family originated in Israel, so we return. Heritage is whole basis for having legitimate claim to Israel.

Yes people can be 1/2 and 1/4 Jewish, in the same way as you can be 1/2 or 1/4 black - or 1/2 or 1/4 Irish.  Jews are an ethnic group, with distinct genetic profile.

Another issue that you are muddling up is circumcision. Circumcision has nothing to do with your status as a Jew under either ethnicity, Halacha,  or the Law of Return, so I don't understand why you introduce it to our topic.

As for Zionism. The main demographic who would agree with your viewpoint are the Haredim and maybe some Moroccans. It's not a viewpoint associated with most Zionists.

Also  in the course of our conversation, you have mixed up so many different points. At first you were claiming that Russian Jews arrived on false documents. And now your problem is that they are inter-married. 




 
I am not muddling the issue you are & Chaim was in jail because he fought for you guys at least for the real Russian Jews like my family not half breeds with shiksa mothers.
The ones I was talking about were not Jews but Goyim altogether.
Again you would'nt know a Jewish concept if hit you in the face.
The ones that arrived with false documents were Goyim.
Again get your facts straight there are no half Jews just like there are no half pregnant women.
Either you are Jewish or you are not.
Judaism is defined by halacha not Hitler,YM"s as the stuff you are quoting about genetic Jews & half Jews comes right from Hitler & has absolutely no Jewish sources.
Halacha has everything to with it.
A Jew is either somebody born of a Jewish mother or converted according halacha.
Either we want to live in a Jewish state or a Hebrew speaking Russia we can't have both,
If Judaism is not defined exclusively by halacha then we are living in a state of Jews & NOT a Jewish state & such a concept which is the Authentic Jewish Idea goes above your assimillated Hellenisitic head I realize & this is what Judaism says & if you don't like it,disagree with it or it bothers you.....TOUGH!!!!!!!
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 01:08:33 AM by ChabadKahanist »

Online ChabadKahanist

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4290
Re: Do they want Jews make Alyhia?
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2014, 04:43:34 AM »
Dmitry,
I don't believe that you are a Jew at all but an uncircumcised half breed with a shiksa mother.
Why else would you hate & disagree with everything that Judaism says that it takes to be Jewish?
You would not know an authentic Jewish concept if you tripped over & why should you?
I suspect that your are nothing but a Jew-hating troll!!!!!
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 05:48:51 AM by ChabadKahanist »

Online Chaim Ben Pesach

  • Administrator
  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5367
Re: Do they want Jews make Alyhia?
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2014, 03:18:35 PM »
בס''ד

We already know that Chaim nowadays hates Russian-speaking olim, despite having gone to prison for them in 1980s.

How dare you slander me. I love all Jews from every country as long as they are not Erev Rav traitors like you.

I sacrificed my entire life to save Soviet Jews and would gladly do it again.  I not only went to prison for five and a half years, I was also on probation, house arrest or awaiting trials for 12 additional years. So for seventeen and a half years, I was either in prison or under severe restrictions.

When that seventeen and a half year period ended in 1996, I tried to make aliyah and was expelled by force. I have been blocked from returning ever since - which is another 18 years (from 1996 to 2014). Therefore, for over 35 years I was either in prison or under severe restrictions or expelled from Israel - all because I fought to save our brothers and sisters in the Soviet Union.

Well first of all, I am halachic Jew, by my maternal grandmother, so your comment about converting makes no sense, if it is aimed at me.

That means you have many family members who are not Jewish but who try to pass themselves off as Jews. That is why is you are so vehemently against the Torah definition of who is a Jew.

Now if we go back to the topic of Russian-speaking olim. A large proportion are 50% Jewish, or only 25% Jewish (or non-Jews married to people with only one Jewish grandparent). So it is fair to say that the connection of the group to Israel becomes increasingly diluted. But it is still a legitimate ancestral connection even if it is in many cases it an increasingly diluted connection of 50% or 25%.

There are only two ways someone can be a Jew: if he has a Jewish mother or if he converts according to halacha.

Anyone who does not have a Jewish mother or who has not converted according to halacha is not Jewish and never can be under any circumstances. There is no such thing as 50% or 25% or even 75% Jews.

The reason that we are successful, for example, is because Ashkenazim have a specific genetics, which predetermines us to have the highest IQ levels of any ethnic group in the world.

You keep calling Torah Jews "racist" because we believe in authentic Judaism.

But you believe in genetic racial supremacy just like the Nazis. You even believe that Sephardi/Mizrachi Jews (who are 50% of Israeli Jewry) are genetically inferior. You are the racist.

You can believe in superstitious rituals of conversion if you want (we could convert ten million Africans, and within a generation we would soon have one of the lowest IQs in the world, and we would lose all our tradition of learning, debate and science).

Like a Bolshevik KGB anti-Semite, you ridicule Torah Judaism as "superstitious ritual". You know nothing about Torah Judaism. Your ignorance is only exceeded by your arrogance.

Another issue that you are muddling up is circumcision. Circumcision has nothing to do with your status as a Jew under either ethnicity, Halacha,  or the Law of Return, so I don't understand why you introduce it to our topic.

Any Jew who is uncircumcised is not part of the covenant between Israel and G-d and is cut off from the Jewish people both in this world and in the next.

For thousands of years, even the most assimilated Jews were circumcised. That was the one thing that almost all Jews did. Even Jewish Communist traitors circumcised their sons (until the Soviets outlawed the practice). Circumcision was universally recognized among Jews and Gentiles as the bare minimum requirement for someone to be part of the Jewish people.

But you would now make even circumcision unnecessary.

What exactly distinguishes you from a Russian Gentile? In your Erev Rav world, "Jews" would violate Shabbat and the holidays, eat non-kosher food, be uncircumcised, intermarry with Russian Jew-haters who massacred Jews for centuries, and regard Torah Judaism as "superstitious rituals". You think Jews who behave like that would survive? We know from history that most assimilated Jews do not last even one generation.

There are many olim in Israel who are 1/2 or 1/4 Jewish (or the non-Jewish spouses of them), or otherwise ethnic Jews who lack Jewish identity or interest in the religion, or who follow Christianity.

So even Russian Gentiles "who follow Christianity" should be considered Jewish in your Erev Rav world!

Chaim is not allowed into Israel, because he has criminal record, according to US. Don't blame us for that.

I am not allowed into Israel because Anatoly Sharansky refused to help me when I was expelled. In 1996, while I was being held by the Shabak in a prison cell awaiting expulsion, my friends in Israel went to Sharansky and asked him to intercede. Sharansky was a major government minister and his party had 8 Knesset seats - which was the balance of power, meaning he could have brought down the whole government. If Sharansky had called Netanyahu and demanded that I be allowed in, there is no doubt that I would would have been immediately accepted under the Law of Return more than 18 years ago. But the cowardly traitor Sharansky refused to do anything.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 05:15:54 PM by Chaim Ben Pesach »

Offline dimitry

  • Junior JTFer
  • **
  • Posts: 97
Re: Do they want Jews make Alyhia?
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2014, 07:57:53 PM »
Dmitry,
I don't believe that you are a Jew at all but an uncircumcised half breed with a shiksa mother.
Why else would you hate & disagree with everything that Judaism says that it takes to be Jewish?
You would not know an authentic Jewish concept if you tripped over & why should you?
I suspect that your are nothing but a Jew-hating troll!!!!!
Again, no. I am halachic Jew, from my maternal grandmother.

I disagree  with your concepts because they are illogical.  And the motivation is another form of discrimination against the community of Israel that has contributed most to Israel in recent years. 

I am not muddling the issue you are & Chaim was in jail because he fought for you guys at least for the real Russian Jews like my family not half breeds with shiksa mothers.
The ones I was talking about were not Jews but Goyim altogether.
Again you would'nt know a Jewish concept if hit you in the face.
The ones that arrived with false documents were Goyim.
Again get your facts straight there are no half Jews just like there are no half pregnant women.
Either you are Jewish or you are not.
Judaism is defined by halacha not Hitler,YM"s as the stuff you are quoting about genetic Jews & half Jews comes right from Hitler & has absolutely no Jewish sources.
Halacha has everything to with it.
A Jew is either somebody born of a Jewish mother or converted according halacha.
Either we want to live in a Jewish state or a Hebrew speaking Russia we can't have both,
If Judaism is not defined exclusively by halacha then we are living in a state of Jews & NOT a Jewish state & such a concept which is the Authentic Jewish Idea goes above your assimillated Hellenisitic head I realize & this is what Judaism says & if you don't like it,disagree with it or it bothers you.....TOUGH!!!!!!!
Concept of matrilineality only enters Judaism during the Roman occupation. There is not a word on it in the Torah, and patrilineality was the normal rule in Ancient Israel.  This is why today, the Karaites are still following the rule of patrilineality.

In reality, neither matrilineality or patrilineality should have a preference, since we inherit exactly 50% from our mother and our father. This is simple logic.  You don't have to be rocket scientist to solve this.

בס''ד

How dare you slander me. I love all Jews from every country as long as they are not Erev Rav traitors like you.

I sacrificed my entire life to save Soviet Jews and would gladly do it again.  I not only went to prison for five and a half years, I was also on probation, house arrest or awaiting trials for 12 additional years. So for seventeen and a half years, I was either in prison or under severe restrictions.

When that seventeen and a half year period ended in 1996, I tried to make aliyah and was expelled by force. I have been blocked from returning ever since - which is another 18 years (from 1996 to 2014). Therefore, for over 35 years I was either in prison or under severe restrictions or expelled from Israel - all because I fought to save our brothers and sisters in the Soviet Union.

I have no intent to slander you. I mention what I read in this forum, which is people attacking Russian-speaking olim for various reasons.

Anyone reading this would think that we weren't the most right-wing population in Israel, the population that lives disproportionately in West Bank, serves disproportionately in army, and makes up disproportion of the country's engineers, scientists.

On the other hand, we have vast dangers from leftist American Jews, entire Arab world. And yet all we have time for here is attacking the best Israeli demographic, and the one which has shifted Israel to more reasonable politics.


Quote
That means you have many family members who are not Jewish but who try to pass themselves off as Jews. That is why is you are so vehemently against the Torah definition of who is a Jew.

There are only two ways someone can be a Jew: if he has a Jewish mother or if he converts according to halacha.

Anyone who does not have a Jewish mother or who has not converted according to halacha is not Jewish and never can be under any circumstances. There is no such thing as 50% or 25% or even 75% Jews.


Someone who converts to Halacha, but has no Jewish ancestry, is not really Jewish, in the sense that they are not ethnically or ancestrally Jewish.

Someone 50% or 25% Jewish, is someone with 50% or 25% Jewish blood, which can theoretically be verified as authentic by genetic test.
Quote

You keep calling Torah Jews "racist" because we believe in authentic Judaism.

But you believe in genetic racial supremacy just like the Nazis. You even believe that Sephardi/Mizrachi Jews (who are 50% of Israeli Jewry) are genetically inferior. You are the racist.


I am not racist. I believe in genetic differences between people, as does now mainstream science.

On average, Ashkenazim are more intelligent ethnic group in the world, and it is the reason we are successful. It's not a secret, and we see it every day in real life.  I identity with Ashkenazi people. With Moroccans, less.

Quote
Like a Bolshevik KGB anti-Semite, you ridicule Torah Judaism as "superstitious ritual". You know nothing about Torah Judaism. Your ignorance is only exceeded by your arrogance.


No I am not like a Bolshevik anti-semite. For a starter, I am Jewish and I oppose the discrimination against the Russian-speaking Jewish people, which I saw in a sad way repeated on this forum (as commonly the same discrimination continues in Israel by leftists such as Gideon Levy, and all kinds of Haredim and Morrocans). 

Quote

Any Jew who is uncircumcised is not part of the covenant between Israel and G-d and is cut off from the Jewish people both in this world and in the next.

For thousands of years, even the most assimilated Jews were circumcised. That was the one thing that almost all Jews did. Even Jewish Communist traitors circumcised their sons (until the Soviets outlawed the practice). Circumcision was universally recognized among Jews and Gentiles as the bare minimum requirement for someone to be part of the Jewish people.

But you would now make even circumcision unnecessary.
Circumcision has no role in determining who is Jewish, according to any interpretation of halakhah, genetics and ethnic determination, or Law of Return.

So it was irrelevant to our discussion.

As for Zionism or assimilation question. Herzl's didn't circumcise his son, and it was opposed by German Reform Jews.

I don't have any emotion towards this subject either way. I see it as irrelevant to the discussion.

Also note that probably the majority of Russian-speaking olim are being circumcised or having their children circumcised (unlike Herzl, most celebrated Zionist himself).


 




Quote
What exactly distinguishes you from a Russian Gentile? In your Erev Rav world, "Jews" would violate Shabbat and the holidays, eat non-kosher food, be uncircumcised, intermarry with Russian Jew-haters who massacred Jews for centuries, and regard Torah Judaism as "superstitious rituals". You think Jews who behave like that would survive? We know from history that most assimilated Jews do not last even one generation.

Today, Russian-Jews have much better instinct for survival than American-Jews, and it is reflected in the politics and even birth-rates.

The Soviet sphere tried to destroy the Jews. But failed, and the community is having a renaissance.


Quote

So even Russian Gentiles "who follow Christianity" should be considered Jewish in your Erev Rav world!
  No they should be considered as Christians (ideologically), with Jewish blood (to whatever component they have).

A Christian who has 25% Jewish blood - I regard as a 25% cousin of mine (as we are by blood - all Ashkenazi are at the relation of cousins), who is following a different religion.

Quote
I am not allowed into Israel because Anatoly Sharansky refused to help me when I was expelled. In 1996, while I was being held by the Shabak in a prison cell awaiting expulsion, my friends in Israel went to Sharansky and asked him to intercede. Sharansky was a major government minister and his party had 8 Knesset seats - which was the balance of power, meaning he could have brought down the whole government. If Sharansky had called Netanyahu and demanded that I be allowed in, there is no doubt that I would would have been immediately accepted under the Law of Return more than 18 years ago. But the cowardly traitor Sharansky refused to do anything.
Of Sharansky, I am not a great fan. But the decision is not of Sharansky.

By the way, I would be interested what you think of people like Avigdor Eskin.

Avigdor Eskin is 50% Jewish (from his father - his mother is a Ukrainian non-Jewish). But somehow he is the leading Kahanist in the Russian-speaking world.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 08:12:42 PM by dimitry »

Online ChabadKahanist

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4290
Re: Do they want Jews make Alyhia?
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2014, 02:42:49 AM »
Again, no. I am halachic Jew, from my maternal grandmother.

I disagree  with your concepts because they are illogical.  And the motivation is another form of discrimination against the community of Israel that has contributed most to Israel in recent years. 
Concept of matrilineality only enters Judaism during the Roman occupation. There is not a word on it in the Torah, and patrilineality was the normal rule in Ancient Israel.  This is why today, the Karaites are still following the rule of patrilineality.

In reality, neither matrilineality or patrilineality should have a preference, since we inherit exactly 50% from our mother and our father. This is simple logic.  You don't have to be rocket scientist to solve this.
 
I have no intent to slander you. I mention what I read in this forum, which is people attacking Russian-speaking olim for various reasons.

Anyone reading this would think that we weren't the most right-wing population in Israel, the population that lives disproportionately in West Bank, serves disproportionately in army, and makes up disproportion of the country's engineers, scientists.

On the other hand, we have vast dangers from leftist American Jews, entire Arab world. And yet all we have time for here is attacking the best Israeli demographic, and the one which has shifted Israel to more reasonable politics.

 

Someone who converts to Halacha, but has no Jewish ancestry, is not really Jewish, in the sense that they are not ethnically or ancestrally Jewish.

Someone 50% or 25% Jewish, is someone with 50% or 25% Jewish blood, which can theoretically be verified as authentic by genetic test. 

I am not racist. I believe in genetic differences between people, as does now mainstream science.

On average, Ashkenazim are more intelligent ethnic group in the world, and it is the reason we are successful. It's not a secret, and we see it every day in real life.  I identity with Ashkenazi people. With Moroccans, less.
 

No I am not like a Bolshevik anti-semite. For a starter, I am Jewish and I oppose the discrimination against the Russian-speaking Jewish people, which I saw in a sad way repeated on this forum (as commonly the same discrimination continues in Israel by leftists such as Gideon Levy, and all kinds of Haredim and Morrocans). 
 Circumcision has no role in determining who is Jewish, according to any interpretation of halakhah, genetics and ethnic determination, or Law of Return.

So it was irrelevant to our discussion.

As for Zionism or assimilation question. Herzl's didn't circumcise his son, and it was opposed by German Reform Jews.

I don't have any emotion towards this subject either way. I see it as irrelevant to the discussion.

Also note that probably the majority of Russian-speaking olim are being circumcised or having their children circumcised (unlike Herzl, most celebrated Zionist himself).


 



 
Today, Russian-Jews have much better instinct for survival than American-Jews, and it is reflected in the politics and even birth-rates.

The Soviet sphere tried to destroy the Jews. But failed, and the community is having a renaissance.

  No they should be considered as Christians (ideologically), with Jewish blood (to whatever component they have).

A Christian who has 25% Jewish blood - I regard as a 25% cousin of mine (as we are by blood - all Ashkenazi are at the relation of cousins), who is following a different religion.
 Of Sharansky, I am not a great fan. But the decision is not of Sharansky.

By the way, I would be interested what you think of people like Avigdor Eskin.

Avigdor Eskin is 50% Jewish (from his father - his mother is a Ukrainian non-Jewish). But somehow he is the leading Kahanist in the Russian-speaking world.
You are totally wrong about everything & again I tell you that you would not know an authentic Jewish concept if it hit you in the face.
Furthermore you are lying about Avigdor Eskin both his parents are Jews & I am certain that he is more Jewish than you are.
You make wild statements without any sources or proof.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 04:15:36 AM by ChabadKahanist »

Offline dimitry

  • Junior JTFer
  • **
  • Posts: 97
Re: Do they want Jews make Alyhia?
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2014, 10:21:32 PM »
You are totally wrong about everything & again I tell you that you would not know an authentic Jewish concept if it hit you in the face.
You know that you are wrong, otherwise you would be able to argue for your points, instead of resorting to ad hominem attacks.
Quote
Furthermore you are lying about Avigdor Eskin both his parents are Jews
His mother is not Jewish. Her family was even persecuted under Stalin for Ukrainian nationalism.

 It's possible that he has had a conversion after he came to Israel. But he certainly was not born as 'halachically Jewish', although his father was Jewish.

Quote
& I am certain that he is more Jewish than you are.
You make wild statements without any sources or proof.
No, once again - I am Jewish from my maternal grandmother. I am Jewish from any point of view: Halacha, Law of Return, and in terms of having some real Jewish ancestry  that would trace genetically to Israel.

Eskin father is Jewish, but his maternal grandmother was not Jewish, so according halacha he was not  born Jewish. Since those days, he perhaps had a conversion, although he hasn't talked about it.  I don't care either way, and view him as 50% Jewish and also Jewish nationalist.

Offline Sveta

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1086
Re: Do they want Jews make Aliyah?
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2014, 11:43:01 PM »
Sad how some people forget how 100% Jewish righteous gerim are.

Who would dare stand in front of Ruth, the great grandmother of King David (and ancestress of the future Moshiach) and tell her the things I read in this thread about people who honestly turn to Hashem and join Israel.

You talk about genetics? What about genetics? I see all kinds of Jews, gerim, born Jews. Persian, Ashkenazi, Sephardic, Mizrachi. Some observant some not. I have seem gerim go through an entire process of converting only to go back to their old ways and I see others who do an entire conversion process and are most observant people ever. Serious people who love Hashem and Torah all while you get Jews like Adam Sandler who publicly talks about how he loves bacon. You talk to us about the importance of "genetics"?
Adam Sandler is "genetically Jewish" isn't he? Is he better than Ruth just because he was born Jewish? Is he better than someone who does an entire year or two of a conversion process just because he just happened to have a Jewish mother? What about all the "genetically Jewish" celebrities who intermarry and desecrate Shabbos. Yes, I see genetics are really important.

Do you know who Onkelos was? He was a GENIUS and a convert! What about Rabbi Akiva? He descended from converts and is one of the greatest scholars in Judaism.

Obviously doing a conversion does not turn someone's DNA Semitic BUT it does mean someone is 100% Jewish with a Jewish Neshama. The body is just a vessel for the soul. In Shamayim the neshama of every Jew is the same, whether their body converted or had a Jewish mother. Giyur has existed for a long time, it is by no means some magic fake ritual but an actual real process.

Offline Binyamin Yisrael

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4954
Re: Do they want Jews make Aliyah?
« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2014, 12:44:16 AM »
Adam Sandler is a self-hating Jew. The only thing I know about him is his stupid so-called "Hanukkah" song where he sings about 2 "half Jews" being a fine looking Jew. I remember my sister bought his CD when we were kids and then when my dad heard the other songs where he was just saying curse words, he broke the CD but he gave my sister back the money that it cost.

Of course if Sandler and all the Deform Jews knew what Hanukkah was about, they would hate the holiday. The next major Jewish holiday is Hanukkah. It's time to teach people the Dvar Torah of Rabbi Kahane "Down With Hanukkah". His Yahrzeit is coming up on 18 Cheshvan (November 11). November 11 this year marks 10 years to the passing of the Arab fag, Arafat, YM"S!