Israel > Save Israel
Do they want Jews make Aliyah?
ChabadKahanist:
--- Quote from: dimitry on October 17, 2014, 10:21:32 PM --- You know that you are wrong, otherwise you would be able to argue for your points, instead of resorting to ad hominem attacks. His mother is not Jewish. Her family was even persecuted under Stalin for Ukrainian nationalism.
It's possible that he has had a conversion after he came to Israel. But he certainly was not born as 'halachically Jewish', although his father was Jewish.
No, once again - I am Jewish from my maternal grandmother. I am Jewish from any point of view: Halacha, Law of Return, and in terms of having some real Jewish ancestry that would trace genetically to Israel.
Eskin father is Jewish, but his maternal grandmother was not Jewish, so according halacha he was not born Jewish. Since those days, he perhaps had a conversion, although he hasn't talked about it. I don't care either way, and view him as 50% Jewish and also Jewish nationalist.
--- End quote ---
I did in fact argue my points & the fact that you are attacking everything that is Autrhentic Judaism is proof.
If indeed you are a Jew which I doubt you are JINO (Jew In Name Only) at best a Hellenist of the highest order.
You claim that Eskin's mother was not Jewish without any proof.
We all know that Avigdor Eskin is Jewish & is a halachic Jew.
You viciously slander Chaim who did more in one day for Jews than you ever will in your entire life!!!
Your gibberish about genetics & half Jews & quarter Jews comes right from Hitler & the Nazi Party.
How about sticking the the authentic Jewish definition of what is a Jew namely born of a Jewish mother or converted according to halacha?
Because if indeed you are a Jew you are a self-hating Jew who holds by Nazi definitions of what a Jew is rather than authentic Jewish ones!!!!
Go find yourself a rabbi, a real rabbi......AN ORTHODOX RABBI & & find out what being a Jew & Judaism really is!!!!!
dimitry:
--- Quote from: IsraeliHeart on October 18, 2014, 11:43:01 PM ---Sad how some people forget how 100% Jewish righteous gerim are.
Who would dare stand in front of Ruth, the great grandmother of King David (and ancestress of the future Moshiach) and tell her the things I read in this thread about people who honestly turn to Hashem and join Israel.
You talk about genetics? What about genetics? I see all kinds of Jews, gerim, born Jews. Persian, Ashkenazi, Sephardic, Mizrachi. Some observant some not. I have seem gerim go through an entire process of converting only to go back to their old ways and I see others who do an entire conversion process and are most observant people ever. Serious people who love Hashem and Torah all while you get Jews like Adam Sandler who publicly talks about how he loves bacon. You talk to us about the importance of "genetics"?
Adam Sandler is "genetically Jewish" isn't he? Is he better than Ruth just because he was born Jewish? Is he better than someone who does an entire year or two of a conversion process just because he just happened to have a Jewish mother? What about all the "genetically Jewish" celebrities who intermarry and desecrate Shabbos. Yes, I see genetics are really important.
Do you know who Onkelos was? He was a GENIUS and a convert! What about Rabbi Akiva? He descended from converts and is one of the greatest scholars in Judaism.
Obviously doing a conversion does not turn someone's DNA Semitic BUT it does mean someone is 100% Jewish with a Jewish Neshama. The body is just a vessel for the soul. In Shamayim the neshama of every Jew is the same, whether their body converted or had a Jewish mother. Giyur has existed for a long time, it is by no means some magic fake ritual but an actual real process.
--- End quote ---
If you want to talk about figures from Ancient Israel - according to the views on here, most of the Ancient Israelis wouldn't count as Jewish. Since in Ancient Israel, Jewish descent was traced patrilinealy, and taking foreign wives was common. The children of such families, were treated as Jewish if the father was Jewish - but not vice-versa.
Of course both these views are illogical, and that's why the correct view is that neither patrilineal or matrilineal descent should take precedence.
I don't have anything against converts - but it becomes ridiculous when we have people on here claiming that Russian Jews shouldn't be allowed in Israel, because they have intermarried. While at the same time, they would accept to Israel converts who have 0% descent from Israel and a spouse with 0% descent from Israel.
(If the convert has a spouse with Jewish descent, then they should of course be allowed to repatriate to Israel - but first they should have such a spouse, and therefore a family with Jewish descent)
The whole point of Zionism is to return to our homeland, and if are ancestors were not Ancient Israelis, then we lose our legitimacy to live in Israel. This is why the anti-semites claim that we are 'converted Khazars', etc - in order to undermine this legitimacy. I have a liberal view on the right of return, that people with 25% Jewish descent should be allowed, and to have 100% equal rights when in Israel.
--- Quote from: IsraeliHeart on October 18, 2014, 11:43:01 PM ---
Adam Sandler is "genetically Jewish" isn't he? Is he better than Ruth just because he was born Jewish? Is he better than someone who does an entire year or two of a conversion process just because he just happened to have a Jewish mother? What about all the "genetically Jewish" celebrities who intermarry and desecrate Shabbos. Yes, I see genetics are really important.
--- End quote ---
I don't give a damn if they are better or worse people.
The people who have some descent from Israel (such as Adam Sandler) are the people who should have the most right to move to Israel, since we are the ones returning to our homeland.
Yes, genetics are important, since the reason we are in Israel is because it is our homeland (where our ancestors lived, which has been proved by genetic studies which show that Jews originate in Ancient Israel).
People who are half Jewish and people who are quarter Jewish, have a right to Israel, since their ancestors lived here. End of story.
And converts too, but after they have a spouse with Jewish descent and therefore a family who is returning to their homeland.
--- Quote from: ChabadKahanist on October 19, 2014, 01:10:34 AM ---I did in fact argue my points & the fact that you are attacking everything that is Autrhentic Judaism is proof.
If indeed you are a Jew which I doubt you are JINO (Jew In Name Only) at best a Hellenist of the highest order.
You claim that Eskin's mother was not Jewish without any proof.
--- End quote ---
Everyone knows that Eskin is half-Jewish. I don't understand why you are even arguing about this. He is typical kind of person you normally write racist comments against. His father was Jewish and his mother was a non-Jewish Ukrainian woman. He immigrated to Israel, and he has also converted to halachic status according to some sources.
In Russian-language, you could use a translator:
http://www.spectr.org/2001/034/levi.htm
--- Quote from: ChabadKahanist on October 19, 2014, 01:10:34 AM ---!
Your gibberish about genetics & half Jews & quarter Jews comes right from Hitler & the Nazi Party.
How about sticking the the authentic Jewish definition of what is a Jew namely born of a Jewish mother or converted according to halacha?
Because if indeed you are a Jew you are a self-hating Jew who holds by Nazi definitions of what a Jew is rather than authentic Jewish ones!!!!
Go find yourself a rabbi, a real rabbi......AN ORTHODOX RABBI & & find out what being a Jew & Judaism really is!!!!!
--- End quote ---
Being half-Jewish and quarter-Jewish has nothing to do with Hitler and the Nazi party. It is a basic reality, basic logic, and it is science as well.
Just as with any other ethnicity on earth, a person who has one Jewish parent and one non-Jewish parent is half-Jewish.
Equally a person with one Chinese parent and one non-Chinese parent, is half-Chinese.
A person with one Eskimo parent and one non-Eskimo parent is half-Eskimo.
A mule is half a horse and half a donkey.
Now maybe you want to reject logic and science as 'Hellenism', in which case perhaps you shouldn't be on a computer either, since computers are built using logic.
The only ones who are copying Hitler on this forum, are people who are racist against Russian olim. The community suffered huge discrimination from Hitler, then under Soviet sphere, and finally (even in Israel) from people such as on this forum, because half of our community had intermarried before coming to Israel.
Binyamin Yisrael:
There is not a single person in the World that is "half Jewish". Can someone be "half Christian" or "half Muslim"? What you say is like the self-hating Jews that intermarry and give their kids a brit milah and also baptize them. In such cases where the mother is Jewish, the soul of such a baby suffers from being abused by such parents.
dimitry:
--- Quote from: Binyamin Yisrael on October 22, 2014, 09:51:28 PM ---There is not a single person in the World that is "half Jewish". Can someone be "half Christian" or "half Muslim"? What you say is like the self-hating Jews that intermarry and give their kids a brit milah and also baptize them. In such cases where the mother is Jewish, the soul of such a baby suffers from being abused by such parents.
--- End quote ---
There are millions of people who are half-Jewish, and quarter Jewish. This is reality whether you like it or not. And for me, all are cousins and I will fight to defend them.
And comparing us to Muslims and Christians? Unlike Muslims and Christians - we are a nationality, tribe and ethnicity.
To be Muslim or Christian, is just to belong to a superficial ideology - Christians and Muslims are like being a communist or a Democrat.
Whereas Jews, it is a family - we are genuine descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. These people were actual ancestors.
ChabadKahanist:
--- Quote from: dimitry on October 22, 2014, 10:10:45 PM ---There are millions of people who are half-Jewish, and quarter Jewish. This is reality whether you like it or not. And for me, all are cousins and I will fight to defend them.
And comparing us to Muslims and Christians? Unlike Muslims and Christians - we are a nationality, tribe and ethnicity.
To be Muslim or Christian, is just to belong to a superficial ideology - Christians and Muslims are like being a communist or a Democrat.
Whereas Jews, it is a family - we are genuine descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. These people were actual ancestors.
--- End quote ---
Again you have failed to show your point of view from any authentic Jewish sources.
Don't quote us nazi sources for defining a Jew becaue that is exactly what you are doing.
No Jewish source says this.
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