Israel > Save Israel
Do they want Jews make Aliyah?
ChabadKahanist:
--- Quote from: dimitry on October 14, 2014, 12:22:19 PM ---
The idea that an African American who studies Judaism for a few months, becomes a 'real Jew'. While someone who is half-Jewish (perhaps even called Cohen), is not.
It is a strange and illogical idea, and it is anti-Zionist position.
Also you muddle up different issues altogether. The reason Chaim is denied entry to Israel, is because of a criminal record in the US. It has nothing to do with the Law of Return.
I would propose to amend the Law of Return to exclude converts, who have no Jewish heritage. But otherwise, I support it.
--- End quote ---
First of all it doesn't take a few months it takes 1-2 years.
None of my Russian relatives married Goyim & are pure Jews
And what you are saying doesn't jive with any Jewish sources.
I am not muddling issues at all Chaim did his time & has been 30 years & in Judaism there is a concept called tshuva,but you wouldn't know an authentic Jewish concept if it hit you in the face.
If not for Chaim you would still be languishing in Russia & he sat in jail so Jews NOt uncircumcised half breeds with shiksa mothers could come to the Jewish homeland.
You are confused because you know of nothing Jewish.
Get it through your thick skull Non-Jewish mother=Goy.....Jewish mother or halachic conversion=Jew nothiing can change this.but obviously you reject anything Jewish judging by what you write.
This is Zionism....this is Judaism.
Judaism is based on halacha NOT on Hitler's definitiobn what is what you are quoting.
Again there is no such a thing as half a Jew just like there is no such a thing as being half pregnant either you are or you are not!!!!!!
He may be called Cohen but he is NO Kohayn & certainly NOT a Jew!!!!
Shyne or Rabbi Natan Gamzadi who converted al pi halacha is more Jewish than a Russian uncircumcised half breed with a shiksa mother named Cohen!!!!!
dimitry:
--- Quote from: ChabadKahanist on October 14, 2014, 12:34:47 PM ---First of all it doesn't take a few months it takes 1-2 years.
None of my Russian relatives married Goyim & are pure Jews
And what you are saying doesn't jive with any Jewish sources.
I am not muddling issues at all Chaim did his time & has been 30 years & in Judaism there is a concept called tshuva,but you wouldn't know an authentic Jewish concept if it hit you in the face.
If not for Chaim you would still be languishing in Russia & he sat in jail so Jews NOt uncircumcised half breeds with shiksa mothers could come to the Jewish homeland.
You are confused because you know of nothing Jewish.
Get it through your thick skull Non-Jewish mother=Goy.....Jewish mother or halachic conversion=Jew nothiing can change this.but obviously you reject anything Jewish judging by what you write.
This is Zionism....this is Judaism.
Judaism is based on halacha NOT on Hitler's definitiobn what is what you are quoting.
Again there is no such a thing as half a Jew just like there is no such a thing as being half pregnant either you are or you are not!!!!!!
He may be called Cohen but he is NO Kohayn & certainly NOT a Jew!!!!
Shyne or Rabbi Natan Gamzadi who converted al pi halacha is more Jewish than a Russian uncircumcised half breed with a shiksa mother named Cohen!!!!!
--- End quote ---
You're mixing up different issues again.
Chaim is not allowed into Israel, because he has criminal record, according to US. Don't blame us for that.
Someone who converts to Judaism and has no Jewish heritage and no Jewish spouse, should not be allowed to immigrate to Israel. The point about Zionism, as it was intended by the founders of the movement, was for us to be returning to the homeland of our ancestors. If they have a Jewish spouse, then obviously they should be allowed since their children would have Jewish heritage. The whole reason we are going to Israel, is because it is our original homeland. Our family originated in Israel, so we return. Heritage is whole basis for having legitimate claim to Israel.
Yes people can be 1/2 and 1/4 Jewish, in the same way as you can be 1/2 or 1/4 black - or 1/2 or 1/4 Irish. Jews are an ethnic group, with distinct genetic profile.
Another issue that you are muddling up is circumcision. Circumcision has nothing to do with your status as a Jew under either ethnicity, Halacha, or the Law of Return, so I don't understand why you introduce it to our topic.
As for Zionism. The main demographic who would agree with your viewpoint are the Haredim and maybe some Moroccans. It's not a viewpoint associated with most Zionists.
Also in the course of our conversation, you have mixed up so many different points. At first you were claiming that Russian Jews arrived on false documents. And now your problem is that they are inter-married.
ChabadKahanist:
--- Quote from: dimitry on October 14, 2014, 06:02:49 PM ---You're mixing up different issues again.
Chaim is not allowed into Israel, because he has criminal record, according to US. Don't blame us for that.
Someone who converts to Judaism and has no Jewish heritage and no Jewish spouse, should not be allowed to immigrate to Israel. The point about Zionism, as it was intended by the founders of the movement, was for us to be returning to the homeland of our ancestors. If they have a Jewish spouse, then obviously they should be allowed since their children would have Jewish heritage. The whole reason we are going to Israel, is because it is our original homeland. Our family originated in Israel, so we return. Heritage is whole basis for having legitimate claim to Israel.
Yes people can be 1/2 and 1/4 Jewish, in the same way as you can be 1/2 or 1/4 black - or 1/2 or 1/4 Irish. Jews are an ethnic group, with distinct genetic profile.
Another issue that you are muddling up is circumcision. Circumcision has nothing to do with your status as a Jew under either ethnicity, Halacha, or the Law of Return, so I don't understand why you introduce it to our topic.
As for Zionism. The main demographic who would agree with your viewpoint are the Haredim and maybe some Moroccans. It's not a viewpoint associated with most Zionists.
Also in the course of our conversation, you have mixed up so many different points. At first you were claiming that Russian Jews arrived on false documents. And now your problem is that they are inter-married.
--- End quote ---
I am not muddling the issue you are & Chaim was in jail because he fought for you guys at least for the real Russian Jews like my family not half breeds with shiksa mothers.
The ones I was talking about were not Jews but Goyim altogether.
Again you would'nt know a Jewish concept if hit you in the face.
The ones that arrived with false documents were Goyim.
Again get your facts straight there are no half Jews just like there are no half pregnant women.
Either you are Jewish or you are not.
Judaism is defined by halacha not Hitler,YM"s as the stuff you are quoting about genetic Jews & half Jews comes right from Hitler & has absolutely no Jewish sources.
Halacha has everything to with it.
A Jew is either somebody born of a Jewish mother or converted according halacha.
Either we want to live in a Jewish state or a Hebrew speaking Russia we can't have both,
If Judaism is not defined exclusively by halacha then we are living in a state of Jews & NOT a Jewish state & such a concept which is the Authentic Jewish Idea goes above your assimillated Hellenisitic head I realize & this is what Judaism says & if you don't like it,disagree with it or it bothers you.....TOUGH!!!!!!!
ChabadKahanist:
Dmitry,
I don't believe that you are a Jew at all but an uncircumcised half breed with a shiksa mother.
Why else would you hate & disagree with everything that Judaism says that it takes to be Jewish?
You would not know an authentic Jewish concept if you tripped over & why should you?
I suspect that your are nothing but a Jew-hating troll!!!!!
Chaim Ben Pesach:
בס''ד
--- Quote from: dimitry on October 12, 2014, 07:56:27 PM ---We already know that Chaim nowadays hates Russian-speaking olim, despite having gone to prison for them in 1980s.
--- End quote ---
How dare you slander me. I love all Jews from every country as long as they are not Erev Rav traitors like you.
I sacrificed my entire life to save Soviet Jews and would gladly do it again. I not only went to prison for five and a half years, I was also on probation, house arrest or awaiting trials for 12 additional years. So for seventeen and a half years, I was either in prison or under severe restrictions.
When that seventeen and a half year period ended in 1996, I tried to make aliyah and was expelled by force. I have been blocked from returning ever since - which is another 18 years (from 1996 to 2014). Therefore, for over 35 years I was either in prison or under severe restrictions or expelled from Israel - all because I fought to save our brothers and sisters in the Soviet Union.
--- Quote from: dimitry on October 13, 2014, 04:44:15 PM ---Well first of all, I am halachic Jew, by my maternal grandmother, so your comment about converting makes no sense, if it is aimed at me.
--- End quote ---
That means you have many family members who are not Jewish but who try to pass themselves off as Jews. That is why is you are so vehemently against the Torah definition of who is a Jew.
--- Quote from: dimitry on October 13, 2014, 04:44:15 PM ---Now if we go back to the topic of Russian-speaking olim. A large proportion are 50% Jewish, or only 25% Jewish (or non-Jews married to people with only one Jewish grandparent). So it is fair to say that the connection of the group to Israel becomes increasingly diluted. But it is still a legitimate ancestral connection even if it is in many cases it an increasingly diluted connection of 50% or 25%.
--- End quote ---
There are only two ways someone can be a Jew: if he has a Jewish mother or if he converts according to halacha.
Anyone who does not have a Jewish mother or who has not converted according to halacha is not Jewish and never can be under any circumstances. There is no such thing as 50% or 25% or even 75% Jews.
--- Quote from: dimitry on October 13, 2014, 04:20:47 PM ---The reason that we are successful, for example, is because Ashkenazim have a specific genetics, which predetermines us to have the highest IQ levels of any ethnic group in the world.
--- End quote ---
You keep calling Torah Jews "racist" because we believe in authentic Judaism.
But you believe in genetic racial supremacy just like the Nazis. You even believe that Sephardi/Mizrachi Jews (who are 50% of Israeli Jewry) are genetically inferior. You are the racist.
--- Quote from: dimitry on October 13, 2014, 04:20:47 PM ---You can believe in superstitious rituals of conversion if you want (we could convert ten million Africans, and within a generation we would soon have one of the lowest IQs in the world, and we would lose all our tradition of learning, debate and science).
--- End quote ---
Like a Bolshevik KGB anti-Semite, you ridicule Torah Judaism as "superstitious ritual". You know nothing about Torah Judaism. Your ignorance is only exceeded by your arrogance.
--- Quote from: dimitry on October 14, 2014, 06:02:49 PM ---Another issue that you are muddling up is circumcision. Circumcision has nothing to do with your status as a Jew under either ethnicity, Halacha, or the Law of Return, so I don't understand why you introduce it to our topic.
--- End quote ---
Any Jew who is uncircumcised is not part of the covenant between Israel and G-d and is cut off from the Jewish people both in this world and in the next.
For thousands of years, even the most assimilated Jews were circumcised. That was the one thing that almost all Jews did. Even Jewish Communist traitors circumcised their sons (until the Soviets outlawed the practice). Circumcision was universally recognized among Jews and Gentiles as the bare minimum requirement for someone to be part of the Jewish people.
But you would now make even circumcision unnecessary.
What exactly distinguishes you from a Russian Gentile? In your Erev Rav world, "Jews" would violate Shabbat and the holidays, eat non-kosher food, be uncircumcised, intermarry with Russian Jew-haters who massacred Jews for centuries, and regard Torah Judaism as "superstitious rituals". You think Jews who behave like that would survive? We know from history that most assimilated Jews do not last even one generation.
--- Quote from: dimitry on October 12, 2014, 07:56:27 PM ---There are many olim in Israel who are 1/2 or 1/4 Jewish (or the non-Jewish spouses of them), or otherwise ethnic Jews who lack Jewish identity or interest in the religion, or who follow Christianity.
--- End quote ---
So even Russian Gentiles "who follow Christianity" should be considered Jewish in your Erev Rav world!
--- Quote from: dimitry on October 14, 2014, 06:02:49 PM ---Chaim is not allowed into Israel, because he has criminal record, according to US. Don't blame us for that.
--- End quote ---
I am not allowed into Israel because Anatoly Sharansky refused to help me when I was expelled. In 1996, while I was being held by the Shabak in a prison cell awaiting expulsion, my friends in Israel went to Sharansky and asked him to intercede. Sharansky was a major government minister and his party had 8 Knesset seats - which was the balance of power, meaning he could have brought down the whole government. If Sharansky had called Netanyahu and demanded that I be allowed in, there is no doubt that I would would have been immediately accepted under the Law of Return more than 18 years ago. But the cowardly traitor Sharansky refused to do anything.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version