Author Topic: How all religion is created - for Jew and Gentile  (Read 5177 times)

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Offline cgpb

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How all religion is created - for Jew and Gentile
« on: October 07, 2014, 01:41:33 PM »
How all religion is created - for Jew and Gentile

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From the time the true knowledge and relationship of God had been lost, every culture and civilization in all human history no matter how old or new, has developed some form of religious practice in order to try and satisfy the elusive vacuum in the human soul crying out for reason, purpose and significance. All religions are the result of mankind’s search and communication with the  Supreme Being.

All religions are caused by 3 mechanisms. The mechanisms are 3 and the same only appearing under different names.

These mechanisms occur:
1.   Through the observance of nature
2.   Through a founder
3.   Through subdivision

Lets examine each one in turn:

Mechanism 1 -Through the observance of natural events:
By being exposed to the qualities of God through His Creation, mankind developed  some understanding of the ways of God and applied this to a form of worship,  resulting  in all nature religions and mythologies. This is especially the case in cultures or civilizations where no formal religion was introduced, resulting in the worship of nature gods.

This mechanism is based on the following pattern:

The religion /mythology/or philosophy is derived from the human imagination, the human imagination is derived from observing the facts of nature, and the facts of nature are derived from her creator GOD.

This mechanism is repeated in all cultures throughout history only appearing under the guise of different names. Here are a few examples.
The Greek god of the sea was Poseidon. The Roman equivalent was Neptune. The Egyptians had Yam whilst the Hindus had Varuna. Likewise different names of gods were applied for different purposes. Despite the many gods they worshipped, they all had the ability to reason that some other god had to be “supreme and ruler” over all the other gods. Hence a Zeus, a Jupiter, an Amun or a Brahman.

All belief systems resulting from this first mechanism reinforce what God has already put in nature. The belief patterns of such religions are in nature because they were there first in God-The Creator. There are many patterns in nature that display the invisible and eternal power of God.

Mechanism 2) Through a founder: 

 This second mechanism initiates religions whether historic or new.
a)Someone (usually the founder) claims to have received a “divine revelation” or a visitation by a “majestic being” like an (‘angel’) and claims they were commanded to recite, or write down what they’ve heard or seen and pass on these visions, teachings or messages, thus initiating a religion. E,g Muhammed was the founder of Islam , Joseph Smith of Mormonism and Israel ben Eliezar founded Hasidic Judaism.

3) Through subdivision
This happens through one or a combination of the following ways.

a.   Through the divergence, branching off, breaking away or rebellion from an existing religion usually due to disagreement or disproval over doctrine, or, “new revelation”. For example Buddhism, Sikhism, and Jainism have all branched off from Hinduism. As a result of this mechanism, we also have today the main branches of Judaism, namely, Orthodox, Reform, Conservative and Reconstructionist, which all branched off from the Pharisee movement.

b.   Through the combining, mingling, or blending of existing religions to develop a new one. For e.g. Sikhism combines elements of Hinduism with Islam. Conservative Judaism is a mixture of Reform and Orthodox. 

c.   Further splits can occur within mechanism i and ii resulting into even smaller sects or denominations. For example  Reconstructionist Judaism began as a liberal movement within conservative Judaism and then formally separated. Classical reform Judaism, humanistic Judaism,  Neolog Judaism , Jewish renewal, and Jewish science are other examples of further splits from previous sects.

d.   Through a revival of older religions under new names. Many so called “new” religions are in fact old, only masquerading under a new name.
Eg kabbalah is just another form of Greek Gnosticism at a later date as both groups believed that only a select few were given deeper understanding or knowledge.

Also all religions, mythologies, belief systems etc… display mans ability to reason so that in the formation of any religion, one needs to have knowledge and understanding on:

a) The nature of God (thus resulting in Monotheism, polytheism, henotheism and all the other ….isms ).
 b) The way of salvation which evidently shows that man understands he has need of this.
 c) The way in which one comes to the knowledge of God.
 d) Eternity and the afterlife.
 e) Morality.

It is these components that produce doctrine in any religion. And the fact that religions differ in the way of these components, shows the contradictory nature between religions because man is subject to deception, delusion, wickedness and misinterpretation. Therefore, the true way to God cannot be initiated by man but only by God.

As a result of the above 3 mechanisms, we now have the thousands of religions that exist around the world today. Once these 3 mechanisms are understood, one doesn’t need to study the world’s religions in order to seek truth, since the mechanisms are 3 and the same and are repeated in all cultures throughout human history only under the guise of different names.

The true knowledge of God was given through the Judeo -Christian faith, however when the Kingdom of God isn't understood as God intended through His Holy Word, then adherents of these 2 religions subject themselves to just another religion and not the Kingdom - hence the many denominations that exist even within these 2 religious groups.


Offline edu

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Re: How all religion is created - for Jew and Gentile
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2014, 02:11:17 PM »
For a key difference between classic Judaism and all the rest see:
http://www.simpletoremember.com/media/a/rational-judaism/
A Rational Approach To The Divine Origin of Judaism (video)
 Video by Rabbi Lawrence Kelemen
http://www.youtube.com/embed/PEg_Oys4NkA?rel=0

Offline muman613

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Re: How all religion is created - for Jew and Gentile
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2014, 05:38:48 PM »
Boy, seems like we are attracting a bunch of heretics lately.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: How all religion is created - for Jew and Gentile
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2014, 05:40:21 PM »
Judaism posits an event that no other religion can or ever will posit... The revelation at Sinai was observed by 2Million Israelites...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: How all religion is created - for Jew and Gentile
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2014, 07:57:24 PM »
Boy, seems like we are attracting a bunch of heretics lately.
Why is he a heretic? It is an odd first post though. ..
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: How all religion is created - for Jew and Gentile
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2014, 08:00:23 PM »
Judaism posits an event that no other religion can or ever will posit... The revelation at Sinai was observed by 2Million Israelites...
The Christians believe that too... they are just miss lead later on...
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline muman613

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Re: How all religion is created - for Jew and Gentile
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2014, 08:02:51 PM »
Why is he a heretic? It is an odd first post though. ..

The piece is certainly not according to Jewish belief. Denying the written and the oral Torah is considered heresy according to Jewish law. See the Rambam which I have posted numerous times.

Worshiping nature is considered avodah zarah and a Jew is prohibited from it.

The other religions which have attempted to modify what the Torah says is also considered heresy according to Rambam..
.
http://www.torah.org/learning/mlife/LORch3-8d.html

Quote
"There are three [types of] deniers of the Torah.

(1) One who says the Torah is not from G-d. Even if he claims Moses composed a single verse or single word [of the Torah] on his own, he is [considered] a denier of the Torah.

(2) So too one who denies [the Torah's] explanation, namely the Oral Torah, or he rejects its bearers (lit., 'its tellers') as [did] Tzaddok and Bysos.

(3) One who says the Creator exchanged one commandment with another one, and that this Torah has already become annulled -- even though it was from G-d, such as [believe] the Christians and the 'Hagarites' (i.e., Muslims).
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: How all religion is created - for Jew and Gentile
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2014, 08:09:46 PM »
I rea d this earlier. .. so I may be missing something. Where is he denying Torah?
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline muman613

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Re: How all religion is created - for Jew and Gentile
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2014, 08:23:19 PM »
More on Rambam from Mishne Torah, Hilchos Teshuva:


http://www.shemayisrael.com/rabbiforsythe/personalgrowth/tshuva.htm

6. These are those who have no portion in the world to come, who are cut off, eternally lost and judged according to the enormity of their evil and sins, dead forever and for eternity: heretics, those who deny G-d; those who deny prophesy or G-d's omniscience; those who deny or replace Torah; deny resurrection of the dead, coming of the redeemer [Mashiach]; rebellion against or abandoning Torah; those who cause the public to sin; those who separate from the ways of the Torah community; those who sin with a high hand and impudent attitude in front of other people, like Yehoyakim; those who inform or turn a Jew in to non-Jewish authorities without advance Torah-sanctioned permission; those who frighten a community without Torah-sanction and purpose; murderers; speakers of loshon hora (slander, gossip, defamation - even if the harmful speech was true); and one who undoes his circumcision.

7. There are five who are called minim (heretics, those who deny G-d). The one who says that there is no G-d or that the world has no Leader. The one who says that the world has a leader but there are two or more [i.e. not one]. The one who says that there is One Ruler but that He has a body or a form. The one who says that He is not the First Cause and the Rock Of The Universe alone. The one who worships any idol, star, constellation, ideology or anything besides G-d, or to be any intermediary between any human being and the Master of the universe. All of these five are guilty of being a heretic.

8. There are three who are called apikorsus (those who deny prophesy or G-d's omniscience). Those who say that there is no prophesy at all and that there is no knowledge that reached from the Creator to the heart of man. Anyone who contradicts the prophesy of Moshe our Rabbi. The one who says that the creator does not know the deeds of human beings. All three of these are guilty of being an apikorus. There are three kinds of people who are deniers or replacers of Torah. The one who says that the Torah is not from Hashem, even one verse, even one word. Or if he said that Moshe said on his own [and not from prophesy from G-d], this is one who denies Torah. Likewise, anyone who denies [the Torah's] explanation, being the Oral Torah; anyone who contradicts its instructors; as, for example, Tzadok and Baitus did. The one who says that the Creator exchanged one commandment for a second commandment and this nullified or replaced the first unit of Torah, even though the "first Torah" was from Hashem, for example Christians or Moslems, all of these are deniers of Torah.

9. There are two categories of Jew who are called those who rebel against or abandon Torah [moraid, mumar, meshumad - different terms in different manuscripts; in any event, Rambam is about to clearly define exactly what he means]. The mumar le'avaira achas [one who removes one commandment to "legitimize," in his mind, violation of the one commandment to permit one sin] and mumar lekol haTorah kula [one who removes the entire Torah to "legitimize," in his mind, violation of all of the commandments, to permit any and all sins]. One who abandons one commandment to permit one specific sin to himself is one who determines in his mind to do a given sin intentionally and to be habituated in it and has become well known for it. This even includes relatively light transgressions, such as being characterized as continually wearing shatnez [a garment containing wool and linen, Deuteronomy 22:11] or lihakif pe'ah [he cuts the hair at the corner of his head, Leviticus 19:27]; so that it is as if he nullified the particular commandment out of the world, as far as he is concerned. He is a "mumar" with respect to that thing, if he did it with intent to spite the Torah. A mumar lekol haTorah kula [is one who abandons the entire Torah]. For example, those who pursue idolatry or who convert to another religion. This might happen at a time that there is decree of legislation [demanding abandonment of Judaism for another religion] and then the Jew joins them [if there is no decree, moving to another religion is all the more unjustifiable because there is no jeopardy contributing to the motive]; and the Jew says, "What profit do I have to cling to Israel? for they are downtrodden and chased after; it is better for me to leave the Torah and to cling to these other people because they have more power." One who does the likes of this is an apostate against the entire Torah.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: How all religion is created - for Jew and Gentile
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2014, 08:26:11 PM »
Ephraim,

By suggesting that some other 'prophet' had a vision which nullified the Torah is a heretical thing to suggest:

Quote

a)Someone (usually the founder) claims to have received a “divine revelation” or a visitation by a “majestic being” like an (‘angel’) and claims they were commanded to recite, or write down what they’ve heard or seen and pass on these visions, teachings or messages, thus initiating a religion. E,g Muhammed was the founder of Islam , Joseph Smith of Mormonism and Israel ben Eliezar founded Hasidic Judaism.


I don't know if the poster believes in any of these heretical beliefs, but I suspect that the person is one who holds all religions as being valid.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: How all religion is created - for Jew and Gentile
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2014, 08:33:46 PM »
Oh okay. I thought it was about how people can end up going different directions. But! I do believe in the end the mislead will end up in the right place. If they are not evil.


Also I believe G-d is everything. And in everything. Nature is G-d.
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: How all religion is created - for Jew and Gentile
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2014, 09:15:43 PM »
The Ba'al Shem Tov and Divine Providence:
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline muman613

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Re: How all religion is created - for Jew and Gentile
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2014, 09:25:11 PM »
Oh okay. I thought it was about how people can end up going different directions. But! I do believe in the end the mislead will end up in the right place. If they are not evil.


Also I believe G-d is everything. And in everything. Nature is G-d.

Yes there is the belief that Hashem is in everything in creation, but we cannot say that Hashem is THIS. We can say what he is not and we can describe him through his relationship with us...

Through the two names of Hashem used in the Torah, the 4-letter name and Elokim, the name Elokim relates to his force of nature.

But Rambam discusses how belief in the power of the stars and planets leads to idolatry.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: How all religion is created - for Jew and Gentile
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2014, 09:26:26 PM »
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/638043/jewish/Why-is-Gd-Called-Elokim.htm

Question

I understand that the Tetragrammaton is the G‑d's true name. So why is G‑d also referred to in the Torah as "Elokim"? Isn't one name enough?


Response

When Abraham started off, people understood that there is one original G‑d who is the essence of being. This is what we refer to with the four-letter name, the Tetragrammaton, whose code name in Kabbalah is "Havaya." That name can only be written in singular form. In fact, it is basically a conjugation of the verb "to be."

They knew of this concept of Havaya, but they considered it far too lofty an idea, seemingly inaccessible and irrelevant to their lives. Instead, they connected to the many forces of nature. They called these "Elohim"—meaning, "mighty forces."

Abraham came along and said, "You guys got it all wrong. Havaya is Elohim! It's all one! He is the essence of being and He is all the forces of nature in one big package!"

That's why, as the Biblical commentator Baal HaTurim points out, the Hebrew letters in the name Elohim have the same gematria (numerical value) as "haTeva"—which means the natural order.

For more on the relation of these two names of G‑d, see Shaar HaYichud V'ha-Emunah by Rabbi Schneur Zalman of Liadi. You can find that here.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: How all religion is created - for Jew and Gentile
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2014, 09:27:53 PM »
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/912359/jewish/Avodah-Kochavim-Chapter-One.htm

Halacha 1

During the times of Enosh, mankind made a great mistake, and the wise men of that generation gave thoughtless counsel. Enosh himself was one of those who erred.

Their mistake was as follows: They said God created stars and spheres with which to control the world. He placed them on high and treated them with honor, making them servants who minister before Him. Accordingly, it is fitting to praise and glorify them and to treat them with honor. [They perceived] this to be the will of God, blessed be He, that they magnify and honor those whom He magnified and honored, just as a king desires that the servants who stand before him be honored. Indeed, doing so is an expression of honor to the king.

After conceiving of this notion, they began to construct temples to the stars and offer sacrifices to them. They would praise and glorify them with words, and prostrate themselves before them, because by doing so, they would - according to their false conception - be fulfilling the will of God.

This was the essence of the worship of false gods, and this was the rationale of those who worshiped them. They would not say that there is no other god except for this star.

This message was conveyed by Jeremiah, who declared (10:7-8): "Who will not fear You, King of the nations, for to You it is fitting. Among all the wise men of the nations and in all their kingdoms, there is none like You. They have one foolish and senseless [notion. They conceive of their] empty teachings as wood;" i.e., all know that You alone are God. Their foolish error consists of conceiving of this emptiness as Your will.

Halacha 2

After many years passed, there arose people - false prophets - who told [their nations] that God had commanded them to say: Serve this star - or all the stars - sacrifice to it, offer libations to it, build a temple for it and make an image of it so that all people - including the women, the children, and the common people - could bow to it.

He would inform them of a form that he had conceived, and tell them that this is the image of the particular star, claiming that this was revealed to him in a prophetic vision. In this manner, the people began to make images in temples, under trees, and on the tops of mountains and hills.

People would gather together and bow down to them and the [false prophets] would say: This image is the source of benefit or harm. It is appropriate to serve it and fear it. Their priests would tell them: This service will enable you to multiply and be successful. Do this and this, or do not do this or this.

Subsequently, other deceivers arose and declared that a specific star, sphere, or angel had spoken to them and commanded them: Serve me in this manner. He would then relate a mode of service [telling them:] Do this, do not do this.

Thus, these practices spread throughout the world. People would serve images with strange practices - one more distorted than the other - offer sacrifices to them, and bow down to them. As the years passed, [God's] glorious and awesome name was forgotten by the entire population. [It was no longer part of] their speech or thought, and they no longer knew Him. Thus, all the common people, the women, and the children would know only the image of wood or stone and the temples of stone to which they were trained from their childhood to bow down and serve, and in whose name they swore.

The wise men among them would think that there is no God other than the stars and spheres for whose sake, and in resemblance of which, they had made these images. The Eternal Rock was not recognized or known by anyone in the world, with the exception of a [few] individuals: for example, Chanoch, Metushelach, Noach, Shem, and Ever. The world continued in this fashion until the pillar of the world - the Patriarch Abraham - was born.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline cgpb

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Re: How all religion is created - for Jew and Gentile
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2014, 03:48:31 PM »

As i stated in my earlier post, "the true knowledge of God was given through the Judeo -Christian faith, however when the Kingdom of God isn't understood as God intended through His Holy Word, then adherents of these 2 religions subject themselves to just another religion and not the Kingdom as God intended- hence the many denominations that exist even within these 2 religious groups

This is why my next post is "How Israel lost the Kingdom of God and developed into just another religious system"

Offline edu

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Re: How all religion is created - for Jew and Gentile
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2014, 08:25:19 AM »
My rebuttal to  cgpb is listed within the 2nd topic brought up by cgpb