Israel > Save Israel
Do they want Jews make Aliyah?
dimitry:
--- Quote from: ChabadKahanist on October 15, 2014, 04:43:34 AM ---Dmitry,
I don't believe that you are a Jew at all but an uncircumcised half breed with a shiksa mother.
Why else would you hate & disagree with everything that Judaism says that it takes to be Jewish?
You would not know an authentic Jewish concept if you tripped over & why should you?
I suspect that your are nothing but a Jew-hating troll!!!!!
--- End quote ---
Again, no. I am halachic Jew, from my maternal grandmother.
I disagree with your concepts because they are illogical. And the motivation is another form of discrimination against the community of Israel that has contributed most to Israel in recent years.
--- Quote from: ChabadKahanist on October 14, 2014, 11:45:09 PM ---I am not muddling the issue you are & Chaim was in jail because he fought for you guys at least for the real Russian Jews like my family not half breeds with shiksa mothers.
The ones I was talking about were not Jews but Goyim altogether.
Again you would'nt know a Jewish concept if hit you in the face.
The ones that arrived with false documents were Goyim.
Again get your facts straight there are no half Jews just like there are no half pregnant women.
Either you are Jewish or you are not.
Judaism is defined by halacha not Hitler,YM"s as the stuff you are quoting about genetic Jews & half Jews comes right from Hitler & has absolutely no Jewish sources.
Halacha has everything to with it.
A Jew is either somebody born of a Jewish mother or converted according halacha.
Either we want to live in a Jewish state or a Hebrew speaking Russia we can't have both,
If Judaism is not defined exclusively by halacha then we are living in a state of Jews & NOT a Jewish state & such a concept which is the Authentic Jewish Idea goes above your assimillated Hellenisitic head I realize & this is what Judaism says & if you don't like it,disagree with it or it bothers you.....TOUGH!!!!!!!
--- End quote ---
Concept of matrilineality only enters Judaism during the Roman occupation. There is not a word on it in the Torah, and patrilineality was the normal rule in Ancient Israel. This is why today, the Karaites are still following the rule of patrilineality.
In reality, neither matrilineality or patrilineality should have a preference, since we inherit exactly 50% from our mother and our father. This is simple logic. You don't have to be rocket scientist to solve this.
--- Quote from: Chaim Ben Pesach on October 15, 2014, 03:18:35 PM ---בס''ד
How dare you slander me. I love all Jews from every country as long as they are not Erev Rav traitors like you.
I sacrificed my entire life to save Soviet Jews and would gladly do it again. I not only went to prison for five and a half years, I was also on probation, house arrest or awaiting trials for 12 additional years. So for seventeen and a half years, I was either in prison or under severe restrictions.
When that seventeen and a half year period ended in 1996, I tried to make aliyah and was expelled by force. I have been blocked from returning ever since - which is another 18 years (from 1996 to 2014). Therefore, for over 35 years I was either in prison or under severe restrictions or expelled from Israel - all because I fought to save our brothers and sisters in the Soviet Union.
--- End quote ---
I have no intent to slander you. I mention what I read in this forum, which is people attacking Russian-speaking olim for various reasons.
Anyone reading this would think that we weren't the most right-wing population in Israel, the population that lives disproportionately in West Bank, serves disproportionately in army, and makes up disproportion of the country's engineers, scientists.
On the other hand, we have vast dangers from leftist American Jews, entire Arab world. And yet all we have time for here is attacking the best Israeli demographic, and the one which has shifted Israel to more reasonable politics.
--- Quote ---That means you have many family members who are not Jewish but who try to pass themselves off as Jews. That is why is you are so vehemently against the Torah definition of who is a Jew.
There are only two ways someone can be a Jew: if he has a Jewish mother or if he converts according to halacha.
Anyone who does not have a Jewish mother or who has not converted according to halacha is not Jewish and never can be under any circumstances. There is no such thing as 50% or 25% or even 75% Jews.
--- End quote ---
Someone who converts to Halacha, but has no Jewish ancestry, is not really Jewish, in the sense that they are not ethnically or ancestrally Jewish.
Someone 50% or 25% Jewish, is someone with 50% or 25% Jewish blood, which can theoretically be verified as authentic by genetic test.
--- Quote ---
You keep calling Torah Jews "racist" because we believe in authentic Judaism.
But you believe in genetic racial supremacy just like the Nazis. You even believe that Sephardi/Mizrachi Jews (who are 50% of Israeli Jewry) are genetically inferior. You are the racist.
--- End quote ---
I am not racist. I believe in genetic differences between people, as does now mainstream science.
On average, Ashkenazim are more intelligent ethnic group in the world, and it is the reason we are successful. It's not a secret, and we see it every day in real life. I identity with Ashkenazi people. With Moroccans, less.
--- Quote ---Like a Bolshevik KGB anti-Semite, you ridicule Torah Judaism as "superstitious ritual". You know nothing about Torah Judaism. Your ignorance is only exceeded by your arrogance.
--- End quote ---
No I am not like a Bolshevik anti-semite. For a starter, I am Jewish and I oppose the discrimination against the Russian-speaking Jewish people, which I saw in a sad way repeated on this forum (as commonly the same discrimination continues in Israel by leftists such as Gideon Levy, and all kinds of Haredim and Morrocans).
--- Quote ---
Any Jew who is uncircumcised is not part of the covenant between Israel and G-d and is cut off from the Jewish people both in this world and in the next.
For thousands of years, even the most assimilated Jews were circumcised. That was the one thing that almost all Jews did. Even Jewish Communist traitors circumcised their sons (until the Soviets outlawed the practice). Circumcision was universally recognized among Jews and Gentiles as the bare minimum requirement for someone to be part of the Jewish people.
But you would now make even circumcision unnecessary.
--- End quote ---
Circumcision has no role in determining who is Jewish, according to any interpretation of halakhah, genetics and ethnic determination, or Law of Return.
So it was irrelevant to our discussion.
As for Zionism or assimilation question. Herzl's didn't circumcise his son, and it was opposed by German Reform Jews.
I don't have any emotion towards this subject either way. I see it as irrelevant to the discussion.
Also note that probably the majority of Russian-speaking olim are being circumcised or having their children circumcised (unlike Herzl, most celebrated Zionist himself).
--- Quote ---What exactly distinguishes you from a Russian Gentile? In your Erev Rav world, "Jews" would violate Shabbat and the holidays, eat non-kosher food, be uncircumcised, intermarry with Russian Jew-haters who massacred Jews for centuries, and regard Torah Judaism as "superstitious rituals". You think Jews who behave like that would survive? We know from history that most assimilated Jews do not last even one generation.
--- End quote ---
Today, Russian-Jews have much better instinct for survival than American-Jews, and it is reflected in the politics and even birth-rates.
The Soviet sphere tried to destroy the Jews. But failed, and the community is having a renaissance.
--- Quote ---
So even Russian Gentiles "who follow Christianity" should be considered Jewish in your Erev Rav world!
--- End quote ---
No they should be considered as Christians (ideologically), with Jewish blood (to whatever component they have).
A Christian who has 25% Jewish blood - I regard as a 25% cousin of mine (as we are by blood - all Ashkenazi are at the relation of cousins), who is following a different religion.
--- Quote ---I am not allowed into Israel because Anatoly Sharansky refused to help me when I was expelled. In 1996, while I was being held by the Shabak in a prison cell awaiting expulsion, my friends in Israel went to Sharansky and asked him to intercede. Sharansky was a major government minister and his party had 8 Knesset seats - which was the balance of power, meaning he could have brought down the whole government. If Sharansky had called Netanyahu and demanded that I be allowed in, there is no doubt that I would would have been immediately accepted under the Law of Return more than 18 years ago. But the cowardly traitor Sharansky refused to do anything.
--- End quote ---
Of Sharansky, I am not a great fan. But the decision is not of Sharansky.
By the way, I would be interested what you think of people like Avigdor Eskin.
Avigdor Eskin is 50% Jewish (from his father - his mother is a Ukrainian non-Jewish). But somehow he is the leading Kahanist in the Russian-speaking world.
ChabadKahanist:
--- Quote from: dimitry on October 15, 2014, 07:57:53 PM ---Again, no. I am halachic Jew, from my maternal grandmother.
I disagree with your concepts because they are illogical. And the motivation is another form of discrimination against the community of Israel that has contributed most to Israel in recent years.
Concept of matrilineality only enters Judaism during the Roman occupation. There is not a word on it in the Torah, and patrilineality was the normal rule in Ancient Israel. This is why today, the Karaites are still following the rule of patrilineality.
In reality, neither matrilineality or patrilineality should have a preference, since we inherit exactly 50% from our mother and our father. This is simple logic. You don't have to be rocket scientist to solve this.
I have no intent to slander you. I mention what I read in this forum, which is people attacking Russian-speaking olim for various reasons.
Anyone reading this would think that we weren't the most right-wing population in Israel, the population that lives disproportionately in West Bank, serves disproportionately in army, and makes up disproportion of the country's engineers, scientists.
On the other hand, we have vast dangers from leftist American Jews, entire Arab world. And yet all we have time for here is attacking the best Israeli demographic, and the one which has shifted Israel to more reasonable politics.
Someone who converts to Halacha, but has no Jewish ancestry, is not really Jewish, in the sense that they are not ethnically or ancestrally Jewish.
Someone 50% or 25% Jewish, is someone with 50% or 25% Jewish blood, which can theoretically be verified as authentic by genetic test.
I am not racist. I believe in genetic differences between people, as does now mainstream science.
On average, Ashkenazim are more intelligent ethnic group in the world, and it is the reason we are successful. It's not a secret, and we see it every day in real life. I identity with Ashkenazi people. With Moroccans, less.
No I am not like a Bolshevik anti-semite. For a starter, I am Jewish and I oppose the discrimination against the Russian-speaking Jewish people, which I saw in a sad way repeated on this forum (as commonly the same discrimination continues in Israel by leftists such as Gideon Levy, and all kinds of Haredim and Morrocans).
Circumcision has no role in determining who is Jewish, according to any interpretation of halakhah, genetics and ethnic determination, or Law of Return.
So it was irrelevant to our discussion.
As for Zionism or assimilation question. Herzl's didn't circumcise his son, and it was opposed by German Reform Jews.
I don't have any emotion towards this subject either way. I see it as irrelevant to the discussion.
Also note that probably the majority of Russian-speaking olim are being circumcised or having their children circumcised (unlike Herzl, most celebrated Zionist himself).
Today, Russian-Jews have much better instinct for survival than American-Jews, and it is reflected in the politics and even birth-rates.
The Soviet sphere tried to destroy the Jews. But failed, and the community is having a renaissance.
No they should be considered as Christians (ideologically), with Jewish blood (to whatever component they have).
A Christian who has 25% Jewish blood - I regard as a 25% cousin of mine (as we are by blood - all Ashkenazi are at the relation of cousins), who is following a different religion.
Of Sharansky, I am not a great fan. But the decision is not of Sharansky.
By the way, I would be interested what you think of people like Avigdor Eskin.
Avigdor Eskin is 50% Jewish (from his father - his mother is a Ukrainian non-Jewish). But somehow he is the leading Kahanist in the Russian-speaking world.
--- End quote ---
You are totally wrong about everything & again I tell you that you would not know an authentic Jewish concept if it hit you in the face.
Furthermore you are lying about Avigdor Eskin both his parents are Jews & I am certain that he is more Jewish than you are.
You make wild statements without any sources or proof.
dimitry:
--- Quote from: ChabadKahanist on October 17, 2014, 02:42:49 AM ---You are totally wrong about everything & again I tell you that you would not know an authentic Jewish concept if it hit you in the face.
--- End quote ---
You know that you are wrong, otherwise you would be able to argue for your points, instead of resorting to ad hominem attacks.
--- Quote ---Furthermore you are lying about Avigdor Eskin both his parents are Jews
--- End quote ---
His mother is not Jewish. Her family was even persecuted under Stalin for Ukrainian nationalism.
It's possible that he has had a conversion after he came to Israel. But he certainly was not born as 'halachically Jewish', although his father was Jewish.
--- Quote ---& I am certain that he is more Jewish than you are.
You make wild statements without any sources or proof.
--- End quote ---
No, once again - I am Jewish from my maternal grandmother. I am Jewish from any point of view: Halacha, Law of Return, and in terms of having some real Jewish ancestry that would trace genetically to Israel.
Eskin father is Jewish, but his maternal grandmother was not Jewish, so according halacha he was not born Jewish. Since those days, he perhaps had a conversion, although he hasn't talked about it. I don't care either way, and view him as 50% Jewish and also Jewish nationalist.
Sveta:
Sad how some people forget how 100% Jewish righteous gerim are.
Who would dare stand in front of Ruth, the great grandmother of King David (and ancestress of the future Moshiach) and tell her the things I read in this thread about people who honestly turn to Hashem and join Israel.
You talk about genetics? What about genetics? I see all kinds of Jews, gerim, born Jews. Persian, Ashkenazi, Sephardic, Mizrachi. Some observant some not. I have seem gerim go through an entire process of converting only to go back to their old ways and I see others who do an entire conversion process and are most observant people ever. Serious people who love Hashem and Torah all while you get Jews like Adam Sandler who publicly talks about how he loves bacon. You talk to us about the importance of "genetics"?
Adam Sandler is "genetically Jewish" isn't he? Is he better than Ruth just because he was born Jewish? Is he better than someone who does an entire year or two of a conversion process just because he just happened to have a Jewish mother? What about all the "genetically Jewish" celebrities who intermarry and desecrate Shabbos. Yes, I see genetics are really important.
Do you know who Onkelos was? He was a GENIUS and a convert! What about Rabbi Akiva? He descended from converts and is one of the greatest scholars in Judaism.
Obviously doing a conversion does not turn someone's DNA Semitic BUT it does mean someone is 100% Jewish with a Jewish Neshama. The body is just a vessel for the soul. In Shamayim the neshama of every Jew is the same, whether their body converted or had a Jewish mother. Giyur has existed for a long time, it is by no means some magic fake ritual but an actual real process.
Binyamin Yisrael:
Adam Sandler is a self-hating Jew. The only thing I know about him is his stupid so-called "Hanukkah" song where he sings about 2 "half Jews" being a fine looking Jew. I remember my sister bought his CD when we were kids and then when my dad heard the other songs where he was just saying curse words, he broke the CD but he gave my sister back the money that it cost.
Of course if Sandler and all the Deform Jews knew what Hanukkah was about, they would hate the holiday. The next major Jewish holiday is Hanukkah. It's time to teach people the Dvar Torah of Rabbi Kahane "Down With Hanukkah". His Yahrzeit is coming up on 18 Cheshvan (November 11). November 11 this year marks 10 years to the passing of the Arab fag, Arafat, YM"S!
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